Topic: Fake Degrees

[Geekboy]

Ok, if you need a fake degree to live in Thailand to be with family, that is a-ok in my book. A degree doesn't make you a good teacher.

What really gets me in people to tell others how superior they are and how much more educated they are, how much much more qualified, etc and hold up fake credentials to back themselves up.

I got a farang superior with a fake degree. I came across his resume in an interesting way and the stuff on it amazes me. First off, he has a two year degree. That is cool, but then he has a 4 year degree from a non-existent university in a foreign country and is studying a masters from a school he doesn't even talk about studying from.

If he was just a co-worker, it would all be cool or even if he was my boss and didn't tell us all the time that he was superior in his educational training than anyone of us, but he does and it makes me a bit angry. I am more experienced than he is and I have more qualifications than this poser.

What should I do?

[Krungsri]

Is this real, Geekboy?  It looks like a Dorothy Dixer.  If real, is this guy really studying for a Master's from a little known, but legit university?  If not, why's he studying when he can just pay up?  If the situation you describe is for real and you don't want to confront him or his superiors why not just finish your contract and leave.  "Life experience" degrees may be justified in some cases (Khao San doesn't qualify in my book), but they're not a platform to boast on.

[ajarnnormal]

Man that sucks. I have said many times on this forum that if someone has a fake degree all well and good. if he gets caught then I have no sympsthy. If one tried to tell me how wonderful he was I'm sorry but I would have to put him/her in their place. i would try to do it as nice as possible but if all else failed then I would give them a broadside and let fire. I remember one teacher who had a degree from some place like Tanzania and I said to hime is that for real. He had the gumpsion to tell me that it was a fake. He turned out to be a nice enough guy, but got found out. I had empathy but no sympathy I'm afraid. When you think about it they have not a leg to stand on in this world never mind this country. If the who thing got on top of me with someone like that I think I would leave too.

[anyonefortennis]

Personally I feel that Fake degrees are, no matter the circumstances, not acceptable. And as for life experience degrees, they're not worth the paper they're printed on, they're purely a license to print money for dodgy online universities.

If you want a degree, do the bloody work to earn one.

[ajarnnormal]

Yes AOFT you some it up very well. Unfortunately there are many out here and we have to live with the fact that our workmates may be frauds. I think with the recent events in this country there will be many teachers heading home at the end of this term or moving on to another country in Asia. I feel then there will be a drought and we will see many more fakes.

[airpuka]

I dont think ANYONE should be talking about how good they are at anything, in my experience all people that i have met that boast about what good teachers they are  are ###### (Mod Edit: Insert your insult of choice here, the one I edited is about the most colorful I have seen in awhile, but it was too colorful)

[ajarnnormal]

I agree but I can see no evidence that anyone was on this thread.

[Nemesis]

If someone uses a fake degree to get a job they wouldn't normally have gotten, they are cheating other teachers. Plain and simple.

[ajarnnormal]

Yes spot on mate and something that makes me cringe. As I have said many times, if the rules of the MOE etc state that a teacher must have a degree then that is cut and dry. Getting a fake one is breaking the law and anyone who is caught has my empathy but not my sympathy. I do not feel comfortable working with someone who has been to the Uni at KS road. They seem to want to prove that they are a teacher somehow. They also seem to be insecure about what they are doing.

[Nemesis]

Yeah, there are two types of people with fake degrees. The one who know they are doing wrong but have to do it for one reason or another. They don't make a fuss, don't make waves, they don't try to take the higher paying jobs and certainly don't try to be arrogant.

The other type, get the fake paper and becomes God's own gift to teaching. Superiority complex sets in...they demand higher salaries for their supposed higher paper qualifications...and they do it wrong to the honest teachers.

If you are the first group, you got my empathy and sympathy. Second group? TEFLWatch is pro-teacher. If you are an admin or working otherwise in a school and harming legitimate teachers, you are our enemy.

[anyonefortennis]

It's not actually that difficult to get a proper degree nowadays either, there are so many legitimate ways, whether it be fulltime, part-time (evenings or weekends), semi distance learning, full distance learning, dl online etc.

I just don’t think there’s any excuse anymore, education is more accessible than ever b 4 and anyone using a fake degree should have their arse whipped and be sent to work in the paddy fields.

[Thighlander]

If you are a fake, you are harming our profession and keeping wages low.  I hope you have your soap-on-a-rope, when the police come knocking.

[anyonefortennis]

doin time in a Thai slammer................wouldn't wish that on anyone (well, nearly anyone) not even a "fakey".

Just throw the buggers into the paddy fields and let em do hard labour.

[freedom fighter]

People with fake degrees would not be employed if the school admins actually did their jobs properly, but 'fakeys' are a tough question. 

I want to see the best standards for the students too but does having a bachelors in electrical engineering, which means you are legal here, make you a good teacher? 

I have known some 'fakeys' who were actually pretty good teachers.  Their TEFLs and commitment count more in my books than some guy with a degree in electronics.

I for one don't condemn 'fakeys', I judge a person by the job they are doing. 

I'm all for 'real' teachers but a degree, fake or real, is no measuring stick.

FF.

[anyonefortennis]

FF, I don't think the issue is so much about if people have a degree or not, it is rather about people claiming to have a degree when they don't, which is dishonesty.

If you are employed on the grounds of having a degree, then a degree you should have.

I know plenty of teachers without degrees, and they are very good at their job, and just as importantly they didn't gain their employment through deception.

I quite agree that a degree in film studies does not automatically qualify you as a teacher, but what it does do is show that you have been able to attain a certain level of education, a level of education that you can then encourage your students to either match or surpass.

For me, the problem with people using fake degrees boils down to the fact that they are bullshitting their employer and their students, if you ain’t got a degree, fine, but rather than making a fake one why not try highlighting on your CV why you are a great teacher – shit loads of experience, a people person, patient and understanding, good organizer etc. etc. 

[hero]

the problem with people using fake degrees boils down to the fact that they are bullshitting their employer

Often yes, but not always.  I have lost count on the number of times that I've heard "The school are in on it!"

[freedom fighter]

Good points. 

However, many fakeys were told by dubious agencies that '...in Thailand no one cares if you use a fake, the schools will tell you where to find them'.  They sought out employment, made a life here and later the rules changed, or at least became implemented, thanks to a governmental knee jerk reaction to a certain american's behaviour.

What about the 'fakeys who were told it was ok by the people they trusted, should they uproot themselves and abandon their lives here?  (I know at least two good teachers in this position.)

Everytime I drive down the road I see at least a hundred thais jeopordising lives around them by flauting the traffic laws.  I don't see these law breakers being villified. 

As for fraud... don't get me started on the that issue - not in Thailand.

Let's go easy on the 'fakeys' - these charlatan, shisters have feelings too.

[milianfurtado]

If someone uses a fake degree to get a job they wouldn't normally have gotten, they are cheating other teachers. Plain and simple.

 
I agree with that, nemesis!

[certified]

How would you feel if "Bones" got his medical degree from a Mexican border town? Or what if "Scotty" had only pumped gas before becoming the Chief Engineer on the Enterprise? What if Lt. Zulu had only driven a rickshaw before lying his way to the helm of the ship? I'm sure it would still be a great show, but it would have to change from an action series to a comedy.

[Nemesis]

It would have been funny as hell. Thanks for the laugh!

[math_teacher]

Dishonesty plain and simple. So there are a few with fake degrees that are decent actors. By earning a real degree I made a commitment of time and effort. Is that not what I am trying to motivate my students to do? To put time and effort into their studies? Sure there are some qualified teachers who are just mediocre and uninspiring. At least they don't make it harder for other qualified teachers. Fake degree holders do by bringing down the salary scales they enable the continuation of the overall sad state of affairs in the Thai educational system. Just think about it. If there were no fake teachers in this country, real teachers would be in a lot more demand and would be earning significantly more and be treated very well to motivate them to stay in jobs for a long time. It is unfortunate the so many schools and language centers are not only willing to look the other way, but actively aiding and abetting such fake teachers. It is no wonder the average IQ of Thai students is only 90. The corrupt system is bringing it down upon themselves.

[bomha]

Please do not correct me if I am wrong, but of all the places in the world, Thailand is often one crummy juke-joint that you do not have to come into with a degree!  Hey Mum, I'm a Senior Professor Emeritus!!

But when I do think of all those quid that Mum and Dad paid out of their factory wages, all those professor's asses I had to kiss just to get good grades, all those terrible courses in Ancient Mythology's Relevance to Gaelic History.....it is only fair that the Smegs of the world have to take the same courses.

[wake]

.


Just wanted to remind folks who have pie-in-the-sky thoughts about how non-degreed teachers are dragging down the pay scale:
There are a few other countries in the SEA region where degrees are strictly enforced and yet salary and working conditions are no better than here.  China and Korea quickly come to mind.  Vietnam is no bowl of cherries.  Many have read about the probs encountered when qualified people seek work in these other countries.  Two friends who went to Vietnam are paying 30 to 40 percent of their wages for cost of living.  I pay 15 to 20 percent here.  I have a car and a motorbike, they have bicycles.  They have been there three years and are looking to come back.

If you factor in Thailand's positive points, low cost of living, infrastructure, laid-back lifestyle, you can see why, baht for baht, won for won, dong for dong (sounds like a porn movie title), Thailand is a more desirable place to work than these other countries.  IMHO.

I think many will agree with me when I state that salaries in Thailand have nothing to do with supply and demand or degree/no degree.

wake


~

[bomha]

Where did you say we could get dong for dong?

[sabai_sabai]

My understanding was that it was thought of as okay to use a fake degree before last years crackdown if the school knew the degree was fake.  "Okay" meaning that it's as illegal as selling pirated DVD's and sometimes keeping a low profile would be necessary.  The schools that colluded with teachers to get fakes were usually the kind that didn't pay too well and/or were in more desperate areas.  I do have sympathy for these teachers who were given the impression that this was always going to be the status quo, even though there were clues that this was changing.

The teachers that I do not have sympathy for were flat out caught lying in international school jobs and other places that are expect the qualifications and pay accordingly.  Some of these teachers that I've met have faked BEd's and even a few have faked MEd's and acted like they were a Gift to Thai education. My supervisor was caught mid-year (claiming to have a bachelors and TWO Masters) and to say that I have less than no sympathy would be an understatement.  A woman at another school railroaded a few teachers out of jobs by "observing" them and because of the status of her (fake) BEd had the credibility to do that. 

The second group aren't doing Thailand any favors and are often the insecure types defensively parading around judging those of us who were educated to do our jobs.  I don't know of any other way to impartially judge a teacher's ability to teach other than a bachelor's degree minimum, even in an unrelated field. (And I took 12 hours of teacher's licensing exams, they are not a good assessment tool.) At the very least, the degree demonstrates that a person committed themselves to earning the degree and possibly learned something in the process.

[anyonefortennis]

Off on a tangent slightly, but should employers be bothered about where the degree is from? Very few seem to be.

Should we have a falling scale depending on where one obtain ones degree from, not only the level of the degree?

For example, red bricks and Ivy leagues at the top and degrees from colleges in the backend of nowhere at the bottom? If the subject field is not education related does it matter where the degree is from?

[bomha]

anyone for tennis: I like your idea, and in the real world of academic excellence (say, applying at Oxbridge or Ivy League) it would matter whether your degree is from Southwest Leeds Polytechnic.  Your grade point average, the relevant courses in your major field, your professors' reputations - all those would matter immensely at a real higher university.  I suspect the top calibre 3 or 4 international schools here would pay 85K for a mediocre graduate of a lower ranking school when they simply had nobody else to teach higher calculus, and they'd pay 110K for a bloke with an MS in maths from Stanford.  But not from Stamford.

However, to teach matayom 4 intermediate English in an EP or bilingual program in Outer Saskatoonburi, any B.Ed. should be adequate.

[Good2b-happy]

A liar and a cheat is the lowest form of life!