Topic: The Language - Surathani

[anyonefortennis]

Anybody know owt about The Language in Surathani?

Their website, course details and teachers package look very familiar, almost exactly the same as a HOS member from Surathani.

I could well be barking up the wrong tree, wouldn't be the first time, so I'd like to know if they are as stated on the website, i.e. The Language, established since 2002, or if they are in fact a reincarnation of a HOS school that went AWOL in 2006.

Any teachers out there piling their trade for The Language wanna share some of their experiences?

[Mods-Rockers]

Link please

[anyonefortennis]

here u go;

http://www.thelanguage-thailand.com/

nothing about life experience degrees or helping stranded kittens outta the tops of trees....................so I could be wrong. 

[Mods-Rockers]

Thanks
I suspect that you are not wrong, but time will tell!

[slaxster]

the owner,  is a very honest, straight forward guy.  he runs a "tight ship". i've talked with several teachers from the language.  they seemed happy and i never heard a complaint from any of them. his assistant of 2 or 3 years recently left on good terms.

[anyonefortennis]

Mr. Slaxster.................I did believe you, had little reason to doubt you, until that is I came across this;

Native English Teacher required to teach Grades one to six

The Language is a private language school operating in the South of Thailand that requires a Native English Teacher to join our happily placed team ready to begin training on the 12th of May 2007, teaching various levels from Kindergarten to high school.You would teach the same students every week with small class sizes. The successful applicant would be teaching a minimum of 22 hours per week with optional overtime. The successful applicant would receive

A one year contract.
A basic salary of 22, 000 Baht.
2,000 Baht monthly performance bonus.
300 Baht per hour for overtime.
All one year work permits/visa applied and paid for by The Language.
Free fully furnished/shared accommodation in large houses
A 2,000 Baht housing allowance and full support in finding accommodation (If The Language houses are full)
A two week training period.
Introduction to Suratthani and Thai culture
Free Thai lessons. (Once a week)
Cheap motorcycle rent (subject to availability).
Twenty - Five days paid holiday on a first year contract.
Free unlimited Internet access.
We require a Native speaker from Britain, Canada, Ireland, US, Australia, South Africa or New Zealand with a BA Degree (Others need not apply please), TEFL certified, great enthusiasm and a love for children to join our team.
Please for further information on our school, vacancies and surrounding area look at our website at www.thelanguage-thailand.com
Send your full resume along with two references and a recent photograph to t_language@yahoo.com
School The Language, Government school
Province: Suratthani
Salary Between 20,000 to 30,000 Baht/month
http://www.shoppy.co.il/jobpro/Jobs/?CatID=&page=8&SearchFilter=&JobType=0&ProvinceId=0&SalaryId=0

Everything about this ad shouts out AmeriThai - so either they are one of the same............or one of them is ripping of the others advert!

[Nemesis]

Those are slave wages, definetely a school to avoid, whether or not it is related to Amerithai.

[Jase]

I just became aware of this posting yesterday and I would just like to confirm that The Language school has been established since 2002, and that 'Amerithai' have no part to play in this school whatsoever. Please take a look at our website again and look in the 'past and present teachers section' you will see over 20 teachers with comments about The Language and Suratthani. As stated in a previous post Mr Amerithai left Surat in 2006, so unless Mr Amerithai has opened a new school, employed over 20 teachers and treated them well in the past year we can safely assume that Amerithai has nothing to do with The Language School. As for the job ad looking similar, I can go to ajarn.com now and pull out another 20 positions and offers that look similar.

anyonefortennis, I'm sure your heart is in the right place and your intentions are honorable, but I fail to see how my website and job ad results in me being the previous owner of Amerithai. In fact, I feel the website is a very credible argument that I'm not the previous owner of Amerithai.I guess its a matter of what an individual is looking for when  reading any form of text I suppose.

I believe TEFL Watch is a very valuable service to all potential teachers, however it can also be quite damaging if people don't understand the function of TEFL Watch. From my understanding, if teachers have been mistreated, underpaid, not paid or a victim of any other unacceptable action made by an employer (Which I'm happy and proud to say we have never done)they have the opportunity to voice their grievance on this forum to warn other potential teachers. In contrast, I feel in this case, certain members are searching, looking and maybe even creating problems for employers. From my understanding that is not the objective of TEFL Watch.

I will delighted to proof this in anyway shape or form.

This is none of my business, but I would like to say that Amerithai still exists in Suratthani. We have to remember that Amerithai is a building not a man. As far as I'm aware MR. Amerithai left a year ago and the lady he left with all the problems is still running the school. My point is that 'dishing dirt' on MR Amerithai is not helping Amerithai school or its students at all. The day Mr Amerithai walked out of that building Amerithai became a new school and I think we should all have the wisdom and common sense to see it that way. Let this lady build her school in peace, if there's no change I'm sure you'll hear about it in a year or so.

[Aluishus]

Jase - Righteous Brother!

Nemisis - slave wages? Do you live or have you lived in Thailand? Agreed it is not much in US dollars but you live like a king when you're there. No one goes into teaching to make money and if so, you certainly don't go to Thailand.

Anyonefortennis - I worked for TL in 2005-2006 and can assure you that the owners of the school are the most decent, reputable and accomodating employers I have had in any proffession; thus they are a rare anomaly in the TEFOL business of which I have been a part for the last four years in four countries on three continents.

I can assure you that they have nothing to do with AmeriThai. I never had any dealings with this organisation so would hate to speculate on thier business. However, I did hear some less than savoury stories about "Mr AmeriThai", which don't bear repeating, but if he has left Suratthani, it will be a great improvement to the town and Thailand in general.

The internet is a wonderful invention for exchanging information, especially in the ESL industry which is full of cowboys and fly-by-night organisations... however, unsubstantiated speculation about decent schools, based on the similarity to two websites (?) is reckless and irresponsible. Maybe you should email the parties involved before you go making possibly damaging remarks on a public forum.

Working for TL was my first overseas position and I can't imagine better employers than these. It remains one of the best years of my life, thanks in no small part to the efforts of the owners.

Sign the contract, work for The Language, prove me wrong!

[RobRoy]

Nemesis

What determines is a wage is "slave wages" or "a place to avoid" comments should be a bit more fleshed out before someone, much less a moderator offers their opinion.  Personally, I think an apology is in order unless there's something you know about TL that you've not shared with us.  Making sweeping comments like that really isn't cool without some back up dude.

But thats just my opinion...what do I know?

[hero]

A basic salary of 22, 000 Baht.
2,000 Baht monthly performance bonus.
300 Baht per hour for overtime.

I struggle to live an average lifestyle on double that! 

[RobRoy]

Me too......but I guess its the "lifestyle" choices I've made.  I surely could survive on less and know many that do, especially outside of BKK.

Don't forget the 2k housing allowance.

With the OT I bet a teacher would be around 30K, about average for the sticks.

[Sadly-confused]

With the OT I bet a teacher would be around 30K, about average for the sticks.

Surely overtime should be for those little extras (like flights home), not simply to maintain the status quo!

[RobRoy]

Well, we've all given our opinions about the money, but still am curious if an apology is forthcoming from teflwatch for slagging off a school.  Other threads have castigated Phil for putting dubious ads on his site....what about the morals of this site?   If a person that is responsible for moderating topics here is allowed to put forth groundless accusations against a school, what does this say about us as a community.  Are we allowed to hurt the rep of a school because of perceived low wages?  At least anyonefortennis admitted he might be wrong.  Then our mods popped in with their opinions....

Just wondering.....Perhaps Andy will share with us the site's stance on this sort of thing.

[Sinead McKee]

Dear Anyonefortennis,

I worker as a teacher at the Language from November 2004- May 2006 and I can assure you that this school has been established since 2002.

 The Language  has never had any associations with Amerithai.

Through the hard work and dedication of the directors  of this school,the Language has established itself as a reputable,repectable and highly regarded institution.

As a former employee at the Language i was treated with nothing but positive support . Anyone who has had the oppurtunity to work at the Language knows how lucky they were to work for such supportive and kind people.

[Sinead McKee]

Dear Nemisis,


I am just curious about your 'slave wages ' comment.Have you lived in Southern Thailand??What are you basing this comment on?

In my perosnal two year experience the wages provided by the Language allowed me to live more than comfortably than i ever have in my life.I have lived in several locations around the world and i have never lived so well.
 Additionally ,my time at the language was one of the happiest times of my life. All the teachers at The Language were treated with the upmost of care and support.

[Geekboy]

Well, I will back up Nemesis on the slave wages comment. 22 hours a week for 22,000 a month is slave wages in my opinion as well. Even Phil himself says that 25k is the min. I think we as a group need to call out schools that pay too low of wages. I think 30k is the min a school should be paying a teacher and that for no more than 20 hours a week.

And don't get all fricked up on me. I live in southern Thailand and no school locally pays less than 30k a month and expects more than 20 hours a week from their teachers. Schools that pay less than 30k per month need to be called out.

I'm glad Nemesis stood up and called spade a spade. 22K is a horrendously low salary. Don't even mention the 2k housing allowance. Did ya really read the ad? It says you get free shared accomodation(living with someone else), if that's full up, you get 2k per month allowance.

You have to stand against low wages. It's ridiculous reading what a few have posted here making it seem like it's ok to offer 22k a month. Let me make one thing clear, the last time I saw 22k a month on offer for that many hours a month was back in 2001. I worked that kind of job and it wasn't the easiest making ends meet. With the recent runup in prices, I'd say it would be very difficult making it on 22k per month now.

I've castigated Phil for putting up dubious job ads on his site. I've called him on it and others have too. Including putting up exactly these kind of job ads. RobRoy, do you honestly think a qualified professional teacher should subject themselves to that low of a wage? Have you ever worked in the south? I have, in fact I've only worked in the south. Only a fool would work for these kind of ridiculous wages.

Nemesis, don't apologize. In fact I give you kudos for calling a spade a spade and I will say this: Those kind of wages are slave wages.

[fed_up]

I guess some people are desperate enough for 22K/month. I wonder what they think when they see even the Thai government schools paying 30+K.

Ah, FYI, I make over 50+ a month and still can't put any money in the bank.

[hero]

Are we allowed to hurt the rep of a school because of perceived low wages?

Perceived low wages - it's nothing short of exploitation!  I'm happy for them that they are able to find so many teachers so happy to work for peanuts, it doesn't change the fact that it is terribly low pay .... then again I guess that's how agencies make their money - by bidding down salaries and then taking a slice!

[Andy]

Rob, you want a policy, you got it.

If a school is paying more than 25% below the current market salary, then they are exploiting teachers in my opinion. Calling exploitation slave labor is ok in my book. Sorry Rob, but I'm glad my mods are willing to call out schools that pay substandard wages.

[fair]

22K is slave wage.

Complaints about the MODs here.  Why don't you see what Phil does when someone complaints about him on Ajarn??  He will delete the post and ban you for life.

[samvimes]

22,000 a month is not enough for a teacher to live on and is way below market rate IMHO.

I also agree that it is "slave wages" or even McJob wages 

We as teachers need to stand together to improve things for all of us, and people being willing to take this kind of penal servitude (sorry I mean job) for a pittance (oops I mean salary) keep things down for everyone else, conditions wise and salary wise.

[anyonefortennis]

I'm very happy that so many teachers had a wonderful experience working for TL, I made the opening remark to find out if they are one of the same, it would seem that they are not. If any offence was taken by the owners / manager of TL non was intended.

I also think that TL have been very lucky to have so many teachers who are happy to pile their trade for well below the average wage and be so grateful for the opportunity to do so. I'd like to know more about the 2,000 baht performance bonus each month, what part of your performance does it depend on? Was /is this always received and if so why not just up the wages?

People who think that living in cities like Surat, Nakhorn, Songkhla, Trang etc. means that you can accept peatnuts for wages are well of the mark. If The Language are working with government schools they will probably get 34,000 + (up to 45 depending on the school) a month for their services, surely the teachers could get a bigger slice of the cake?

[hero]

As we know well, when there are several agencies bidding for contracts at government schools the pressure is really on to get teachers to work for as little as possible while still affording a comfortable wedge for the agent and as much surplus as possible for the director!

[Mods-Rockers]

From a personal POW, 22k/month is fine as long as it only involves 10 hours a week spread over 2 consecutive days, else insert position where the sun does not shine!

[danad]

i would just like to add my 2 cents to this whole thing. i've been working for the language for over 2 years, and i'm currently employed by them. this school has definitely been open since 2002 and is IN NO WAY associated with amerithai or it's previous owner.

the owners of the school are some of the nicest, most helpful, sincere bosses that i've ever had. i think it is a great place to work, and i'm thankful for the experiences and opportunities i've had while i've been here. it will be a sad day when it's time to leave.

as for the salary, i would like to point out that if a teacher decides to continue working for the language after their first contract, the wage does go up. also, if you are doing your job properly, the bonus is given to you each month. overtime is always available. i've been making well over 30,000 baht since i started. i find this is plenty for me to live off of each month in suratthani, with a lot left over.

[anyonefortennis]

Good to hear from someone else who's happy.

The guys running this place must be spot on, I keep getting images of Mary Poppins type figures everytime I read comments from a past or present teacher - seriously if you're ever thinking about becoming copy writers don't bother, stick to teaching...............you're laying it on far to thick. Having said that it is nice to read there are such nice people around, even if they do pay next to nowt.

The fact that you've been making well over 30,000 baht since you've started suggests you must be working f8ck of a lot of hours, if we assume (although one never should of course) that when you started you salary was a maximum of 24 then you've making 10,000 baht a month extra through o/t at a rate of 300 baht an hour. That's getting on for an extra 34 hours o/t a month, not an easy task for someone in full time employement. So your doing say 22 hours a week in the f/t plus the o/t monthly hours, say a 122 hours teaching a month for 34K, this is without taking into consideration the preparation time that is needed, traveling costs from home to school to o/t gig etc.

I'm sorry Danad but it don't matter how you dress it up, the wage is far to low. Ok so you can bump it up, but look at what you have to do just to get 34k a month...................there's no wonder you find that you have a lot left over each month, I shouldn't think you have enough time to spend any of it.

At the end of the day money isn't everything, and if a decent salary can be traded for lovely cuddly bosses this clearly suits some people, it is at the end of the day a personal choice so good luck to one and all. 

[RobRoy]

1.  I agree that the wages are low, in my opinion, but since I've never worked in the south I couldn't say.  I couldn't imagine working for 22k+ without some serious perks.

2.  What is the current average wage in the Surathani area?  As there are so many variables between people teaching and locales to teach in Thailand, who and how is the current average wage determined?  Not really trying to cause a row here, but since some of this is up to PERSONAL choices, is it right we use terms like "slave wages"?  As there's happy people that are and have in the past worked there, is it right to put down the choices they've made, job wise?  Since we're to help teachers, lets point out where TL teachers could go to perhaps put some more money in their pockets.

3.  Is a management team you can trust, a work environment you like worth being paid a little less for?  Some people are lazy that way.

4.  As one of the posters from TL pointed out, there's many similar ads on ajarn.  When do we start bashing the rest of the schools?  Perhaps by posting a realistic set of average salaries for particular areas, types of employers and teacher experience, would assist potential employees negotiate a decent salary.  With this sites wide range of members experiences, we should be able to put on notice both teachers and schools as to what to expect, salary wise.

Perhaps we can get a copy of ajarns db showing school type, region, and salary.  I can do the db work.  Where do you want to start?

[RobRoy]

Also, just did a QUICK check of schools advertising on ajarn in the Surathani region:

Found 5 ads.  Looked at the ads, added in housing allowance, if they offered it.  Didn't add in "performance bonus" as there's a million ways for a school to screw you out of it.  Added in the 24k for the TL school, as their ad wasn't on ajarn, or I missed it. (22k salary, 2k housing).

Came to these figures:
Average pay: 28K in the Surathani area.   TL's base salary is about 86% below average.  If fact, it was the lowest salary.  The range was from 25k (2 schools) to 34k for a math EP teacher.  However, if a teacher got his/her bonus at TL, then they would make more than at the two lowest paying schools.

The point of this math exercise:
Before we say the wages are 25% below average, lets make sure what the average is.  Ajarn is only one site.  Other websites could be offering better paying jobs...I don't know.  And my guess is, neither does anyone else on the forum.  So is 14% lower than average is "slave wages"?  Is 5%?  Whats your opinion?  So far, the only people complaining about the salary at TL is people who DO NOT work there.  Since we don't work there...what do we know?

What should qualified, experienced teachers expect in the area?  What should a backpacker expect?  What other factors mitigate the low wages? 
What can we do to better the teaching situation there?  And does it need improving? 

Lets get some guidelines together and then start castigating schools for below average salaries.

But then again, its easy to put a school down.  At what point do we start using phrases like...a little below average rather that a negative remark.

[Jase]

Hi all

It's quite a topic we have going here, I would like to clarify a few points here. First, I have never seen myself as a cuddly Mary Poppins before, but I can't help but smile to myself as I read it. Secondly, we pay 22,000B, plus 2,000 for housing allowance and 2,000Bonus that makes 26,000 Baht considered to be the average wage in rural areas such as Suratthani. We do put up our salary 3,000Baht a month every year after. It's true, if teachers want to work 2 hours extra a week they will earn 28,400B, 3 hours extra 29,600B. In Bangkok you probably spend 10 hours a week traveling, in a rural town like suratthani it takes 10 minutes (on a motorcycle) to get from one side to the other.

The last few postings from Rob Roy, to me have been the most constructive yet, establishing what is termed has a low salary in certain areas. For example, a low salary in Phuket maybe considered a high salary in Suratthani. I too don't have exact figures on this, but its well worth the investigation. An 'area' that we didn't mention is the average Thai salary in different areas. We have to understand that if schools in Suratthani matched or even attempted to match those of bigger cities we would be catering for Suratthani's rich and elite and the other students would fall by the way side as the average Thai salary in Suratthani wouldn't be able to accomodate it.

We have choices in this forum, investigate then critise or critise then investigate.

You may have images that schools get fat and rich whilst sending their teachers out to teach. I can assure this is not the case at all, so if we pay more, we must charge more, as a result some students can't study English with western teachers. That's why language schools in Suratthani offer more or less the same deals. I did say language schools not big goverment schools, and no we don't send teachers to goverment schools. It comes down to personal choices again, I didn't set up a school to teach Suratthani's rich and elite, but unfortunately it appears that pressures and critism is pushing it that way.

I would also like to ask Andy, to change the name of this thread. I think we have established that The Language School has never mistreated its teachers and the thread has developed into a discussion about salaries. The Language is far from the only school in rural areas to pay 26,000B I fail to see why our school should be put up there as the topic heading. There are hundreds, if not thousands of schools that pay the same as us and some don't even treat their teachers well.

I hope you all have a good day,
Cuddly Mary Poppins

PS 'STICK TO TEACHING....... YOU'RE LAYING IT ON TOO THICK' anyonefortennis, you are very quick to request silence when people have positive comments to make. For me this one comment shows that your objective is to be as negative as possible, not just on this thread but any other that you have voiced an opinion on. You should follow ROB ROYS example and be more constructive with your words.

[RobRoy]

Has it gotten pretty quiet?  As with the ajarn bitchin thread, it doesn't seem like anyone is willing to do anything to help, but just witch. 

I've offered my services (on two separate threads) and nothing really seems to happen.  It appears its easier here to whine than to actually do something constructive.  As all but one of the mods of this site that have made comments on this thread have been online today, why haven't they commented on the need to set criteria for the benefit of both teachers and schools?  Why hasn't there been a comment on how we can use our experience to put together info to help teachers here in Thailand?  Is it perhaps its the "other" website after all we should depend on?  Whats up?

Next, there's been posters here using negative comments about salaries a school has offered.  They've not backed up their statements with any kind of facts.  Rather than saying, "I guess I should have looked before I opened my mouth." the posters only reiterate their unsubstantiated opinions.  Please explain to me how by throwing negative comments around without facts HELPS teachers or puts the schools on notice they need to change things.  Especially when some of these posters were mods whose task, I thought, was to ensure that facts were presented, rather that just wild opinions.

Jase, agree with you, this thread has gotten off topic.  The TL doesn't need to be involved in this discussion.  Just throwing out my opinion.  Maybe others will offer their opinions too.

[hero]

OK - 22k is a ridiculous offering as a salary to anybody living in Thailand ..... there I said it.  It's my opinion only, I offer it as just that, I stand by it and I stand by my right to say so.

It's a joke, a scam, exploitative and blah blah blah.  Is it really necessary to have a "set of criteria" to tell us how to think?  I think most people who've spent more than a couple of months in Thailand will be able to see that this just isn't enough money to live even semi-comfortably here.

The Language in Surat Thani may well be a very nicely run enterprise, with very happy teachers - unfortunately they pay their teachers terribly.  That's the message from this thread as far as I'm concerned.

Why hasn't there been a comment on how we can use our experience to put together info to help teachers here in Thailand?

Here's one - don't sell yourself short by accepting crap wages.  Nobody need work for less than 30k IMO, there are plenty of better paying jobs than that.

this thread has gotten off topic

Good point, let's keep it to the school mentioned in the title and relevant issues.

[lemon]

I see that one of the teachers on the site is still there but is about to leave.  Amerithai is for sale.  The owner left months ago.  The only thing I have against TL is where they send you to work.  They're all loser admins that can't keep a teacher employed for more than two months, you you farang go home students.