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Author Topic: Raids on schools  (Read 3555 times)

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Offline ajarnnormal

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Raids on schools
« on: September 07, 2006, 10:12:10 am »
Just to let you know and it is a bit vague at this moment. Several schools have been raid this week by immigration police. the ones I know so far are Wells Phrakanong, B.C.C Assumption Sathorn. Someone I know was arrested and told to pay 30,000 BHT and go to court. They were kept in jail overnight. soon as I find out more I will keep you posted.

Offline blackmail

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2006, 10:42:49 am »
Several schools have been raid this week by immigration police. the ones I know so far are Wells Phrakanong, B.C.C Assumption Sathorn. Someone I know was arrested and told to pay 30,000 BHT and go to court. They were kept in jail overnight.

Remember the spokesperson from BCC, who said everyone was "legal."  My ass. :o

NamTok

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2006, 11:24:28 am »
   I strongly disagree with the statement made in an earlier post at another thread that the only farang that need to "head for the hills" are those who have good reason to do so. While a guilty of whatever farang may well need to head for the hills, how many farang who haven't any reason to do so will be caught up in sweeps solely because of the dereliction of the owners of schools or because of the hostility of the owners?

   I think now of the Soviet-Era piece of macabre humor: Three Communist Party members are in a gulag. One asked the other why he's there. The guy says, "I supported comrade Radik." He asks the questioner why he's in prison. "I opposed comrade Radik." Both ask the third guy why he's behind bars. "I'm comrade Radik!"

   Hello, comrades!

   How many school owners and/or administrators are going to be hauled into police stations and into court on charges of failing to secure proper documentation of farang teachers, failing to pay properly or in a timely manner or of releasing withheld pay, or of allowing physical abuse of students by Thai teachers etc? We well know the answers to these kind of questions.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2006, 12:44:24 pm by NamTok »

Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2006, 12:31:47 pm »
Sorry that the last notice was in such a hurry. I am now more aware of what went on. the schools were raided at about 10.30 yesterday and 10 were taken into custody. They were told they had to pay 30,000. they then went to court today. As yet I do not know what went on. the director of my school has been informed that there are going to be more. they are looking for illegal workers without workpermits. One of the teachers is well qualified and the school delayed getting the documents. Think we should be ready for the knock on now.

Offline Speaksoftly

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2006, 12:43:58 pm »
Here's another concern:  what if you do have a work permit for your main job, but you do some extra work for company-type schools or language schools or tutoring agencies on the side?  If these places are raided, you're still illegal if you don't have the extra job listed on your work permit.  Anyone have a feel for what the risk is?

NamTok

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2006, 01:01:28 pm »
Speaksoftly,
   An excellent question. I myself haven't ever been in that situation. Still, to my knowledge, in the past there's been very little or no risk. But we need to hear from others, I am sure.

   Presently, however, I'd bet the risk to farangs will increase subsantially and significantly, BUT NOT AT ALL TO THE EMPLOYERS. Very importantly, I think, is the question as to whether anyone has any experience or suggestions as to how to take the EMPLOYERS to task in this respect?

   Related, is there anything in the news about the "raids?" Has anyone checked on that? I'm going to check that out now as I think we all should..

Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2006, 02:22:15 pm »
I have rang several people to give them the warning and some of them have already heard from elsewhere. My main point at the start of this thread was to warn fellow teachers as at the time I did not have all the facts. I assure you that they have taken place be it in the news or not. My friend rang me from the police station trying to get advice on what to do about paying the 30,000 bht.

NamTok

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2006, 02:48:00 pm »
ajarnnormal,
   I fully accept your reports and seek more info from whatever sources. Please post what you get when you get it.

   Meantime, my question to everyone is how can we bring the violator EMPLOYERS into this?   

Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2006, 03:15:04 pm »
Yes I agree. The crazy thing was with my friend was that she is married to a Thai and has two children. She has been legal before but went to work for Wells. The 10 teachers all paid 30,000 bht or they were going to the detention centre. I do not see any comeback for the employer with this. It is a catch 22 situation for us. We go to work at a school and in good faith we accept that they are going to help with work permit etc. Then we crack on into the term and wait for the red lights to produce documents and all things pertaining to the legal process. Time goes on and the schools start giving excuses as to why things are taking so long. Time passes and nothing happens, then bosh the police arrive and the school washes it's hands of you. In my friends case she was even told to remove her I.D by the school and hide. The school new they were coming it seems or the police called at reception first I don't know the full story yet but will keep you posted on any developments. It just can not see where we have a leg to stand on. Also what was the 30,000 bht for other than going into someones pocket. That is 300,000 bht for one raid

NamTok

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2006, 03:47:20 pm »
   Yes, we've seen this in posts at this board about so many schools, EMPLOYERS.

   In the present environment of a "crackdown" as it were, farang teachers are again the targets for any one or more of a variety of reasons. As with your married to a Thai lady friend who WAS legal, we must ask why she isn't presently legal? I think we can believe that she herself has not been withholding documents the school needs to make her and others at the school "legal." If, in this instance, ten teachers aren't legal, there isn't any reason for us to believe that ten teachers are illegal other than because of the dereliction of the school--especially if the teachers began teaching at the school from the usual beginning of the School Year, that is, May.

   Your first reports in posts here today, which tho at this point are sketchy but I'm sure are fundamentally reliable, indicate that the school remains untouched by the authorities whilst the teachers are the ones being hammered. We know it's the responsibility of the employer to make all farang and foreign teachers legal. So, why aren't the employers at the police station right now, being called to account by the authorities? Why aren't the EMPLOYERS at the police station handing over the cash (much of which, yes, the police will pocket)?

   We need to pursue this central point, no?!?  

Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2006, 08:30:06 am »
Yes I agree 100%. Does anyone else know anything about these raids? I would be interested to hear more from anybody. On the other point. My friend gave the school all the required paperwork on day one. It was theschool that held up the process. It was a new job and as you know when you start a new job all the legal stuff you had before goes out the window and you start again.

Offline wangsuda

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2006, 10:20:08 am »
One thing I have noticed is that all these "raids" are happening at private schools. I have yet to hear a mention of a government school being raided. It seems to me that the private sector is being singled out.

Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2006, 11:11:00 am »
Have a bit more info. the 10 that went to court were charged with working without a permit. they all paid the police 30,000 and went to court the following day. They were ordered to pay 2000 bht fine and bound over to keep the peace for 1 year. Sort of suspended sentence. the school has told the workers that they will be made legal within 3 months. They will be left alone because they coughed up 30,000. What a farce! I do not think the government schools will be raided it is a case of one corrupt instituition going to another. >:D

Offline Jack Frost

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2006, 01:38:47 pm »
Our school is a government school and the police are visiting Tuesday. The school has all our passports. Memo from the school "The police will be checking all foriegn teachers next Tuesday. Any teacher absent that day or refusing to hand in their passport is required to register at a police station. The police may require an interview. All schools in Bangkok are going through this procedure there is no need to be alarmed"

Offline monkey woods

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2006, 05:42:59 pm »
I worked at St Johns College in 1991/92 before it was a University. The school was visited by 'Inspectors' who, the week before they were coming, gave the school a tip-off. The school then gave us the tip-off, and advised us not to come in for a couple of days. Everything went splendidly. 

Offline bomha

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2006, 07:49:43 pm »
Jack Frost,

You say the school has our your passports.  Do you mean copies, or the entire passports?  Do they always keep them?  Do you let them have all the copies of your work permit as well?  And your wallets?

Offline chuck_S

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2006, 10:36:15 pm »
Well, as far as raiding schools here in Thailand you should put the names of them up.  I am sure that the moderators on this board will allow this to happen to a degree. 
If it does happen then someone who is relatable and credable on here can check with other who work near there or know someone who does.

To say, that "****** school got raided" is like going into Siam Paragon and yelling fire while the movie is playing.

Chuck_S

Offline monkey woods

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2006, 10:40:00 pm »
Do you let them have all the copies of your work permit as well?


I was given conflicting information on this. First, I was told the company I worked for would keep it at the office but, after having worked for the company some time and having spoken with some of the other teachers, I realised that most people kept hold of their Work Permits themselves. When the time came to renew everything, I kept the WP and TL at my home. The office staff eventually (after nearly three months) asked me where my WP and TL were: I told them that I would take care of them until the next time renewal was due. No more was said.



  

Offline wrangler

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2006, 08:36:33 am »
I work at a government school in Phu Khieo. I am employed by Media Kids. I started work there 6 weeks ago when the other teachers took off for greener pastures. I don't have a work permit and was never told one would be coming. There are 3 other foreign teachers there that work for the same agency, none of which have a permit. Now, I know how long it takes to get a permit, so I never asked them for one. I was concerned about it until Thurdays this week, when the head of the department came around and asked all four of us for our full name and what our qualifications were. I mean, she wanted to know what school we graduated from and what our major was.
The 3 other teachers gave the information without questioning why. When I told them that they should have had this info from Media Kids on day one they had no responce. When I balked at giving up the info without knowing why, they just called the company and got the info.
Only 5 teaching days left in my contract..........should I worry????? If I have to pay some bastard 30,000 baht, then I have worked for free for 6 or 7 weeks!!!!! 
whatta gonna do?   {..


Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2006, 10:01:50 am »
Thr thread that said "Don't worry" that is OK if you have a TL and WP but I think you should be a bit worried if you havn't dont you? I am not so sure that all this is just routine either.

Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2006, 10:10:48 am »
I think it would be a good idea that if you know your school is going to be raided you ley others know. At least we can get some idea of what going on and what these raids are all about. I do not think for a second that they are just going to go round raidind schools without some form of money changing hands for some reason.

Offline monkey woods

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2006, 03:33:40 pm »
I think it would be a good idea that if you know your school is going to be raided you ley others know.


Like I said, my case was fifteen years ago. The system of "warning teachers about an impending immigration visit" seemed strange to me then, but I was new to the country. Seems almost normal now, so, unless the authorities are getting really serious about their business, I reckon it's just a short-term thing. That's not much help to the unlucky few who are going to be stung, but I don't think everyone should go running to the airport just yet.

Offline brian_q

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2006, 07:17:47 am »
Chuck S has a very valid point... print the names of the schools. After all, if the school was raided and people arrested, it is a matter of public record and therefore, printing the names of schools should be done.

There is so much "information" here that seems to skate so close to rumor that one wonders what is true and what might not be. This makes the value of the information posted on this site highly questionable. Perhpaps a little more emphasis on factual data and a little less on emotional rants might be in order.

Brian Q

Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2006, 08:14:08 am »
Mr Q. Trying to warn others of impending raids is hardly ranting and panic. I have no fear of a raid on my school because I have the documents required, there are those out there that have not. I was told at the weekend that the raids on private schools will not be with a warning. The source was reliable. To add to your other point about what is true. Well the thread I wrote about a friend being arrested is perfectly true. That is enough to make me think that these raids are not routine. Back to the good point by Namtok. What if anything can us as teachers do about the slow process that some schools take in getting us legal.

Offline Maipenlai

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2006, 12:04:34 pm »
The "raids" are not limited to private schools.

Government schools are bering visited as well but I am told first hand that this is "no problem" as we "have an understanding with the police"

TIT

And before assumptions are made, I have a WP & TL

Offline monkey woods

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2006, 01:45:18 pm »

Government schools are bering visited as well but I am told first hand that this is "no problem" as we "have an understanding with the police"

TIT



As I said in Reply #21...

Good to know some things never change   :D.

Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2006, 02:43:48 pm »
Was not sure where to put this so move it if need be. It is on the Thaivisapro website that the immigration laws are to change from 1st October. This move affects 41 countries. Currenetly you can extend your visa for 30days by the normal visa runs. Now because of the growing number of foreigners from the 41 counties working illegally in Thailand. From October 1st tourists from the 'designated counties can still enter Thailand for 30 days but their entry stamp will only be renewable twice. so that is a stay for at the most 90 days. tourists who stay for 90 days must leave the kingdom for 90 days before they can re-enter Thailand. This it is said is aimmed at the illegal workers in seaside resorts but if you believe that then you are mistaken. They just don't want to say that they are after the teachers in public.This is from the head of MOI.

admin

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2006, 07:32:41 pm »
I have followed the threads over on Thai Visa and Ajarn.com and I think there is a lot of exagerations. I read the original Bangkok Post article and it isn't talking about the 30 day entries, instead it is talking about those entering on 15 day visa on arrivals. Those are used for countries that normally have a visa required like China and India. It doesn't concern teachers from most countries like the Philippines, the US, Canada, UK, etc. Until I hear something different from a reliable news source, talk of this change is not on topic.


Offline TEFLAsiaMan

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2006, 04:47:52 pm »
Seems that the story has been fed all over the web and no mention of the "15 day" rule.  The following is the press release posted in Forbes.com:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2006/09/10/afx3005316.html
Couldn't find the Bangkok Post article but here is a repeat of the article in the People's Daily:
http://english1.peopledaily.com.cn/200609/10/eng20060910_301361.html

Uncle Che

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2006, 08:34:11 pm »
Yeah and I am going to rescind the post my admin, wanna talk about this, go ahead. I have heard plenty of conflicting reports. There is a good write-up on the issue over on the TEFL News Network. Here is the link:
http://www.teflnews.net/30/a-tale-of-two-stories/

Offline ajarnnormal

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2006, 12:18:01 pm »
OK. Back to the raids. I understand Siam Computer and Language was raided yesterday. Does anyone know if that was true. I think so. One teacher was caught at another branch and he told the police that Siam said all was taken care of so they went to see the Central office at Victory. What went on from then I am waiting to hear. The information came from someone who knows the Canadian teacher that was arrested.

Offline ddee2k

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2006, 09:00:17 pm »
Several schools have been raid this week by immigration police. the ones I know so far are ...... B.C.C ..........

My friend was looking for a new job after getting shafted by his old school and was offered a job at a certain school as they suddenly had a few vacancies.

If they are arresting people whose WP is in the pipeline as well as those who have no intention of getting one then schools will not be able to function properly.  Unless the whole system is sorted out and streamlined then come the start of each term will see only a minority ( maybe 20-30% ) of teachers fully legal. Who in the government will take the brave step and say that the WP should be given to an individual not tied to a particular school?

The quickest I have had a WP & TL has been 2 months and the longest 6 - all with the same documentation.  The only difference has been it was processed with different schools. 

You can bet Mr & Mrs Somchai will not be pleased that their little one doesnt have a teacher for the first few months of term.

Offline Kent F. Kruhoeffer

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2006, 10:43:14 am »
Here's the latest news from The Nation.

Credit to Ajarn Miguk for the link:





Big impact expected from tougher visa-free entry rules

BANGKOK: -- The days of foreign visitors doing endless "border runs" in order to live - and often work - in Thailand are over, the Immigration Police announced yesterday.

The Kingdom will tighten its immigration rules for tourists who exploit visa-free regulations, starting from the end of the month.

The move will affect tens of thousands of visitors from 41 countries who have been allowed to stay in Thailand for up to 30 days without a visa - often for many months or years.

The 41 visa-exempt countries include Australia, the United Kingdom, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the United States.

Tourists have been able to extend their stay by travelling to neighbouring countries - Cambodia, Malaysia, Laos and Burma - and returning with a further 30-day entry stamp.

But new rules have been issued because an increasing number of tourists have stayed for extended periods - without paying proper amounts of tax. This has also helped them avoid close scrutiny by authorities here and in their homeland.

"We are trying to make it more difficult for bad people to get in," Immigration Police chief Lt General Suwat Thamrongsrisakul said at a press conference yesterday.

"I don't think it's going to hurt good people because they can apply for a tourist visa [in their homeland]," he said.

The move is expected to have a big impact on the foreign community and some sectors such as teaching and diving, plus places where there are many bars run by foreigners, such as Pattaya and Chiang Mai.

From October 1, tourists from the 41 visa-exempt countries may still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but they will only be able to extend their stay here two times - that is, for a maximum of 90 days.

And tourists who stay for 90 days must leave the Kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand.

Suwat denied the crackdown was related to the arrest in Bangkok last month of John Mark Karr, the American teacher who was thought to have been involved in the high-profile JonBenet Ramsey murder case. He said there were many reasons that extended back for a long period.

Suwat conceded the move may cause some problems, but said "maybe we have to do something to make it better [later]".

However, if foreigners wanted to work here they should get a work visa, he said.

A source added: "Under the current rules, people from these countries can stay in Thailand for as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year. Many work illegally in Thailand."

Instead of sightseeing, these tourists have taken advantage of the visa exemption by getting married to Thai women "for reasons other than love", and have conducted business here. Many of them have not paid tax.

The immigration move is a hot topic among foreign residents, and comes at a time when many are fearful about possible changes in regard to firms with local nominees.

Hundreds of comments were logged on local Web boards within hours of the Immigration Department press conference. Some said foreigners should abandon Thailand for neighbouring countries, while others predicted it might force school bosses to pay foreign teachers a proper wage or cause a boom in men wanting to marry Thai women.

Most believed the move could cost Thailand a small fortune.

Meanwhile, plans are under way to simplify the process for foreign teachers to work here as the current system requires 13 separate steps, which take many months to complete.

Heads of international schools have been meeting with the Immigration Department to try to simplify the process.

Thailand recently simplified the process for foreigners who want to become permanent residents. The amount of paperwork required has been slashed and the time involved reportedly cut from more than a year to about four months.

Last year Thailand tightened its immigration rules for South Asian tourists, who were allowed to apply for visas on arrival that permitted them to stay for 30 days. Many of them took advantage by travelling to neighbouring countries and returning to get a new visa on arrival at the airport.

Under the new rules, they are allowed to obtain a visa on arrival only twice from neighbouring countries. They are then required to return to their country of origin to obtain an entry visa to Thailand.

Jim Pollard

The Nation 2006-09-16




Mods-Rockers

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2006, 01:46:58 pm »
Who in the government will take the brave step and say that the WP should be given to an individual not tied to a particular school?
The quickest I have had a WP & TL has been 2 months and the longest 6 - all with the same documentation.  The only difference has been it was processed with different schools. 

It’s not the WP that’s normally the problem but the TL, My present position is in a Uni and as such requires no TL as technically all the students are over 18. It literally took just 7 days from signing the contract to holding the WP in my hands. Yet most schools have problems getting the TL from the MOE, Sometimes its seems a very regressive step getting rid of the old TL for life or longer than 1 year at least.

Pibthong

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Re: Raids on schools
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2006, 08:30:11 pm »
   What the latest scoop on the "raids?" Have the "visits" to the schools by the authorities continued since the coup? Have the visits continued but reduced in frequency or time spent at a school, or in respect to the thoroughness of the investigaton progess at a given school? Are the visits suspended or down to a trickle? Or have visits intensified or remained at the same as the pre-coup regularity and frequency?

   Any word or knowledge of this, firsthand or hearsay??

 

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