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Author Topic: Assumption College  (Read 8061 times)

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Offline hero

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Assumption College
« on: February 01, 2006, 01:37:43 pm »
Here's another couple of snippets from the old TSW board regarding another of Bangkok's more high-profile private schools.

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Assumption College

Assumption College, St. Louis. Rung Rean Kwai. The director made a comment to parents at a meeting attended by 1000's of parents that they were lucky to have "boys" attend their school because if they had girls and could not attend the schools they will turn out to be hookers and prostitutes. I worked there years ago when they had a different idiot working there as the principal who now is the principal of the Assumption school in Thornburi. Like all Thai prestigious schools, "it sucks". Farang teachers were never told about days off, meetings, or anything that went on in the school. The Assumptions schools, all of them are living on their reputation from 100 years ago. They are only interested in taking the money and demand (under the table) kick backs. This is true for all of the so-called best schools in Thailand. I think the 'Stickman" once said, "The worst school in the slums of Liverpool are better than the best schools in Thailand.

And a bit more here from another post.

Quote
Assumption

The other poster's rant about BCC brought back memories of working at Assumption St Louis Prathom not long ago. Not as terrible sounding as BCC (and I do know folks who work there--some like it, others don't), but with its own inherent absurdities.

The Thai administration are terribly two-faced. No surprise, they have their status to attend to.

The students are all boys and thus, for the most part, absolutely horrible.

The Thai teachers are a mixed bag: some nice, some nice one day and ignore you the next; others never look at you. The first day of school I wai'd an older teacher. He walked up to me, took my hands and put them down--gently, at least. From observing the Thai teachers in class I'd say most of them have long ago given up real teaching. Some of the stuff I saw go on in the Thai classrooms was quite surprising.....


Offline pauleddy

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2006, 10:51:02 am »
Any more views about Assumption?

They have 13 places incl. Ass.Uni in BKK and De Montfort in CMai.

I am particularly interested in finding out about all campuses/schools run by them (especially Sri Racha/Rayong/Coast) as I am considering sending in a CV. A friend has worked at the Sri Racha school. He describes it as relaxed, well-run, great campus and facilities, religion not pushed at you, etc. OK, it is private, but the rich kids seem OK and keen. The salary and conditions seem above average. He had no problems there.

Yet, on the old board, there was a lot of denigration......

????????

Thanks

P

Offline hammered

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2006, 03:59:04 pm »
Teachers I know who have worked at Assumption Sri Racha (several) basically all left fairly quickly. They mentioned discipline problems of the kids, a teach the top ten and forget the other 40 in the class tendency and politics. Second hand info though.

Offline Due Diligence

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2006, 08:31:03 am »
Has anyone else heard something really bad about Assumption Bangrak recently???
It is concerning how they are screwing the new teacher in what I would describe as a real shock and probably the worse treatment I've ever heard.

Offline pauleddy

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2006, 08:52:28 am »
I only know about the SriRacha campus. A friend has worked there. He says that the grounds etc. are really nice (rural setting). The religious guys (Brothers) who run it do not bother you overmuch. OK, it is middle/rich kid land but he said that most are keen. The money is good,over 35k plus BUPA etc. My friend had to do a basic EFL course about 20 contact periods a week. He said that he wasn't rushed off of his feet. As with most of these places, you couldn't piss off at lunchtime, but there was cable internet etc. He had a good experience, it would seem. I was thinking of bunging a CV their way.........

Eddy

Offline hero

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2006, 11:13:04 am »
Quote from: Due Diligence
Has anyone else heard something really bad about Assumption Bangrak recently???
It is concerning how they are screwing the new teacher in what I would describe as a real shock and probably the worse treatment I've ever heard.

Any more information on this? ;)

Offline Due Diligence

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2006, 11:37:37 am »
Well I heard from a teacher that works at Assumption Bangrak that:

The Brother was busy and then will be going to Chaing Mai for a while.

What problem is this you ask?

Well the teachers was called to the office and told.
1. They can't get a non-imm B from the school as the Brother is not avaliable to sign for it.
2. They will have to work on tourist visas for 3 months untill Brother comes back.
3. Untill they have non-imm B and workpermit the school will deduct *000 baht  a month from salary.
4. Also untill they pass probation they will not sign a contract with them.

They was told that Brother likes to do things right so thats why they have to wait for him to sign documents for non-imm B application.

So all in all the new teachers will be illegally working, have reduced salary and no contract. 
These teachers have also been working there for 3-4 weeks before this announcment on the summer camp classes so at what time can't  Brother have signed the documents etc.

Anyone else heard this shocking story??

Offline hero

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2006, 12:21:16 pm »
Not heard it before, sounds like the year's off to a good start there then {-} Do they pay well?

Offline pauleddy

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2006, 06:45:31 pm »
I heard that the SriRacha place pays 35k and up to 40 or 42k with master's. Also Bupa and allegedly cover all Non-Imm costs. Also 8-10 weeks' paid hols. But, you have to clock in and hang around, which is the norm I guess

I remain bemused because of bad reputation on here, yet good reports conveyed by a friend. I have no axe to grind, and currently do not work for this school or any other. Maybe the SriRacha branch is better than the BKK one, or the CMai one, who knows?

I would particularly like to hear 1st.-hand from someone at SR or ex-SR

P Ed ???

Offline hero

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2006, 07:32:34 pm »
The majority of the reports here (and certainly on the old TSW board) concern the Assumption school(s) in Bangkok as far as I know.  As proven on all the bad school threads, there are always some people who disagree - very few schools get only negative reports.  How about getting some solid info from your friend? (You could even post it up here for us all to see {-})

Offline Due Diligence

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2006, 09:23:47 am »
Just to clarify the comments I have made, are for the teachers who will start this school year the older teachers I think are fine.
So maybe its a once off cause the staff are to scared to have asked Brother for his signiture.  But something tells me that if a school can screw someone once and they except they will do it again the next year etc.

But even if it's a once off its still worth mentioning to just inform.


Offline pauleddy

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2006, 04:48:00 pm »
Yes, I agree, and thanks for that and all other snippets posted.

Further advice always welcomed.

PEd

Offline TexasDave

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2006, 05:56:08 pm »
I was employed at Assumption College Sriracha until November of 2005. I was a science teacher there in the secondary level. I have only positive things about Assumption College Sriracha. I now work in Bangkok at an internatiopnal school.
Assumption College Sriracha Payed for all of the expenses involved with the visa and work permit. I did not have to worry about anything, it was all taking care of.
The teaching staff that worked with us were very helpful and assisted us with copying and getting necessary teaching materials, it was like having your own secretary. During my free periods I was allowed to take care of personal business without question.
While I worked there I had a severe leg fracture and was hospitalized and had to spend a total of 30 days at home. All of my medical bills were covered under the BUPA policy that was provided by the school. The amazing thing was that they payed my salary. Most Thai schools I have worked at would not have paid me for the time spent at home.
The great thing is that the supervisors leave you alone and allow you to make decisions for yourself. The leader of the english program there is very kind and soft spoken but willing to help you in any way she can.
If you are thinking of working here it will be one of the easiset schools to teach at that you will find in Thailand.
 I would like to emphasize that I no longer work there but would recommend this school to anyone. If you would like to contact me about this school please feel free.
                                                              David Smith

Offline MrQ

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2006, 09:35:46 am »
They have other schools under their wings as well such as St. Louis Chacheongsao

Offline pauleddy

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2006, 02:00:12 pm »
Yes it appears so.

If you google it, there are about 11 different parts including Assumption Uni, Ass. Rayong, De Montfort CMai, Ass. junior near St Louis etc.

Perhaps different parts have different reputations. I have heard generally good reports about the Sri Racha place. I have heard that the Catholics don't bother you too much, that the facilities and conditions are good, and that the kids are not bad considering that they are middle-to-rich kids....i.e. a bit lazy but not the worst. I am not sure whether it is a boarding school...and if that makes things worse or better??

P. Ed ???

Offline AssumeNada

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2006, 09:15:43 pm »
"Just to clarify the comments I have made, are for the teachers who will start this school year the older teachers I think are fine.
So maybe its a once off cause the staff are to scared to have asked Brother for his signiture.  But something tells me that if a school can screw someone once and they except they will do it again the next year etc.

But even if it's a once off its still worth mentioning to just inform."




Once off? Hardly. An outrageous wrong that gets worse on an almost daily basis? Read on, friends. I am making the comments below after speaking with five new teachers here. Being old hands at the teaching game in Thailand, several of them were smart enough to make both audio and video recordings of most of what I describe below. I have seen these recordings and they are quite damning to the administration of Assumption College and would probably carry considerable weight, should this go to court. After several years here, I have many stories to tell. This is the first one. I may tell some others, depending on how this works out.

I am writing this report on the behalf of five teachers recently hired by Assumption College, located on Charoenkreung Rd, near the intersection of Silom Rd. While I am not one of the five, I see and work with all of them on a daily basis. I have been at this school for more than 1 year. I am writing this because I am astonished and dismayed at what this school has done to my colleagues. I feel I must speak out for them because they have no voice and I fear for what will happen to the rest of us, should Assumption College be allowed to get away with what they are attempting.

The five teachers were hired in the middle of March, 2006, for the EP Mathayom division. All five were interviewed by the same committee on the same day and all were offered positions. The school informed them that they would start on 27 March, the first day of summer school. All five were told that they would be receiving 60,000 baht/month, plus a 5,000 baht/month housing allowance.

Of the five, three are experienced teachers who had not worked for Assumption before. These three were hired to teach physics, English and chemistry. The other two were transfers from other divisions of the school. one from the EP Prathom and one from one of the non-EP divisions. These two Assumption employees were hired to teach mathematics and English, respectively

All of the teachers are qualified, with bona fide degrees and with prior teaching experience adding up to more than thirty-five years between them. All of the teachers had, at the time of hiring, non-immigrant-B visas, teacher?s licenses and work permits. These documents were/are expiring at the beginning, middle or end of April for four of the five. These teachers needed signed contracts to take to immigration to extend their non-imm B visas. 2 of the teachers spoke of this necessity at their interviews. All were assured that it would not be a problem. One teacher, the one whose visa expired 1 April, went to the office on a daily basis to inquire about the contract. He was repeatedly assured that it was in the works, just waiting for a signature from ?Brother?, the Catholic director of this Catholic school.

On the third day of school, these five colleagues of mine were called to a meeting, attended by the head of EP, (since removed to another position. Last night, he told students in an online discussion group that he resigned, but he was actually replaced), the woman who did the actual hiring and a woman who has now been made head of EP. The five teachers were quite happy, assuming that big Brother had finally signed their contracts. Their spirits were even more buoyed as the woman who did the hiring, ?A?, started the meeting by saying how lucky the school was, after having suffered with a high turnover rate, to have finally found such a qualified, professional group of true educators.

Those hopes were quickly dashed, as ?A? made the following incredible announcement (?voice of ?A?):

1.   The school made a mistake during hiring. The interview committee was not the proper committee and the five teachers were never observed teaching, as there were no students there during hiring.
2.   Therefore, contracts will not be issued for three months. You will have to obtain tourist visas during that time.
3.   Because we cannot confirm your validity as teachers, we will only be paying you 60,000 baht/month, withholding 5,000 baht/month until the MoE issues new teacher?s licences.

Obviously, the new teachers were dumbstruck at this pronouncement. The school made a mistake in hiring and therefore the teachers would have to lose their non-imm-B visas and work illegally on tourist visas? ?Cannot Brother simply sign something that looks like a contract, something that would satisfy immigration until the real contract can be had?, they asked? No, they were told. ?BROTHER INSISTS ON DOING THINGS BY THE BOOKS.?  What?!!?

The teachers were assured twice during that meeting that the school, while not paying for their visa runs, would not dock them for school days missed for visa runs (at 3000 baht/day missed, the normal penalty for a sick day!). Note: this was rescinded later at another meeting described below.

OK, pretty bad. Teachers now have to work illegally and suffer the cost of monthly visa runs. Could be worse.

It is. MUCH worse!

On Monday, 17 April, the teachers were again called to a meeting. Breathing a sigh of relief that all was now right with the world, they eagerly anticipated meeting with Brother. But Brother was not there. Instead, it was the same group of Thais who were at the original meeting, plus a new guy who has recently been promoted and apparently needed to flex his muscles. He actually resembles a small insect, in particular, an ant.

The teachers were told that, because of the mistakes the school made during hiring, they were not yet formal teachers and would have to go through the hiring process again. Bad enough, but then the stunner, the item that instantly puts Assumption College in the Hall of Shame, the thing that schools should ever do.:

They were told that, because they don?t have formal contracts and are not really teachers, Assumption would only pay the, 25,000 baht of the promised 65,000! Yes, read that again. They could not believe it either. One of the teachers went so far as to call them liars. Another used the word ?thieves? at some point. The Thai people kept trying to justify this on the basis that a ?mistake was made? in hiring. After much semi-heated discussion, the Thais left the room, came back and said they really wanted to help these new teachers and that they would make sure that the new teachers received 30,000 of the promised 65,000!!  Everybody left stunned. Couldn?t get any worse than that, right?

Oh, but it can. Much worse.

On Tuesday, 18 April,  the five were called up to the office, where the Thai staff attempted to extort them to sign a paper stating that the new ?committee? had agreed to pay them 30,000 baht. One teacher signed on the spot. One teacher signed and told them he was leaving at the end of summer school. One teacher was not there. One teacher had his ?signature? entered in pencil by one of the Thais. The other teacher said he had to think about it.

On Thursday, 20 April, the teachers who had not signed were again called to the office. The paper was again presented to them, along with a pen and the terse statement ?Sign now?. This is literally what happened. There is video of it. One of the teachers asked why and was told that it was a pay agreement. When he responded that he already had a pay agreement from them, he was told he would BE PAID NOTHING, if he did not sign. He was also offered that when the new contracts were issued next week, the days worked in April would be counted as his entire probation period. He was also told that he would be paid 25 April, as are all teachers at Assumption. He responded with a smile, saying that when all of these agreements were put in writing and signed, he would consider their offer again.

He was met with raised voices by the Thais. He was told that, if he didn?t sign, he could not be considered for ?rehire? next week. One of them turned and walked away. The other one told the teacher not to speak to him anymore, but to speak only to ?A?. Later on Thursday, ?A? told this teacher to go and sign after lunch. She also told him that, because it was her mistake, she had been told that any money that had to be paid over the 30K would be deducted from her salary!

Why would they do this? We are all astounded. This seems to represent a new, rapid, downhill slide for Assumption. Fortunately, these teachers have videotape and the original ads for their positions. There is still some hope that this will be righted when Brother returns from Spain. After all, this is a Catholic institution and the Catholics generally follow the Bible and the Ten Commandments, two of which are ?Thou shalt not lie? and ?Thou shalt not steal?.

***Some speculation follows. Everything preceeding has been fact***
Many of the students? parents are refusing to pay the summer school tuition (fact), saying they were forced to send their kids to a program after the school failed them (fact). Since this is a for-profit institution, rather than a for-education institution, this money has to be made up from somewhere (speculation).

There are some more details to this story, and several more stories, but they will have to wait for another post.

Offline blackpanther

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2006, 09:42:56 pm »
OMG!!!

I applied for that job as well. Thankfully they never got back to me....


I hope you take their thieving sneaky Thai asses to the cleaners!

Hua-hin-prof

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2006, 10:46:35 pm »
Well, it looks like we know why it is called "Assumption."  You can work there under the "Assumption," that you will get cheated.  Some of these "Christian" Schools add legitimacy to used car salesmen.

Offline pauleddy

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2006, 07:51:30 am »
Amazing!

I know two guys who work at Assumption (different campuses). Both of them seem very happy.

One of these guys has 21 years of experience, and an M Ed, in addition to many other quals. The other guy has recently been promoted, in the sense that he gets a better salary for undertaking admin/co-ordination. Both of these guys started out earning around 35-40k, and now take a bit more. Even with their experience etc., they have NEVER been offered 60k, nor would they expect to be. I have spoken to both of them during the past day.

They both seem happy. The terms and conditions seem fine, including BUPA, free lunches, 10 weeks PAID holidays etc. One lives on campus in a free apartment, clean and newly-built.

I have heard from another guy on here who suffered a bad accident (off-campus) whild he was working for AC. He was well looked after. The BUPA covered everything, and he was paid his salary too.

I am not setting out to be partisan or opinionated here. I just cannot understand the disparities. One lot of teachers gnashing teeth, the other lot happy as the proverbial PiS.

I think we should be told. ???

Offline Due Diligence

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2006, 10:06:52 am »
Well I think if the teachers confront the Brother with video evidence, their  contracts or something else might disappear. 
But what has happened deserves more than the hall of shame.

I applied but never had an interview. So I was lucky. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they will have a problem getting the promised 60+k after they have been paid 30K for a few months.  With no contracts signed and working illegally the school has them by the short and curlies if they continue to work there.

I know the (original money is good etc) but maybe they should find new jobs and screw the school. 
I'm still getting calls from school even though my posted resume is 3 weeks old.

Offline Rumpole

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2006, 02:49:10 pm »
With no contracts signed and working illegally the school has them by the short and curlies if they continue to work there.
I know the (original money is good etc) but maybe they should find new jobs and screw the school.?


And herein lies the crux of the matter.   Why on earth would qualified and experienced teachers subject themselves to all this nonesense?  Just walk, people.  There are plenty of jobs around and your horizons are not even limited to Thailand.  I would have been out of the door after the first, nasty little episode.  Leave the Thais to rot in their own dungheap.

Offline blackpanther

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2006, 01:29:29 pm »
Some teachers must have left...


Assumption contacted me today and asked me to come for interview  ;D


Offline Due Diligence

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2006, 02:32:01 pm »
So are you going to take the job? 

Sounds like an oppurtunity to me.   

Offline blackpanther

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2006, 05:25:18 pm »
^^^^Let  me think about it.








no  {<>

Offline pauleddy

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2006, 09:04:58 am »
Which campus has asked you to come in??

Offline blackpanther

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2006, 10:14:31 am »
Bangrak


Offline Due Diligence

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2006, 01:59:32 pm »
I also have had another confirmation of the diabolical exploits of their Administration to their  new teachers.

Originally the horror was that they couldn't get workpermits or visas untill Brother came back. and that they wouldn't sign a contract until after probation period.

Earlier this month the teachers were called to the office to be told the interview was a mistake and they will have to reapply for their jobs. WTF. Well it gets worse they was also told as they can't verify they are teachers then the school will pay them 25k a month (later increased to 30k).  This is from their originally agreed salaries of 65k. So WTFF.

One teacher has walked I guess as they called Blackpanther for interview.


Offline Shatapon

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2006, 05:48:34 pm »
Ha! And I thought it was bad over here at BCC!

I tlalked to one of those "Famous Five" over the weekend. He said that parents are starting to become aware of the situation. When students start dropping out, maybe that's when the Christian admin over there (are all Christian admins hypocritical assholes?) will start asking what they did wrong. Assumption now appears to be another school with a supposed big name that is just skating by on its reputation. Sooner or later, these places are bound to fail, especially as they seem to insist on hiring the lowest quality teachers they can find. Not that the five are bad teachers, but ... How the hell do you guys put up with that crap? Surely you are all going to walk, no?


Can't the head of the school sort this out for all of you? I hear he prides himself on being a Catholic.

Offline Notanewbie

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2006, 01:57:38 pm »
If half of the accusations made against this school are true it deserves to be at the top of the list for the hall of shame and boycotted by all teachers. A lesson one can take from this is, to never allow yourself to be in a position where a school can pull this kind of crap on you. Always have enough stashed away that you can walk even of it means giving up a few weeks or even a month's pay. If the school promised me 65 and tried to pay me 30, I would be out of there so fast it would make your head swim. Seems to me this is the main purpose of this forum,  to expose stunts like this to prevent others for falling for the same setup. I wouldn't automatically assume that any posting on an internet forum is gospel truth, but the posting seemed credible enough to me to suggest anyone thinking about woring this this outfit to be very very careful.

Offline bkkman

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2006, 06:06:04 pm »
I agree with Notanewbie ..... if you can afford to miss a few paychecks, WALK.

This is an outrageous and aggregious insult and dishonesty that should not be allowed to go without consequences.......like walking after you are paid and let them be with teacherless classrooms scrambling to fill positions with whatever walks in the door.

As readers here know, I am a supporter and employee at BCC. And my remarks there have come home to roost. If we as guests of Thailand expect too much, we will be disappointed and it is no one's fault but our own. This case is an example of what SHOULD be expected; to be paid in the amount and the time promised. Period. Everything else barring gross insults or public abuse is irrelevant IMO. Don't try to change the school, the education system, Thailand or it's culture and everyone will be happier for it.

We who have lived here a while know that honesty is much lower on the behavior priority list for Thais than it is for us. Fortunately, most lies are quite harmless. But some are not like those in this case.

I would hope this gets corrected when the Brother returns from his trip.

Keep us posted AssumeNada.
 

Offline way2muchcoffee

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2006, 10:38:51 am »
I am one of those five teachers involved in the Assumption Bangrak Scandal

I have never been treated by any school with such outrageous disregard for ethics, morals, and the law. This is, by far, the worst experience I have ever had in Thailand - and I have been here four years now.  Yesterday was the reinterview and I came out from this feeling demoralized and enraged by the lack of consideration the administrators had for the new teachers and the situation the school put them in.  Their attitudes effectively poured salt in the already open wound which they created.

For my part, I showed up, taught the classes, completed the paperwork all to the highest degree that my professionalism demands of me.  I did not get this back in return.  I have no classes today and I did not go.  I received a call just now asking where I am and checking to make sure I will finish the grading and return their property (a laptop).  In my thinking the laptop computer is equivalent in value to the monies the school 'stole' from me.  However, that would show a lack of integrity and is an action that I am not willing to stoop to.

So what will I do?

I will return their property.  I will teach my last classes tomorrow.  I will even stay late to finish the marking for their gradebooks.   Why?   I don't really know.   But these things I will do.  I have already accepted another position at a very good school.  In fact I called to accept the position within minutes of leaving the interview yesterday.  I will leave the school with a clean conscience and begin my new job.  I will absolutely file a grievance with the Ministry of Education Thailand.  As far as legal action is concerned I am as yet undecided.

To all teachers:  Stay as far away from Assumption College Bangrak as possible.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 10:51:12 am by way2muchcoffee »

Offline eng upon asia

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2006, 08:48:23 pm »
The allegations which have been made against Asuumption Bangrak are of a very serious nature. As the five teachers involved state that they have audio and video recordings , i would ask them to make the recordings public, if possible through the internet. If the allegations are true then i must say that Assumption college should be boycotted by all the foreign teachers en masse. This is the only recourse which comes to my mind. As far as the school economics go, schools like Assumtion can easily afford to pay 60 ks to qualified teachers. By paying 30-40 ks , they are saving a lot of money which is only adding to their bulging coffers ,and paying for the extravegant and luxurious life styles of a few, chosen brothers. If , after fully ascertaining the truth , we decide to fully boycott schools like A, only then will we be teaching them a lesson of their lifetime. Also only then will forums like this one be of Real effect.
Total boycott is the call. 

Mods-Rockers

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2006, 10:12:36 pm »
its my understanding that Thai contract law states that a verbal contract has equal standing to a written one, unless the written one contradicts the verbal when its the written contract that has precedence.

Offline way2muchcoffee

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2006, 11:14:17 pm »
Thanks to all teachers for the support and comments.  This has been a bit of an ordeal for me.  We have all heard horror stories and experienced this kind of thing with varying degrees of severity - even if it's as simple as the two-tiered pricing system. 

As far as verbal contracts and the courts go it seems like it would become one group's word against another.   And a priest's word is inviolate in this country.  At least that has been my experience.  The video would help, but I have no clue about the admissibility of this kind of thing in a court of law.  Given the general levels of corruption and nepotism we see all the time here I don't have much faith in the legal system (but perhaps i am overly cynical).

The video does indeed exist.  It was taken with a mobile phone but it is not in my possession.  But in the end, I've got to ask myself if it is worth fighting over.  How much hassle will it be?  Are there potential negative consequences that may come to me becuase of the choice to pursue legal action?  What are the chances of recouping that money?  The whole thing is rather unappealing. 

I am angry but I feel rather helpless.  Actually the overriding emotions I feel are disappointment, sadness, and pity.  I went into the position fully intending to do the job to the best of my abilities and to remain there for a long time.  The boys I taught this summer were great.  I love teaching.  It saddens me that this happened.  The students lose a quality, career-teacher.  I lose a rather high-paying job and what I was looking at as a kind of home for the next few years.  Everyone suffers because of actions like these - the teachers, students, parents, and even the school administrators, although they don't realize it.   

As stated before I do intend to inform the Ministry of Education and perhaps the Ministry of Labor.  If anyone has information as to how I should go about doing that I'd appreciate it.   

Offline hero

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2006, 11:57:04 pm »
Good luck is all I can offer I'm afraid.  I'm not sure who the resident legal expert is on this board as yet ???

Offline Dumbo

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2006, 08:06:51 am »
You might have better luck with the video and higher-ups in the church, don't you think? There is a hierarchy in the church. The head of the order in Thailand? What about the head of the order in Asia? Worldwide? At least if you get to the higher-ups and let them have a chance to deny you then you will heap hot coals on them when they go to hell. Check out the ierarchy, in the Catholic church, everyone has a boss.

Offline Due Diligence

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2006, 03:17:55 pm »
Email the pope can't get any higher (mortally anyway) than him.  Best bet is to find a lawyer and ask their opinion, show them your evidence etc.

If you did stick it out at the school and tried to get your money then you will will be out before probation or afer 1 year at the most.


Offline sabai_sabai

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2006, 01:57:16 pm »
This appeared in my inbox a few days ago:

Quote
Thank you for your interest in working at a Saint Gabriel?s Foundation school in Thailand.
 
I?ve just been informed of the following vacancies for English Programme (EP) teaching positions available beginning 9th May, 2006 in Bangkok at Assumption College (Bangkok) Secondary Section.  Please find information attached.
 
(2) Computer teachers, (grades 7-9 and 10-11)
(1) Mathematics (grades 10-11)
(1) English (grades 7-11)
(1) Health studies & PE (grades 10-11)
(1) Physics (grades 10-11)
(1) Science & Biology (grades 7-9)
 
Interviews will be held on the 3rd of May at the school.  Please e-mail or call me if you are interested in attending to make an appointment for that day.
 
The remuneration package at AC (S) EP includes 60,000 baht per month salary and BUPA medical insurance plus 5,000 baht housing allowance.
 
EP teachers should possess at least one of the following qualifications:
a) Bachelor of Education (3 years full time)
b) 15 education related university credits
c) Degree in a related field and (1 year full time) Diploma or Certificate of Education
d) Master of Education degree
e) Qualified Teacher Status or State Teaching License in an English speaking country
 
Teachers who do not possess one of these qualifications may still be considered for a position in the EP provided they have other relevant qualifications and experience, the salary level will be the same as native English speaking teachers in the school?s ENS programme ? 48,000 baht per month plus benefits.
 
The teachers would be expected to undertake all the teaching and extra curricular duties of a teacher in a Secondary school including teaching up to 21 periods per week and attending school 7:45 - 4:00pm on weekdays.
 
For further information please take a look at the school website:
http://ac.assumption.ac.th/index.php (in Thai)
 
http://acp.assumption.ac.th/ep/home.htm (Assumption College Primary section English Programme website ? in English)
 
http://www.sgf.au.edu/background.html - Information about the parent organisation of Assumption College Bangkok.
 
Please could you e-mail or call to arrange an interview at the school if you are currently in Thailand and would be interested in applying
 
In support of your application, please could you also send scanned / faxed copies of:
 
a)    passport photo page,
b)  all educational certificates including degree and teaching certification,
c)  3 referees details (fax, e-mail & postal) including most recent employer who will be contacted in due course.
d) full updated CV
 
If there?s any further information you require please don?t hesitate to contact me.
 
Kindest regards,
 
Cxxxxxxxxxx Pxxxxxxxxx, BA, CTEFLA, Dip.TESOL, Dip.CoT, MCoT,
Foreign Recruitment & Training Centre,
St. Gabriel?s Foundation Building, 4th floor,
2 Soi Thong Lor 25,
Sukhumwit 55,
Klong Ton Nua, Wattana,
Bangkok 10110

Same promises, huh. 

If (and ONLY if)  all the folks that worked at the school on this thread say it's okay, I am happy to send them a link to this as my reply.


Offline BkkJoe

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2006, 02:28:39 pm »
I interviewed at Assumption College High School (at the end of Sathorn Road near the Oriental Hotel).? I spoke with 2 teachers from there.? One claimed it was the best job in Bangkok.? The other had a totally different tale including the salary cut in half, the contract revoked, being forced to work on a tourist visa while the school worked on the 'new' contract and a host of broken promises (graphically summarized here).

While the interview itself was disconcerting, the part that raised my concern was being told teachers would be notified about the job by May 8.? What they did not mention (which the job posting stresses), is the teaching term starts May 9.? That leaves no time for proper visa processing and gives much credibility to the 2nd teacher's story.

I appreciate the information posted here because I was excited about the position.? Can anyone comment about how common or
 acceptable it is to be asked to work on a tourist visa while the school prepares your documentation?

Offline NukeThemSlowly

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2006, 02:36:28 pm »
The Assumption group has long had a history of screwing teachers on pay at all levels after making agreements and then blaming it on "misunderstandings," "poor administrative practices," "mistakes," and so forth.  It is high time they were thoroughly and publicly humiliated over their fraudulent and dishonest practices.

Hua-hin-prof

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2006, 03:01:49 pm »
Can anyone comment about how common or acceptable it is to be asked to work on a tourist visa while the school prepares your documentation?

Yes, it is all too common.  It is acceptable for the school, but unfortunately, not for the Ministry of Labour.  Fine could be 1000 Baht per day worked without permit.  Are they going to give you time off for the required trip outside of Thailand to get your Non-Immigrant B?  Are they going to pay for this trip--8-12K Baht?

If they breach their contract (as they have been known to do), you will have very little recourse as an illegal worker.  I have never set foot on the Assumption Campus, and after reading the posts about the school, I would make them pay me in advance.

Offline Bangkok Phil

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2006, 07:46:42 pm »
Well done Joe for tracking down and speaking to two teachers there on your interview day. Speaking to current teaching staff is essential and not enough interviewees do it.
If a school tries to prevent you from speaking to other teachers - they probably have something to hide.

Uncle Che

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2006, 04:48:07 pm »
I might add that you would do well to talk to them beyond the confines of the school walls. Again, you won't get all the dirt, but even mid-level schools keep their teachers on a short leash in regards to bonuses and paying final salary. Some teachers prefer to keep their mouth zipped because you never know if the new guy will refuse the job by saying" Teacher XXXX told me that the school sucks so I dont want to teach here anymore."


Offline way2muchcoffee

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Resolution
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2006, 07:54:52 pm »
Just taking a minute to report back on the situation. 

To all of our surprise, the school today paid out the entire monies owed to the 5 teachers involved in the summer situation.  This action was a welcome resolution to the problem and indicated a sincere desire by the school to clear up the mess that was made in our cases.   I am happy that this is now over.   

Given the actions of the school today I now retract my earlier statement suggesting teachers stay as far away from the school as possible.  I can now say that the school, having fully realized the error and it's consequences, made reasonable efforts to correct the problem.  I am satisfied.   

Thanks to all of you who read and or responded to this thread.   

Mods-Rockers

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2006, 09:30:43 pm »
nice to hear.

Lets hope this new leaf is long lasting

Offline Due Diligence

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2006, 06:38:33 pm »
Schools started so what is the situation?

Offline DW

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Re: Resolution
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2006, 04:47:45 pm »

Given the actions of the school today I now retract my earlier statement suggesting teachers stay as far away from the school as possible.  I can now say that the school, having fully realized the error and it's consequences, made reasonable efforts to correct the problem.  I am satisfied.   


To my mind I wouldnt change my mind at all.  All that seems to have happened is that the school has ballsed up and has shown a long and sad record of ballsing it up  and IN THIS INSTANCE have backed down.  Will they do it next time?  Do you really want to take the chance?

Offline Due Diligence

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2006, 04:54:59 pm »
What about the actual issues

Teachers on tourist visas (solved??????)

Teachers told they will only get 30k not 70k a month (solved?????)

Teachers can sign contracts now not after 3 months (solved?????)

Just deciding that they are wrong and paying the teachers for the money they already have been owed is not resolution it still doesn't adress the other above issues.

So what are the Teacher's situation?

Offline AssumeNada

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2006, 09:58:23 pm »
What about the actual issues

Teachers on tourist visas (solved??????)

Teachers told they will only get 30k not 70k a month (solved?????)

Teachers can sign contracts now not after 3 months (solved?????)

Just deciding that they are wrong and paying the teachers for the money they already have been owed is not resolution it still doesn't adress the other above issues.

So what are the Teacher's situation?

Teachers still working on tourist visas. Paperwork has been started to (re)obtain non-imm-Bs. At least 1 teacher now has the B. 1 teacher was sent to Lao. Of course, he was missing a document, so NO VISA! Sorry guy, cost is on you, plus school deducted three days pay for his trouble. Come on, admin: THIS IS YOUR JOB!! DO IT RIGHT! And don't penalize the guy. Some teachers now entering their fourth month without proper visas or the proper paperwork to obtain the visa.

Suggestion to admin: Get all of the papers needed. Do whatever you need to do to restore the legal status of these teachers. Bend over backwards to straighten this out, toute suite. And, for Christ's sake, don't charge them for their visa runs, as you told them at last week's staff meeting, you will do.

Missing money has been "found" and returned. Thanks, bro.

Returning teachers mostly have a "partial" contract. New teachers still have NOTHING. School admin is still trying to sort out how to balance the proposed contract with Thai law, as was evident at last week's staff meeting. Example:

Farang: Contract says 5 sick days, Thai law says ten.
Admin: We have our own policies.
Farang: Will the school follow the law as written?
Admin: We will look into it and get back to you.

Still no get back. As this is just one of the issues needed to finally get the contracts out, one would think that this issue would have been resolved by the next day at the latest.

Suggestion to admin: Make sure your contract is in accordance with Thai law. Do it NOW!

Other interchange:

F: Why are we being assigned more than our contracted hours?
A: It is difficult to find qualified teachers.

Note to admin r.e. qualified teachers: You had them. You abused them. You lost them. You are now hurting both the staff and the students.

Suggestion TO ADMIN: take the 65K/month that you are pocketing for each teacher not hired and distribute it to the teachers who are covering for you- INSTEAD OF DEPOSITING IT IN YOUR OWN BANK ACCOUNTS.

Many other issues, but we who are not first year teachers at ACB know that the wheels turn slowly. Looks like the new hires are starting to learn that, too! Our new colleagues are most affected by the problems, but it is starting to become painful for we "old-timers", too.



Offline ajarn

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2006, 02:52:38 pm »
The best of luck with ACB. At some of the "colleges", the job does seem to follow vaguely in the heels of the advertisements, but there are many times and many victims of their lies. As a poster noted earlier, they are supposed to be Christian and Catholic. What a shame they can't have the nexessary faith in their teachers to be honest in their dealings...

Offline Thighlander

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2007, 04:12:22 pm »
I was called by Assumption College in Chonburi the other day.  They are paying 35K plus "accomodations", no help with Non-B expenses.  Is this the same bunch of Jokers?  I wonder how much they charge for electricity in the "free accomodations"?


Offline Geekboy

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2007, 04:39:16 pm »
I've heard that the AC in Chonburi is better than others and not a bad place to work.

Offline los_teacher

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2007, 05:39:14 pm »
I've actually heard the same as Geekboy.

Stay away from Assumption Bangrak though

Offline ajarn1970

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2007, 03:14:50 pm »
Does anyone have any information about working at their University in BKK?

It seems they're after English instructors on their website, but then again, how up to date is the website?

Any ideas?   ???

Offline anyonefortennis

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2007, 05:16:27 pm »
Depends what faculty / school of Assumption (ABAC) you'd be working for and also where.

The graduate school was ok and is still in Ramkamhaeng(sp!) I think rather than the Bangna campus, and going back a few years they had the extra English classes for undergrads in Ramkamhaeng as well, so extra classes were easy to come by.

Graduate students were nice enuff, however some of the undergrads were (quite likely still are).............well, spoilt brats would be putting it kindly.

This is a private university, and in some schools there was unreasonable pressure put on ajarns for students to pass, regardless of performance. The admin office was ok, about two months too slow but they did get things done.

Please note that my comments are dated - by about 5 and a half years - I enjoyed most of my time their and I'd recommend you suck it and see.

p.s. There website should be very update, always used to be.

Offline bawpenyang

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2007, 05:49:30 pm »
Thai labour law states that an employee may have 30 sick days per year. Also make sure that your contracts are in Thai and English. Good luck!

Offline ajarnsarah

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2007, 08:01:52 am »
Assumption University is crap; save your time, money and sanity. The Assumption schools are also garbage; they lie, cheat and steel from their farang-employees. What Christian role-models –barff; what classic, high-so, Thai behavior -fact. If you want a good, teaching job in Thailand, go home and get certified to teach; however, if you want arrogant poop-for-brains disrespecting you, cheating you, and all out dumb-on-dumb, shallow, superficial, greedy, narcissistic wanna-be humans playing with your life with little or no regard for your well being... hang in there.

Well, once you get certified, do your research because I have worked at KIS International School for two years now and I feel used to say the least. NIST, ISB, Prem and a few others seem to be well liked by those who have worked there; very few other schools have that kind of rapport with their former employees. My days at KIS will soon be complete, and I can’t wait to say bye. I love Thailand, but working here is often/usually a nightmare. I wish you luck… See you in OZ. Sarah

Mods-Rockers

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2007, 11:00:49 am »
Assumption University is crap; save your time, money and sanity. The Assumption schools are also garbage; they lie, cheat and steel from their farang-employees. What Christian role-models –barff; what classic, high-so, Thai behavior -fact. If you want a good, teaching job in Thailand, go home and get certified to teach; however, if you want arrogant poop-for-brains disrespecting you, cheating you, and all out dumb-on-dumb, shallow, superficial, greedy, narcissistic wanna-be humans playing with your life with little or no regard for your well being... hang in there.
Ajarn Sarah, exactly on what basis do you make your claims? The above is written in such a way as to imply that you are working presently for either ABAC or the Assumption collages, or if not have d\some direct experience. If not then you are writing from past experiences and your info could well be out of date, Other posters have been kind enough to state how old their info is, could you also do the same? Exactly how do the schools cheat and steel [sic] from their employees? These are serious allegations, and more explanation would be nice, so that other teachers (qualified or not) can be on the look out for such practices.

Well, once you get certified, do your research because I have worked at KIS International School for two years now and I feel used to say the least. NIST, ISB, Prem and a few others seem to be well liked by those who have worked there; very few other schools have that kind of rapport with their former employees. My days at KIS will soon be complete, and I can’t wait to say bye. I love Thailand, but working here is often/usually a nightmare. I wish you luck… See you in OZ. Sarah

So from the second paragraph we can assume that your information is at least 2 years out of date, vis- -vis anything to do with Assumption. But at least the assumption group is owned by the ‘brothers’ and not the sister of a certain square faced ex politician!

Sadly-confused

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2007, 11:08:48 am »
Also make sure that your contracts are in Thai and English. Good luck!

Actually there is absolutely no need to do this! Thai contract law states that a contract may be in any language and have validity, but if contracts are duplicated in Thai and another language then only the Thai version has any validity. Its quite easy to give you a shitty contract in Thai, a good one in English and tell you they are the same, you sign both only to find that you are only covered by the shitty contract! Far better to take the unsigned Thai contract and have it independantly translated if you have suspicions beforehand, if the school agrees then chances are they have nothing to hide, if they prevaricate then draw your own conclusions!

Offline ajarnsarah

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2007, 05:31:20 am »
Hey Mods Rockers,

I attended Assumption University (Education Dept) recently; furthermore, I am friends with folks who are currently at AU in Education and I am friends with even more folks who bailed on the program because it was so bad.

I will clarify my earlier points here:

I am referring to the AU Education Faculty only. I do not have experience with any faculty outside of the Department of Education; I do not know of anyone who has anything bad to say about any other faulty; in fact, I hear some of good about several of the programs at AU. This is an important fact, and I apologize for the general nature of my first post.

As far as KIS International, people's opinions will vary. However, I will share that I have worked in more than one country as an education professional, and I have been here in the Kingdom for many years. I have a-more-than surface-level understanding of the various elements important to education professionals seeking employment in Thailand, OZ and abroad teaching in general. KIS is not a place I would recommend for parents to send their kids, or for teachers to invest their energy; also, I have other, political reasons that need only rest with me in this forum that would also beckon me to suggest an all out boycott of the school.

I can only say, “Investigate further if you want a better picture; why trust me to respond with truth? Maybe I am only a disgruntled employee on a revenge trip; maybe I am nutz.”

                                                                                                                     Sarah

Mods-Rockers

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2007, 12:04:24 pm »
Thank you!

Offline Anna Key

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2007, 09:51:17 am »

I can only say, “Investigate further if you want a better picture; why trust me to respond with truth? Maybe I am only a disgruntled employee on a revenge trip; maybe I am nutz.”

                                                                                                                     Sarah


Yes, you do sound like a disgruntled employee on a revenge trip. I don't think you are nuts though.  Just another cry baby.

Offline ajarnsarah

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #62 on: June 27, 2007, 06:17:04 pm »
Hey Anna Key Maa,

Did you ever attend AU Education?

Is having a negative opinion of AU Edu. dept. being a cry baby?

If you are so sure I am being a cry baby, then enlighten us with another opinion -please!

The fact is: is that AU in general and more specifically, the Education dept, is hyped-up by the locals and wrongly so; the professors are as dated as T-rex and the department is run willy nilly at best.

The graduates are going nowhere outside of Thailand and the vast majority of quality of students (implying western) quit in disgust. Dr. M and Dr. K are about as adept at running a dept for higher learning as W. Bush is at running the USA government and the Terror War.

The fact that you stoop to an immature and shallow personal attack rather than using your superior non-cry-baby mentality shows the lack of depth in your approach, demeanor, and most likely, your understanding of the subject at hand.

Cry baby or not, I have a first hand experience with ABAC's Diploma in Edu program, and I quit after a semester because I was learning very little. My fellow students played more hand-held video games than participated in class discussion, and after a short time, I brought a nice book to read in class because it was better for my learning. 

The Thais get very defensive of ABAC, but that is just another example of blind, national pride and big-brother style hype conditioning a collective-mind which is highly susceptible to it. The school is crap, and the locals who have been brain washed to think they are top dog do not want to face the reality that their understanding of ABAC is superficial, delusional, and based on the horrid cultural-flaw of the Gang Jai system.

I have to go dry my eyes because I have obviously been crying again rather than using my intellect to express my thoughts on a subject in this forum.

Bye Bye -Key Maa! Sarah "The Cry Baby"
     

Offline hero

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2007, 09:05:42 am »
I moved some silliness to another thread in Sour Gripes ....

http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/index.php/topic,1362.0.html

.... as you were!


Offline ladda_nonklong

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2007, 11:18:33 am »
AU in general and more specifically, the Education dept, is hyped-up by the locals and wrongly so; the professors are as dated as T-rex and the department is run willy nilly at best.

The graduates are going nowhere outside of Thailand and the vast majority of quality of students (implying western) quit in disgust. Dr. M and Dr. K are about as adept at running a dept for higher learning as W. Bush is at running the USA government and the Terror War.

....................................... ......................................

Cry baby or not, I have a first hand experience with ABAC's Diploma in Edu program, and I quit after a semester because I was learning very little. My fellow students played more hand-held video games than participated in class discussion, and after a short time, I brought a nice book to read in class because it was better for my learning. 

The Thais get very defensive of ABAC, but that is just another example of blind, national pride and big-brother style hype conditioning a collective-mind which is highly susceptible to it. The school is crap, and the locals who have been brain washed to think they are top dog do not want to face the reality that their understanding of ABAC is superficial, delusional, and based on the horrid cultural-flaw of the Gang Jai system.
     
Why is the course bad. I am thinking to do the education degree,  :o

Offline ajarnsarah

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2007, 11:29:12 am »
Khun Ladda,

I would suggest that you go and talk to folks in the program now; the degree will get red carpets rolled out for you in the Kingdom (maybe in your best interest), but the substance of the degree is lacking. Give it a try if you like, but if you love learning, you will be disappointed. Sawasdee Na Kaa, Sarah


Offline samvimes

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2007, 12:42:37 pm »
Sarah,

Most foreign teachers in Thailand know how bad ABAC is; the fact that they let people study in English without being able to understand the language in the first place; the fact that they just care about money; the fact they don't pay enough to attract decent teachers; I could go on and on.... By the most part, most graduates from ABAC are weak at best in English and at the subject  they have supposedly studied.

Anyway this topic is about Assumption College, not Assumption University and I agree with you about the faculty of education being run badly and if you want to start another thread about the Faculty of Education or ABAC (the university) please feel free, let's keep this thread on topic and related to Assumption College
« Last Edit: July 01, 2007, 12:43:49 pm by samvimes »

Offline ajarnsarah

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2007, 07:42:21 am »
Sorry, I did not realize there was a distinction between the College and the Uni? Sarah

Offline Anna Key

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2007, 09:06:52 am »
Sorry, I did not realize there was a distinction between the College and the Uni? Sarah

Says it all really...

Offline ajarnsarah

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2007, 10:30:57 am »
Key Maa,

Says it all?

Says nothing other than I was confused as to the distinction between ABAC and AU; I stand by my words about AU. I regret to have bad-mouthed the college not knowing the distinction from AU. Sarah


Offline Anna Key

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Re: Assumption College
« Reply #70 on: July 04, 2007, 09:53:47 am »
Says a lot really, old stick.

You see - ABAC and AU are one and the same institution. 

The school AC is Assumption College (Bangkok), also see ACT, ACSP, ACS, ACN, ACR, ACU, ACC, ACL, SG, etc etc ad infinitum, ad nauseum.  Presumably these are the Assumption colleges that you deem to be 'garbage' without being able to substantiate that statement to any credible degree.


 

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