Topic: Credit cards for teachers in Thailand?

[hero]

As far as I'm aware, plenty of people do get credit cards without paying deposits.  Some banks do, some banks don't - as with many things here I think it's a case of "depends on the time, place and person you deal with"!

[RobRoy]

While I've never tried to apply for a credit card, I know several farangs that have tried...one is married to a Thai with a nice bank balance and they turned him down....

[los_teacher]

Just a note on the credit card thing

Bangkok Bank:  Secured Credit Cards only for foreigners.  They used to give regular cards to foreigners about 2 years ago, but have since changed the policy.

Siam Commercial Bank:  Credit Cards to foreigners with income exceeding 100,000 bt per month.  There is a clause that allows them to issue cards to foreigners with lower salaries if their place of employment directly deposits salary to an SCB branch.  And while this is a stated policy it doesn't always bear out in reality.  My school deposits my salary to my account at SCB, but I was denied a card a couple of weeks ago, and yet another teacher was approved just a week earlier.  I write this off as incompetence and ignorance of bank employees.

[hero]

The Bangkok Bank and Ayudhya Bank certainly have this policy and state that it is government policy (the dreaded 'regulation'). Don't know about the other ones but if you know of an example, please do let me know, I am getting fed up of using the overseas ones.

Two current colleagues have them.  One is with TMB and the other (the rather disappointing) Amex credit card.  Both are teachers.

I applied when the Mrs was preggers and turned down due to Siam Commercial Bank's policy - I needed to earn substantially more than I was to meet their requirements.

Standard Chartered Bank (I worked there quite a lot at one stage and had hypothetical discussions with staff ranging from tellers to branch mangers) definitely issue credit cards to foreigners, although I believe they have a minimum salary requirement.

I have discussed this many times in passing and seen it discussed umpteen times on forums.  I have never ever heard of any bank requesting that a deposit is made to be borrowed against - this would be ridiculous and pointless, I find it hard to believe quite frankly!  Although it definitely sounds like something a Thai bank teller might come out with if they weren't sure of the correct procedures!

The people I have met with credit cards are often disbelieving that others find it a problem and those who have had problems are disbelieving of those with cards IME - this seems to imply that the rules are often unclear and more likely open to interpretation on any given day.

A credit card doesn't really interest me to be honest, I had nothing but dramas with them back home.  The majority of people I hear discussing the "unfairness" of Thailand and how they can't get credit cards here have never called or visited a bank to inquire about a credit card.  It doesn't take a genius to work out that the transient nature of the foreign teaching profession makes us a poor credit risk as a group and that's how banks operate generally - if the risk falls outside their accepted levels they turn you down.

Compare a guy I know very well who works for a large Singaporean company in Phuket.  He earns well in excess of 200k Bt and walked into a bank one afternoon and left an hour later with a credit card with a half million limit!  Clearly they didn't consider him a risk!

Most guys I have met who have wanted credit cards have needed them due to their inability to manage their personal finances, exactly the type of people who would borrow 100k from a bank and disappear back home or on to a different country without giving it a thought - the same people who moan about the unfairness of Thai regulations.  As far as I know there isn't a law that says "foreigners can't have Thai credit cards" - all banks make the rules for themselves, here just as anywhere else in the world.

I might feel like I would be a good credit risk if I was married with family here, had had a WP for 3 or 4 consecutive years and had a few quid stashed away in the bank.  If I was in that situation I am pretty confident I could get a credit card here just as anywhere else!

I did try and telephone Bangkok Bank a moment ago to ask a few questions - but I was on hold for ages and I'm off to play golf soon and have a few things to do first!

[hero]

los_teacher - you seem to nicely sum up what I was saying about how banks make their own rules and the staff on any given day decide how to interpret them!!!!

You also seem to back up the earlier information about security required for a BBL loan, surely they don't mean a cash deposit - that would be ridiculous.  I'm guessing they would want to secure it against some property or asset?

[hero]

Well, it's in Risk Analysis 101 - you can't possible assess every potential risk on its merits.  We are grouped together by our foreigner status and level of income.  For every one with good intentions there need only be 1.01 self-interested bastard only interested in borrowing a few quid for a few extra beers/whores before heading home without settling the tab and that makes us a bad risk.

Bewildered, I don't believe anyone with cash to invest here would have any probs getting a credit card if they needed one, would they?

[hero]

This may be your experience but there are many many owners of gold and platinum cards who could rightly take offence at anyone extending that experience across the whole population.

Please note - as qualified in my next post, I don't believe those in higher income brackets suffer like those of us in lower brackets.

[hero]

Yes indeed, and I can understand it completely, however I am not itinerant, neither is los_teacher by the sound of it (bought a car, getting married , good job etc etc), nor are many others who have been denied what is a reasonably important financial facility everywhere in the world. of course a less charitable soul than I would suggest the Thai want to make sure that if anyone does the thieving it is the Thai! And it usually is.

Yes, please refer to Risk Analysis 101!  I believe that you would find that the situation in any other country would be comparable!

[los_teacher]

As unbelievable as it sounds Bangkok Bank will only give credit cards to foreigners with a secure deposit.  If you wish to have a 60,000 bt limit they require 60,000 bt in the bank and they will place a hold on that money, preventing you from withdrawing it.  To make things worse, they will charge you interest if you don't pay the balance back every month.  Now why on earth would I want to pay a bank interest on my own money?   Absolutely ridiculous.

The reason I want a credit card is for internet purchases, airplane tickets, and as an emergency safety net.  I just bought a new truck and plan to explore the less accessible parts of Thailand and would feel more comfortable with a credit card in my posession.  Medical emergencies are another good reason.  I was once turned away from a hospital in an emergency situation because they wanted 25,000 bt up front.  It was the day before payday and i didn't have it.  As a result I have permanent damage to a finger, significant nerve damage and mobility issues because I couldn't get the care in the proper timeframe.  And this was at a hospital that had an arrangement to serve teachers at the school I was working for at the time.   

It is also interesting to note that I was able to take a new car loan in excess of 400,000 bt at the end of last year, but couldn't get a credit card with a 40,000 bt limit last week.  But then again TIT.  I figure I'll go re-apply in a couple weeks and there is a decent chance it will be approved...

[los_teacher]

Hospitals in USA are required to treat any individual who walks into an emergency room whether they have money or not. 

Hospitals will deny service to patients without funds or insurance if it not an emergency situation. 

There are certain hospitals in nearly every major city that will up help people with little or no money.  Usually these will be University Hospitals or other Hospitals with substantial government funding.  Because of the appalling number of individuals in USA who have no insurance and can't afford it, most hospitals have a budget that allows them to write off part or all of an indigent person's medical costs.

Additionally most major cities have clinics that offer outpatient services on a sliding fee scale that is based on their income and ability to pay.

[Mods-Rockers]

A little knowledge goes a long way as the old maxim states! If you are legally working here and are thus paying taxes and the Thai equivalent of national insurance then you get a nice little card that’s good theoretically for three named hospitals but in reality would allow you to get treatment at just about every government hospital and many private ones as well. This is something that is an entitlement for all Thais but strangely is open also to foreigners. It was a scheme originated by the ex prime minister Mr toxin, possibly his only really goof idea, but that remains to be seen. Whats it called again now? Oh yes that’s it! The 35baht scheme.

Now don’t be thinking that every bit of treatment is going to cost you 35 baht, but emergency treatment, yes it will be just that. And there is theoretically another benefit to the national insurance scheme as I understand it. If after 12 months you lose your job, you are entitled to dole for three months at 50% of your monthly income whilst in work up to a maximum so I have heard of 10k a month. Now I grant you I have never heard of a farang on the dole here, but then again I have also never heard of a farant applying for it and being turned down.

As with many things in this country, general information regarding most things is scarce, and those that should be informing us of what is available often do not know themselves, so we have to keep grubbing up the snippits of info ourselves.

[bomha]

Please pardon me if I step on a few toes, but a credit card is a risk to the guy who carries it in his wallet.  Have you guys not been saddled with cc debt, monthly payments, high interest and fees, late payments, etc.? 

It is too easy for me to say: if you cannot afford to pay cash, do not buy it.  As for medical emergencies, in Thailand I have gotten care first, and then was asked to pay.  Elective surgery, however, required me to prove that I would pay for it.  The Thaksin plan was 30 baht, and the payment has been cancelled.  I believe many teachers are in med insurance plans far better than the 30 baht scheme.  The tenured Thai teachers that I know, go to the same expensive clinic where the rich foreingers go, but they probably don't pay 250 baht per visit.

The credit card is fine if you don't need it.  It is bad if you need it.

[los_teacher]

I agree with your point Bomha.  In general I am a cash and carry kind of guy.  I've had unpleasant experiences with credit cards in the past and am definitely wary of them.  It can take quite a while to clean up that kind of mess.

That being said, there are things that I would like to do that can only be done with a credit card.  Specifically, I wish to rent a car during my trip to USA in April.  Without a credit card this is impossible.  Also internet purchases are impossible without a credit card. 

As far as medical care goes - thanx Mod-Rock for that advice about national insurance - i'll look into it.  It probably doesn't matter now as I have decent coverage from AIA through my school.  But it wouldn't hurt to be double covered, and knowledge is power.

And finally there is security in knowing that a small amount of money will be available for borrowing in case of unexpected emergencies.

Credit cards do have their purpose as long as they are used wisely.

[wordsworth]

I agree with your point Bomha.  In general I am a cash and carry kind of guy.  I've had unpleasant experiences with credit cards in the past and am definitely wary of them.  It can take quite a while to clean up that kind of mess.

That being said, there are things that I would like to do that can only be done with a credit card.  Specifically, I wish to rent a car during my trip to USA in April.  Without a credit card this is impossible.  Also internet purchases are impossible without a credit card. 

As far as medical care goes - thanx Mod-Rock for that advice about national insurance - i'll look into it.  It probably doesn't matter now as I have decent coverage from AIA through my school.  But it wouldn't hurt to be double covered, and knowledge is power.

And finally there is security in knowing that a small amount of money will be available for borrowing in case of unexpected emergencies.

Credit cards do have their purpose as long as they are used wisely.

los_teacher, perhaps you have answered this already but did you pay cash for the car or take out a loan as I did? In my own case the loan was interest-free so it was worth doing that instead of paying cash, but I couldnt get a loan for the car even though I had $100,000 in one account with the bank and 2.5m bt in another. It was 'regulations' that my Thai wife had tio take the lown in her name. Again, it seemed to me to be a wholly racist policy designed to make Johnny Foreigner a 2nd-class citizen.

I had a loan on a truck through a company last year. It wasnt too much hard work getting it. However, i did pay 50% upfront. As far as i know loans are possible as long as you can provide all the legal documents such as work permit etc

[los_teacher]

As I understand it a foreigner with work permit can take a car loan in their name, without a Thai guarantor, as long as they pay more than 25% up front. 

A foreigner with work permit can take out a car loan with 10% up front if they have a Thai guarantor.

[Mods-Rockers]

Yeah you are right Bomha it was 30 baht.

[fortuneguy]

I have a visa and mastercard issued through KTS (the credit card branch of Krung Thai). I didn't need to put a deposit down. I was working as a teacher in a government institution that paid my wages directly in to that bank. Additionally, I held quite substantial amounts in that account. After a year I thought what the hell I'll go in and apply. They wanted a copy of my contract of employment, passport, and banking record (they had that). I was astonished when they awarded me a visa card and some time later I applied and got a mastercard without needing to go through the same process. I can confirm that Bangkok Bank will ask for a deposit of twice the credit limit applied for. I applied to SCB some years ago and again 2 years ago. Despite an outstanding record they declined outright.  This is a totally honest and no bull posting.

[bomha]

I agree with your point Bomha.  In general I am a cash and carry kind of guy.  I've had unpleasant experiences with credit cards in the past and am definitely wary of them.  It can take quite a while to clean up that kind of mess.

That being said, there are things that I would like to do that can only be done with a credit card.  Specifically, I wish to rent a car during my trip to USA in April.  Without a credit card this is impossible.  Also internet purchases are impossible without a credit card. 

As far as medical care goes - thanx Mod-Rock for that advice about national insurance - i'll look into it.  It probably doesn't matter now as I have decent coverage from AIA through my school.  But it wouldn't hurt to be double covered, and knowledge is power.

And finally there is security in knowing that a small amount of money will be available for borrowing in case of unexpected emergencies.

Credit cards do have their purpose as long as they are used wisely.

When I rent a car in the USA, I use a Visa or Mastercard DEBIT card that has the logo, and has a 16 digit serial number.  Works just like a credit card, but it's debit.  I am not sure how the US rental companies would honour a Thai debit card even if it has 16 digits and a well known logo.  My debit card has a Western address; I do not even tell them that I live in some third world country they confuse with "Taiwan."  Until they ask for my driver's license......

[wangsuda]

I tried getting a Tesco card last year. I supplied a copy of my work permit, visa, teacher's license, and a letter from my employer verifying my income (of over 40,000 baht). I was refused a credit card for unspecified reasons.

[Mods-Rockers]

I tried getting a Tesco card last year. I supplied a copy of my work permit, visa, teacher's license, and a letter from my employer verifying my income (of over 40,000 baht). I was refused a credit card for unspecified reasons.

Wang, Have you tried to get a tesco card again? Its often the case, that the deciding officer has had a bad hair day and turns down everything. Sometimes  its a matter of who is making the decision! and more importantly how that person interprets the rules. Its often a case of blind perseverance!

[Krungsri]

I applied for a Central Card a couple of years ago because I wanted the free sandwich maker.  Got the card all right.  Never got the sandwich maker.

[hero]

I don't think lack of provision of credit cards for foreigners really stands up as "racism" LOL.

I guess if it makes you feel better by being bitter then that's fine, me I try and rationalise things around me.  I stand by my assertion that an expat working the UK in my position would not get a credit card in the UK straight away.  It would take time to accumulate points on the credit scoring system.

Obviously it's easy for UK citizens in the UK and easy for Thai citizens in Thailand it would seem to me - that would be the world I suspect.

Anybody with the motivation to visit a few banks here seems to be able to get a credit card in any case .... I wonder what all the fuss is about myself.

Describing what is essentially a trivial issue and one that is laughable more than anything else in that it does really seem to depend on which bank you visit on which particular day as "racism" is just a little bit silly IMO.

[hero]

Ooops - I'm frightened whenever I see people strip my posts down line by line to disagree with me - I have made my points, you disagree - sorry about that

Remember this is a public board - try and continue the debate without making it personal - if you want to personalise it send a PM.  {!}

[hero]

I think the evidence on this thread runs counter to what you are arguing.  Plenty of people have succeeded in getting credit cards anyway.  I have never asked the Bangkok Bank, but most other banks readily hand out credit cards to people who earn a salary over their defined limit.

Would you like me to call round a few for you tomorrow.  If you are earning 80k I bet you could get a credit card tomorrow if you tried.  How many banks have you visited on your quest for a card, two wasn't it - and on the basis of this you appear to be branding the entire Thai banking system "racist".

For the record, the concept of racism refers to an ideology that (genetically speaking) one type of person is superior to another.

Somebody posted above about Kasikorn Bank, I have read elsewhere that they are one of the easier banks to get credit cards from - I suggest you give them a try!  Maybe wait a while, see if anybody else posts on this thread with some information.  That's why I started the thread to be honest - not to indulge the "all Thais are evil brigade"!

[Nemesis]

Asians are racist, get used to it or go somewhere where the locals are less racist.  Take a look at Melee's post over in the TEFLWatch Latin America room for her school. It ain't a problem for foreigners to even get a house financed under a government home loan program in Mexico.

But in the end it ain't about racism. It's about business.

[wordsworth]

Maybe we need a new thread/topic hey guys?
From my experience, I can definitely say that Thais are naturally racist. We had a coloured guy working at my last school and the students were calling him "chocolate man". Dark skin colour is most definitely judged negatively in Thailand. Often as foreigners, we are not aware of how racist Thais are to each other concerning skin colour. By the way, I do not care if other people want to disagree with me on this one because I have witnessed it many times first hand.

Peace

wordsworth

[hero]

Maybe Thais are racist, maybe generalising in such a way is in itself a form of racism.  I don't know really, I just don't see the point in banging on about it.  As Nemesis says, it ain't about to change anytime soon!

[wordsworth]

I am sorry if my last post was going off topic but I thought it was worth mentioning while the issue of racism was being discussed.

Peace

wordsworth

[Speaksoftly]

All of my co-workers who have tried (and tried) have eventually received a credit card from some bank here.  Nothing is consistent, of course.  It helps if you have a few years on your work permit and from what I hear SCB's not the best place to go.

[ajarnnormal]

Racism has been turned over time and time again on this site and the outcome is always the same, Thai's are racist.

Anyway back to the real issue of credit cards. I don't like them and would not have one if the bank gave me a free sandwich maker and the sandwich. I don't like Thai bread anyway it tastes vile, I like good wholeweat or wholemeal bread. I have an account with BB and have a Debit Visa card which allows me to buy things and book hotels, flights etc. Sam note not ect. This card is better for me because at least I know where I am with it money wise.

[Mods-Rockers]

I have to go along with your thinking about credit cards, saying that however I admit I still keep one froma bank back home for those little emergencies. The credit limit is quite high butthe balance is kept within a few pounds of zero to allow the bank to justify my having it. Thus I can still book a flight anywhere at very short notice and pay first or business if needs be!

Credit cards are a risky business if you use them as credit cards, keep one as a charge card and resist temptation and you will be fine.

[anyonefortennis]

I'm with you on this MR, I've got a CC from back home just in case, saying that I got the new card in 05, on it was a number to ring to activate the card, I never got around to doing it and the card expires this year, so whether I could still activate the card I dunno.

CC from any country are a bad idea over here, when I first arrived here 5 years back I heard many horror stories of people who had used their cards in BKK, and for example, a smiling waiter kindly copied the card details and went on a spending spree. I think that was in part to do with the old carbon copy swipe machines, so it may be a wee bit more secure now.

I think debit cards are your best bet.

[ajarnnormal]

I did have a CC from back home but when i used it there was so much extra money taken off like interested and the exchange rate. What I do now is keep some money in my bank back home just in case I need that quick flight home. I do agree with you guys that it is a thing to use only in emergency and maybe a good idea to keep up.

[wordsworth]

I did have a CC from back home but when i used it there was so much extra money taken off like interested and the exchange rate. What I do now is keep some money in my bank back home just in case I need that quick flight home. I do agree with you guys that it is a thing to use only in emergency and maybe a good idea to keep up.

going off topic slightly, everyone should be very careful with their receipts when using ATM's. There has been a lot of horror stories lately concerning people having their credit cards/ATM cards cloned. I have added a couple of links below about this.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=100088

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=100940


Peace

wordsworth

[angryfarang]

Just My twopence worth

I have been here for 7 years and have a

KTC Master 250k
KTC Visa  150K
SCB Visa and Master 100k

No one asks for a deposit, I dont bank with either
I am married to a Thai but she does not work
I had no issues at all

[angryfarang]

Ahriman

Well I started out with KTC, got one card that had its limit steadily increased, at the time i was renting, when I bought my house 50% down and a mortgage with Siam Commercial I got two cards master and visa, that was three years ago, since then my first KTC has been upgraded to Platinum and then got another card out the blu from KTC this time a Master Titanium, I clear my balance most months. Thats all I can say really on it