Topic: Visa Background Checks Now

[Nemesis]

I thought users in Thailand might be interested to know that Background Checks for visas has become a done deal.

http://www.teflnews.net/56/background-checks-in-thailand/

What do you think???

[los_teacher]

According to that link the Thai Consulate is Laos is requiring background checks from thai government and the applicants home gov't before issuing non-B visas.  This isn't surprising.  The Laos consulate has been asking people not to come there for non-B visas for many months.  Sounds like this is a move on their part to further discourage people from coming there.

The Penang consulate/embassy is possibly requiring background checks from thai gov't - this is more reasonable - but i haven't seen anything telling people how this is to be accomplished. 

It sounds like the Thai government had better reign in their consular/ambassadorial staff and set a firm policy that gets promulgated universally.  Then they will need to clearly inform schools of the rules or there will be big problems come May 2007.

[bomha]

ajarnforum and Thai Visa also have discussion about this.  Either Laos or Cambodia consulate or embassy seem to be requiring one kind of criminal check or the other.  I did not notice that any Thai MFA outlet is requiring two criminal checks: from Thailand and from one's home country.  Think about it: why should not the Thai embassy already have access to Thai criminal records sites?  The American embassy outlets in Thailand, for example  , checks each American's passport when they come to ask a simple question.  And they are probably checking against the FBI database.  My Yank mate said when he went to the US consulate in China, they recorded his eyeball image!

Why would only the Thai embassy in Laos ask for this, and not all the other places?  Would they even know the name of your home country's agency that issues these things?  Do they know what an RCMP certification looks like?  Do they know if an Irish cert comes from Dublin or Belfast?

How many of these rumours are confirmed?

[Nemesis]

The Laos news has been confirmed. Maybe it is time people vote with their feet? Obviously the Thai government does not trust foreign teachers.

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

More good news & just in time for the holidays.   


OK already, enough is enough. John Karr scandal or not.


For the first time since I arrived here 3 years ago,

I am no longer recommending Thailand as a

destination for English teachers.


Pending clarification by Thai MOE & Bureau of Immigration

as to exactly what the hell they're trying to accomplish,

this will be my last post on Thai forums for a while.


I'm fed up with trying to explain why people need

to jump through hoops for a third world salary

in a country with an educational system

in shambles, declining IQs, etc ...


Look elsewhere, folks.

It's not worth it.

[bomha]

To who would you recomend that they teach in Thailand?  Not somebody with a B.Ed. degree.  Not somebody with no uni degree at all. Maybe to a gap year kid who just wants to go out on a lark for 9 months. 

To who would you recomend a teaching career in Thailand?  Nobody.

My Yank friend said rudely, "F--k the Thais, one way or the other, and then leave before they do it to you."

[Andy]

Comin' for the biggest and best Thailand TEFL dawg on the number 1 TEFL site on the net, ESLCafe, this statement carries a lot of weight with me. Just look at the number of neg posts on this site about teachin' in Thailand? Too many regs, too many dudes wantin' to make life crazy for teachin' dawgs, or is it dogs?

So KK, my man, are you headin' elsewhere to teach? Got any suggestions?

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Buenos Dias, Andy

Que pasa?


I'm on a brand new multi-entry Non B visa which is good for a year.

When that expires, we'll see where we are with these anal regulations

and anti-foreigner sentiment ... and then make a decision based on that.


I'm pissed off about the knee-jerk reactions of Thai MOE and Immigration

but I'm not one to jump to conclusions before all the facts are known.


So for now, I'm just pissed off.   

[Johnny Rotten]

Cambodia has been next to impossible to obtain a single-entry non-immB visa for many years.

Laos has always been very difficult with the Thai staff enjoying winding up foreigners for requests of documents not listed anywhere but there.

Penang was/is a lot more straightforward (loads of supporting docs from your school though), but still has only issued single non-immBs for a number of years as well.

Get your multi-entry non-immB in your home country if you can, otherwise single-entry is the best you'll do.

Background check
Show me a link to an official statement from a Thai consulate/embassy then I'll believe, otherwise this is just a rumour.

[Pibthong]

   I got a 90-day Non-Immi-B Visa from the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, in September and last month got Thai Immi in Bangkok to OK the Visa to next Sept, 2007. During the 3 days it took the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh to process my application, I saw no other farang get a Non-Immi-B Visa. Indeed, several farang seeking the particular Visa were immediately turned away at the application window with no Visa at all. Other applicants for a 90-day Non-Immi-B Visa were given a 60-day tourist Visa instead. It is true that just about 99% of farang who seek a Non-Immi-B Visa in Cambodia are turned away. This is the norm at the Thai Embassy in Cambodia. The situation in other neighboring countries isn't much different.

   It took Thai Immi in Bangkok about 50 minutes to process my application for the Non-Immi-B Visa up to next September. So, unless someone right now can relate a specific experience of a background check, I'm with Johnny Rotten--that is, show me an official statement right now so I can believe the background check stuff. Granted, our names can be brought up on the screen by Thai Immi in moments, as happens when we enter the country and are processed by Thai Immi. If there's a problem, we'd know it then, would we not? Regardless, then there would be the matter of the mechanics of a background check or double check (by two governments).

   I have friends at the U.S. Department of State in Washington DC, former colleagues (altho I never worked at DEPSTATE), who advise that, given the present anti-farang attitudes, policies and practices of the Thaksin bureaucracy that continues to dominate the Thai government in its day-in, day-out operations, Hanoi is the best place to seek a Non-Immi-B Visa, at least for the time being--that is, until the political situation becomes settled. But, as to the political situation, the advice was given to me before the New Year's Bangkok bombings. (By the by, has anyone tried Hanoi? I don't know of a single person.)

   Now that the ousted political party is shamelessly resorting to ruthless violence, I'd say all bets are off. It appears that the political opposition is only beginning what can be expected to be a relentlessly brutal campaign to regain power. Consequently, farang teachers remain in Thailand at our own risk. Beyond the matter of farang teachers from the U.S, however, the U.S. Dept of State is now greatly concerned about the stability of Thailand itself. Thailand may not again see democracy or internal peace and stability for some time to come.

   As with KFK, I'd been patiently considering my options. After the Bangkok New Year's bombings, however, I'm seriously considering looking elsewhere, to include a return to the U.S. (It actually seems safer there!)

   

[Mods-Rockers]

Point of order here Pibthong, although I suspect that you will accuse me of barroom brawling again as I contradict you, but the readership deserves accurate information and not what you have stated below:

Other applicants for a 90-day Non-Immi-B Visa were given a 30-day tourist Visa instead. It is true that 99% of farang who seek a Non-Immi-B Visa in Cambodia are turned away. This is normal at the Thai Embassy in Cambodia.   

Whilst I fully agree that in recent times both the Khmer and Loation embassies have been reticent with the issuing of non-imm visas. They do not issue 30 day tourist visas, the tourist visa id 60 day with the ability to extend by another 30 days at an immigration office. The 30 visa is known as a TRANSIT  visa and its also a visa on entry thus no need to visit a consulate or embassy to obtain one, hense the border runs to get them.

With both embeassies if you have he correct paperwork according to their interpretation of the rules they will normally give you the visa, the trick is knowing how they interpret the rules on the week you go. Before I got married (now on non-imm O)and thus out of that loop, I found it best to get a sensible member of the Thai admin to phone the embassy before departure to ascertain the exact correct paperwork needed it also helps to know a fax facility near the embassy as they both used to accept faxed paperwork if you found you were missing something.

[Pibthong]

Mods-Rockers,
   Thanks for pointing out the typo (60 days, not 30 days). Fortunately I still had time enuff to modify the post both to correct the typo and also to revise and extend my points.

   The Non-Immi-B Visa of a colleague at school expires in April, which is convenient for him. He's returning to his native country, NZ, in April during our school's break between school years and will get a new Visa at the Thai Embassy there. He doesn't expect any difficulty (but who knows?).

   And who knows what kind of Thailand he'd return to in May?!?

[Nemesis]

If this hadn't been verified, I wouldn't have been posted over on TEFL News or even here for that matter. Want an official statement? Has there been any "official statement" for any of the BS they have put out in the past?

[Mods-Rockers]

You have a fair point there Nemesis! very rarely does a "official statement" appear, with the two embassies in question, loas and cambodia, its often more an interpretation, or should that be misinterpretation of some letter or memo that causes grief. As I stated before it really is good prudence to check with the embassy as to exactly what they require before setting out on the journey, that and a good plan Z!!!!

[bomha]

ThaiVisa now has two discussions going, with a direct link to the Thai Embassy in London, requiring police checks for teachers going to Thailand.  The discussion is linked on ajarn forum net also.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=99451

http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/police_clearance.html


http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/

also, from the Los Angeles Thai immi website:  http://www.thai-la.net/visa/visa-non-im.htm

[RobRoy]

My wife a got a NON-O in the middle of December (Dec 18) in room 303 at our beloved immi here in BKK.  Changed her visa from a tourist to a NON-O in about 30 minutes and several calls to the school.  Didn't ask for any background checks, but then again she was applying for a different visa, so it may be different.  Oh, and I was a bit late on my 90 note that was up on Dec 5 (was told it was the date on my TM card, NOT the date of my visa) and got fined 2000 baht.  Just frigging lovely!

[ajarnnormal]

It is about time this country removed it's fat head out of it's arogant backside, or is it happy to just have that kind of vision for it's future. powers that be are happy when the biggest percentage of the country are ignorant and just follow like sheep. They like it when they can do exactly what they want with the population. they like it when there is no freedom of speech. They like it when the people have little idea about what is going on in the world and it's own country. They do not want their people to be too educated incase they suddenly wake up and realize that their is something drasticly wrong with the country. The world laughs at the arogance and stupidity of Thaiiland slowly sinking into the depths of despair. I do not think the world would give a damn if the lights went out for good. This country of sheep governed by wolves.

[RobRoy]

AJ, It really upsets us went you hold back your feelings....let it out....tell us what you really think!

[ajarnnormal]

Thanks mate sometimes it upsets me to see the way this country is slowly flushing itself down the toilet. I know some of you guys feel the same.

[Pibthong]

   A guy the other day was being interviewed on Bloomberg Financial Television about the precarious financial and economic situation of present day Thailand and the forseeable future. He was asked what Thailand had to do to correct its current course to oblivion. The Bloomberg interviewer noted that the 1997 East Asian financial and economic meltdown began in Thailand. The farang banker's reply applies to education, too, I would say. The guy said Thais need to learn and to practice "humility." He said Thais need to consult with those who know, both inside and out of Thailand. Thais need to examine the nature of their actions and decisions and to learn to anticipate the reaction their actions could/might cause.

   A little humility goes a long way, but how does one teach it? Doesn't one have to be willing to learn such a quality as humility? (I'd thought Buddhism taught that anyway!) Then there's the matter of intellectual capability, capacity etc. I fear we're still in for a long haul over a disintegrating road that, as in 1997, might suddenly disappear.

[wordsworth]

   A guy the other day was being interviewed on Bloomberg Financial Television about the precarious financial and economic situation of present day Thailand and the forseeable future. He was asked what Thailand had to do to correct its current course to oblivion. The Bloomberg interviewer noted that the 1997 East Asian financial and economic meltdown began in Thailand. The farang banker's reply applies to education, too, I would say. The guy said Thais need to learn and to practice "humility." He said Thais need to consult with those who know, both inside and out of Thailand. Thais need to examine the nature of their actions and decisions and to learn to anticipate the reaction their actions could/might cause.

   A little humility goes a long way, but how does one teach it? Doesn't one have to be willing to learn such a quality as humility? (I'd thought Buddhism taught that anyway!) Then there's the matter of intellectual capability, capacity etc. I fear we're still in for a long haul over a disintegrating road that, as in 1997, might suddenly disappear.

Hey Pib.

Forget it my friend, it isnt going to happen. The pollies (and for that matter the senior civil servants) figure they already know it all, because the Thai is genetically superior right? (check the genetic databank announcement in the papers today, worth a laugh!), and because they are important people - top of the tree right?  You see, if they ask for advice from Johnny Foreigner, it is tantamount to confessing that they dont know it all - and that *definitely* wont happen either, no sir.

I was fascinated to see the Nation report a column from one of the USA financials the other day. The reporter described the financial performance of Bro Pridyathorn and Co as 'remarkably incompetent' (unquote). I will go with that, clearly written by an insightful man.

it seems to me though, that the real danger isnt the Immi, and it isnt the army and it probably isnt the police either (though I believe the corruption and incompetence of the Police accounts for probably 90% of the problems in Thailand). It is the 'sufficency economy' idea, or rather how it will be received by the majority of Thais. As soon as it was announced I drew the following conclusions, none of which are clever, all of which are blindingly obvious:

1. it is a knee-jerk reaction to having failed miserably in trying to be a developing country. Thaksin strutted the world stage and all he got was a jester's cap.
2. Thais are going to become very insular and inward-looking, they will see this as a positive virtue rather than an indication of their failure. They are in the process of taking their toys and going home.
3. The problems with the economy will accelerate and it will be the fault of those evil Johnny Foreigners again. And there *will* be a problem. Dont forget that Thailand and its government are regarded as being well-meaning but completely incompetent by all the Asian nations, esp after the 1997 meltdown (which, as has been rightly pointed out by someone else, started with the incompetence and arrogance in Thailand).

Time will tell if I am right.

ps. Doesnt anyone else worry that so many Thai politicians go to fortune tellers, astrologers and witches? And that government decisions actually appear to be influenced by this nonsense. Bewilders the f*ck out of me

You took the words right out of my mouth !!!!!

However as for astrologers and witches etc.................... i thought both Mr Blair and Mr Bush are members of secret organizations that amount  to the same thing! (The Illuminati)


Peace
Wordsworth

[bomha]

Back on the topic of backgeround checks: the ISAT (international schools of Thailand) has publicly asked the Thai government to make the application and hiring process more practical. 

Here is the topic from the Bangkok Post article, that is in ThaiVisa today,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=101592

[hero]

Anyway, back on topic ..... it seems the evidence of the last week or so suggests that the Thai authorities have got it wrong again.  The International schools are having problems getting paperwork for very well qualified teachers, while the rounding up at private bilingual schools proves that (some of them anyway) they are still happto to give anyone a job!

[Pibthong]

   I've been waiting for the international schools to go public. Their quiet Thai approach has failed and now even the international schools have taken to public howling, and justifiably so.

   Teaching always has been a special position in society, much like a physician or lawyer. It's not the same as being a hardhat or an IT wizzard. When one thinks of foreigners in the classrooms of your country's schools, the matter becomes more than special--it strikes sensitivities that are social, cultural, national in nature. Imagine an inflow of native speakers of Chinese and Japanese into the schools of your country. Wouldn't you want to know that everything's okay? So I'd say that, in primciple, some checks of credentials, character etc are reasonable.

   However, this present nonsense in Thailand is tantamount to shooting one's self in the foot. (Most Thais shooting themselves in the head would cause less damage!)

[fortuneguy]

I agree with just about everything posted on this thread. Does that make me some form of sycophant ?