Topic: Fake Degrees

[hero]

the problem with people using fake degrees boils down to the fact that they are bullshitting their employer

Often yes, but not always.  I have lost count on the number of times that I've heard "The school are in on it!"

[freedom fighter]

Good points. 

However, many fakeys were told by dubious agencies that '...in Thailand no one cares if you use a fake, the schools will tell you where to find them'.  They sought out employment, made a life here and later the rules changed, or at least became implemented, thanks to a governmental knee jerk reaction to a certain american's behaviour.

What about the 'fakeys who were told it was ok by the people they trusted, should they uproot themselves and abandon their lives here?  (I know at least two good teachers in this position.)

Everytime I drive down the road I see at least a hundred thais jeopordising lives around them by flauting the traffic laws.  I don't see these law breakers being villified. 

As for fraud... don't get me started on the that issue - not in Thailand.

Let's go easy on the 'fakeys' - these charlatan, shisters have feelings too.

[milianfurtado]

If someone uses a fake degree to get a job they wouldn't normally have gotten, they are cheating other teachers. Plain and simple.

 
I agree with that, nemesis!

[certified]

How would you feel if "Bones" got his medical degree from a Mexican border town? Or what if "Scotty" had only pumped gas before becoming the Chief Engineer on the Enterprise? What if Lt. Zulu had only driven a rickshaw before lying his way to the helm of the ship? I'm sure it would still be a great show, but it would have to change from an action series to a comedy.

[Nemesis]

It would have been funny as hell. Thanks for the laugh!

[math_teacher]

Dishonesty plain and simple. So there are a few with fake degrees that are decent actors. By earning a real degree I made a commitment of time and effort. Is that not what I am trying to motivate my students to do? To put time and effort into their studies? Sure there are some qualified teachers who are just mediocre and uninspiring. At least they don't make it harder for other qualified teachers. Fake degree holders do by bringing down the salary scales they enable the continuation of the overall sad state of affairs in the Thai educational system. Just think about it. If there were no fake teachers in this country, real teachers would be in a lot more demand and would be earning significantly more and be treated very well to motivate them to stay in jobs for a long time. It is unfortunate the so many schools and language centers are not only willing to look the other way, but actively aiding and abetting such fake teachers. It is no wonder the average IQ of Thai students is only 90. The corrupt system is bringing it down upon themselves.

[bomha]

Please do not correct me if I am wrong, but of all the places in the world, Thailand is often one crummy juke-joint that you do not have to come into with a degree!  Hey Mum, I'm a Senior Professor Emeritus!!

But when I do think of all those quid that Mum and Dad paid out of their factory wages, all those professor's asses I had to kiss just to get good grades, all those terrible courses in Ancient Mythology's Relevance to Gaelic History.....it is only fair that the Smegs of the world have to take the same courses.

[wake]

.


Just wanted to remind folks who have pie-in-the-sky thoughts about how non-degreed teachers are dragging down the pay scale:
There are a few other countries in the SEA region where degrees are strictly enforced and yet salary and working conditions are no better than here.  China and Korea quickly come to mind.  Vietnam is no bowl of cherries.  Many have read about the probs encountered when qualified people seek work in these other countries.  Two friends who went to Vietnam are paying 30 to 40 percent of their wages for cost of living.  I pay 15 to 20 percent here.  I have a car and a motorbike, they have bicycles.  They have been there three years and are looking to come back.

If you factor in Thailand's positive points, low cost of living, infrastructure, laid-back lifestyle, you can see why, baht for baht, won for won, dong for dong (sounds like a porn movie title), Thailand is a more desirable place to work than these other countries.  IMHO.

I think many will agree with me when I state that salaries in Thailand have nothing to do with supply and demand or degree/no degree.

wake


~

[bomha]

Where did you say we could get dong for dong?

[sabai_sabai]

My understanding was that it was thought of as okay to use a fake degree before last years crackdown if the school knew the degree was fake.  "Okay" meaning that it's as illegal as selling pirated DVD's and sometimes keeping a low profile would be necessary.  The schools that colluded with teachers to get fakes were usually the kind that didn't pay too well and/or were in more desperate areas.  I do have sympathy for these teachers who were given the impression that this was always going to be the status quo, even though there were clues that this was changing.

The teachers that I do not have sympathy for were flat out caught lying in international school jobs and other places that are expect the qualifications and pay accordingly.  Some of these teachers that I've met have faked BEd's and even a few have faked MEd's and acted like they were a Gift to Thai education. My supervisor was caught mid-year (claiming to have a bachelors and TWO Masters) and to say that I have less than no sympathy would be an understatement.  A woman at another school railroaded a few teachers out of jobs by "observing" them and because of the status of her (fake) BEd had the credibility to do that. 

The second group aren't doing Thailand any favors and are often the insecure types defensively parading around judging those of us who were educated to do our jobs.  I don't know of any other way to impartially judge a teacher's ability to teach other than a bachelor's degree minimum, even in an unrelated field. (And I took 12 hours of teacher's licensing exams, they are not a good assessment tool.) At the very least, the degree demonstrates that a person committed themselves to earning the degree and possibly learned something in the process.

[anyonefortennis]

Off on a tangent slightly, but should employers be bothered about where the degree is from? Very few seem to be.

Should we have a falling scale depending on where one obtain ones degree from, not only the level of the degree?

For example, red bricks and Ivy leagues at the top and degrees from colleges in the backend of nowhere at the bottom? If the subject field is not education related does it matter where the degree is from?

[bomha]

anyone for tennis: I like your idea, and in the real world of academic excellence (say, applying at Oxbridge or Ivy League) it would matter whether your degree is from Southwest Leeds Polytechnic.  Your grade point average, the relevant courses in your major field, your professors' reputations - all those would matter immensely at a real higher university.  I suspect the top calibre 3 or 4 international schools here would pay 85K for a mediocre graduate of a lower ranking school when they simply had nobody else to teach higher calculus, and they'd pay 110K for a bloke with an MS in maths from Stanford.  But not from Stamford.

However, to teach matayom 4 intermediate English in an EP or bilingual program in Outer Saskatoonburi, any B.Ed. should be adequate.

[Good2b-happy]

A liar and a cheat is the lowest form of life!