Topic: New Visa Laws

[Rick]

Hey everyone, I think it is time to put aside the BS about schools and confront the new law changes. I've been here 4 years, have many friends who have had recent problems, and see many more on the horizon.

Lets get some clear cut explanations on what is going on, how to minimize damage, and adapt to the foreseeable future in Thailand. Looks like it is going to get worse before it gets better. Hate to be a doomsayer, but if you have been to Immigration within the last few days, then you know what I mean!!!! The screws are being turned as I speak!

China-Taiwan-Korea-Vietnam are looking pretty good right now. Just joking, but maybe alternatives might be worth keeping in out back pockets!!!!

Too bad we all couldn't get together and boycot, leave them high and dry, but that is wishful thinking.

So, what do you think? Any updates? Truths?

Rick

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Here's the latest news from The Nation.

Credit to Ajarn Miguk for the link:


Big impact expected from tougher visa-free entry rules

BANGKOK: -- The days of foreign visitors doing endless "border runs" in order to live - and often work - in Thailand are over, the Immigration Police announced yesterday.

The Kingdom will tighten its immigration rules for tourists who exploit visa-free regulations, starting from the end of the month.

The move will affect tens of thousands of visitors from 41 countries who have been allowed to stay in Thailand for up to 30 days without a visa - often for many months or years.

The 41 visa-exempt countries include Australia, the United Kingdom, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the United States.

Tourists have been able to extend their stay by travelling to neighbouring countries - Cambodia, Malaysia, Laos and Burma - and returning with a further 30-day entry stamp.

But new rules have been issued because an increasing number of tourists have stayed for extended periods - without paying proper amounts of tax. This has also helped them avoid close scrutiny by authorities here and in their homeland.

"We are trying to make it more difficult for bad people to get in," Immigration Police chief Lt General Suwat Thamrongsrisakul said at a press conference yesterday.

"I don't think it's going to hurt good people because they can apply for a tourist visa [in their homeland]," he said.

The move is expected to have a big impact on the foreign community and some sectors such as teaching and diving, plus places where there are many bars run by foreigners, such as Pattaya and Chiang Mai.

From October 1, tourists from the 41 visa-exempt countries may still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but they will only be able to extend their stay here two times - that is, for a maximum of 90 days.

And tourists who stay for 90 days must leave the Kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand.

Suwat denied the crackdown was related to the arrest in Bangkok last month of John Mark Karr, the American teacher who was thought to have been involved in the high-profile JonBenet Ramsey murder case. He said there were many reasons that extended back for a long period.

Suwat conceded the move may cause some problems, but said "maybe we have to do something to make it better [later]".

However, if foreigners wanted to work here they should get a work visa, he said.

A source added: "Under the current rules, people from these countries can stay in Thailand for as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year. Many work illegally in Thailand."

Instead of sightseeing, these tourists have taken advantage of the visa exemption by getting married to Thai women "for reasons other than love", and have conducted business here. Many of them have not paid tax.

The immigration move is a hot topic among foreign residents, and comes at a time when many are fearful about possible changes in regard to firms with local nominees.

Hundreds of comments were logged on local Web boards within hours of the Immigration Department press conference. Some said foreigners should abandon Thailand for neighbouring countries, while others predicted it might force school bosses to pay foreign teachers a proper wage or cause a boom in men wanting to marry Thai women.

Most believed the move could cost Thailand a small fortune.

Meanwhile, plans are under way to simplify the process for foreign teachers to work here as the current system requires 13 separate steps, which take many months to complete.

Heads of international schools have been meeting with the Immigration Department to try to simplify the process.

Thailand recently simplified the process for foreigners who want to become permanent residents. The amount of paperwork required has been slashed and the time involved reportedly cut from more than a year to about four months.

Last year Thailand tightened its immigration rules for South Asian tourists, who were allowed to apply for visas on arrival that permitted them to stay for 30 days. Many of them took advantage by travelling to neighbouring countries and returning to get a new visa on arrival at the airport.

Under the new rules, they are allowed to obtain a visa on arrival only twice from neighbouring countries. They are then required to return to their country of origin to obtain an entry visa to Thailand.

Jim Pollard

The Nation 2006-09-16




I'm giving serious consideration to leaving.

It isn't just the new visa restrictions;

it's that feeling that we aren't

welcome here anymore.



I can take a hint.   

[hero]

China-Taiwan-Korea-Vietnam are looking pretty good right now.

Am I right in thinking that it has long been difficult (perhaps impossible) to work in any of these countries without a visa.  Most people I know who worked in any of these countries had WPs and paid tax.  As Thailand is starting to make the same demands of its teachers now, does it suddenly becomes the worst place to work in the world?

I understand that the new legislation (or at least new interpretation of existing legislation) makes things more difficult for some in the short-term.  In the long run I believe their will be a new equilibrium not too far away from where we are at now.  Perhaps more teachers paying tax will lead us to be taken more seriously as important members of this society - or perhaps not!

As far as I'm concerned though, I don't see any need to start running for the lifeboats just yet - after all, for me and others with nice jobs and proper documentation, nothing has changed!

I genuinely have sympathy for people who had planned to spend the last 20 or 30 years of their life on 30-day tourist stamps working illegally, I genuinely do - but maybe it was time overdue to start thinking of a more permanent solution in any case.  I sympathise even more with teachers who work for institutions out there who don't provide WPs for whatever reason - my advice to these people is to find a better employer and out the cowboys!

[NukeThemSlowly]

I'm worried about some of my friends who get actual tourist visas.  If they have to go all the way back home now to get new ones, it may mean they leave here- even though most of them are not working and bring money into Thailand (early retirees).

[Mods-Rockers]

My take on it is that tourist visas (60 day +30 +15) are unaffected tight now.

[paul]

Apparantly they are only issuing single entry tourist visas in Penang from now on and you will have to return to your own country to get a multiple entry.

[ajarnnormal]

I am in agreement with Uncle Che. I just spent the weekend in Kanchanaburi and there seems to be a panic on with the teachers there. Although none of the schools have been raided yet they think it will happen. There are a lot of them doing the visa runs and have been doing for ages. I think now it is going to be cut and dry, you are legal or you are not. If your not then I am sure you will have to find another alternative with regards work. I'm sure that the penalty for working without WP will be high once the show really gets on the road. I understand that there will be many good teachers leaving Thailand. I do not see those that are legal and paying tax having anything to worry about. I honestly think that we will get more respect. Well let us hope so.
 

[Pibthong]

   Who knows what the following may mean? I couldn't say. Should we be alarmed or should we just shrug our shoulders?

   Today an Aussie I know who'd been assisting the past 4 months in Phuket in teaching diving on a tourist visa was denied a Non-Immi-B by the Thai Embassy in Phenom Penh; he also was denied another tourist visa. He'll consult with his colleagues but presently it looks like he's out of Thailand for good.

   A Brit teacher whose Non-Immi-B expired between jobs went to Penang, Malaysia with new documentation from his new school but was given a tourist visa by Thai Immigration there. He says Thai Immi/Penang told him one document was missing from his submission. He's presently in Phenom Penh Cambodia where his application for a new Non-Immi-B visa is pending at the Thai Embassy there.

   What? 

[hero]

Why not take the tourist visa or even 30-day stamp to immigration and get a non-imm B there?  I believe that's what they are expecting people to do.  They made it much tougher for teachers to get non-imm B visas in Penang last year.  With a tourist visa and the required paperwork a non-imm B visa can be obtained at immigration.

I don't think Pnomh Penh have ever been friendly when it comes to handing out visas - "not our job!" was what they bluntly told a friend of mine.  Hardly surprising that they would turn away someone who they may quite reasonably have thought was working illegally!

But you're right - there are probably no easy visa excursions on offer at the moment!

[ajarnnormal]

   
   

   A Brit teacher whose Non-Immi-B expired between jobs went to Penang, Malaysia with new documentation from his new school but was given a tourist visa by Thai Immigration there. He says Thai Immi/Penang told him one document was missing from his submission. He's presently in Phenom Penh Cambodia where his application for a new Non-Immi-B visa is pending at the Thai Embassy there.

   What? 

That is nothing new. If the school did not give him the correct paperwork they will knock you back. It is not their responsibility to sort out the problem at the other end. It is the school who should make sure everything is correct. I am sure that even if he goes to Phenom Penh without the correct paperwork they will knock him back there. All this by the way is assuming he did not have the correct paperwork or was it a blatant knock back for no reason

[hero]

While working at a school last year, this happened to several teachers (not me!) that got knocked back at both Vientiane and Penang due to not having the correct paperwork.  Once equipped with the correct docs, they were all OK in the end!

[ajarnnormal]

Yes you are right. With the teacher in question who was knocked back in Penang. He was between jobs. there must have been a gap because as you rightly said you can go to MoI and get one with the correct paperwork. Seems crazy to go halfway round Asia when all that was missing was one piece of paperwork.

[Pibthong]

   Yeah, I'd' recently heard that the Thai Embassy/Phenom Penh arbitrarily knocks back 1 in 4 Non-Immi-B applications. Anyone heard anything like or similar? I''d also heard recently that the Thai Embassy in Hanoi is generous with Non-Immi-B visas. 
   
   The Aussie I'd mentioned has to go as he was here under the kind of usual "ünusual" arrangements that Immi seems most to be talking of targeting.

   I'll find out from the Brit friend later this week (in Phenom Penh). The Brit couldn't go to Thai Immi in Bangkok because his WP had expired and his school wouldn't get him a new one. So he said he left his school, returned the expired WP to Min of Labor which cancelled out the existing Non-Immi-B visa which, in turn, meant overstay payment and then out of Thailand for the new Non-Immi-B for the new school. That's always been my understanding of the circumstance the Brit friend is in. I don't know as I still have my Non-Immi-B issued in 1998 by the Royal Thai Embassy in Korea which simply always has been extended each year for one year by Thai Immi.

   I think we might see from the two instances--the Aussie and the Brit--whether Thai Immi is able to sort the proverbial wheat from the chaff in all of this new visa madness. That is, the Aussie in Thailand under dubious credentials is sent out and the Brit under legit credentials (but nonetheless hassled) gets his Non-Immi-B okay (especially significant if the Thai Embassy/Phenom Penh issues it).

   Wouldn't you think? 

[Pibthong]

   To complete the story, the Brit did get his Non-Immi-B in Pnom Penh. He happily emailed me late this afternoon. Looks likeThai Immi might be sorting the wheat from the chaff...

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

^ Some good news for a change.


While we're on a roll and thinking positive ...


Is it possible that the coup will negate the pending immi crackdown?

As far as I know, nobody has mentioned this possiblity yet.


At the moment, we know that they've disolved the government and courts,

but I have no idea where the Bureau of Immigration fits into this equation.


Anyone care to venture an educated guess?  A stab in the dark?