Topic: Niva International School - good, bad or indifferent

[NamTok]

snottgoblin et al,

   Thanks for a well-written and well-reasoned verification to us of the slam-bang posting by Ladyteacher. Ladyteacher perhaps might be as rabid against Niva as Niva is in their own ways and actions, but Ladyteacher makes her point vividly, if stridently.

   What struck me first and foremost in this controversy is the immediate reaction of Niva to sue (apparently everyone and anyone). Niva did act to seek a remedy by using the law, which in principle is generally a good thing.

   However, the laws of libel and slander etc in Thailand are heavily weighted in favor of the plaintiff (Niva). In fact, the Acting (Caretaker) Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra just the other day filed a libel etc civil suit against a prominent academic on the faculty of a university in Bangkok. So, frankly, the immediate move by Niva to sue is hardly commendable, nor does it merit respect or praise.

   As I stated in an earlier posting, anyone who seeks to sue TeflWatch or any site like it always is the bad guy. Niva is seeking the information from TeflWatch to sue TeflWatch et al on the basis of one posting. That alone provides reason enough to consider Niva to be an intemperate and imperious operation. Which is why I voted to express route Niva to the TeflWatch Hall of Shame.

   Equally as important is to support TeflWatch in such a situation. In supporting TeflWatch we each and all support ourselves. This "First Threat" is a precedent that all schools and all farang teachers are watching closely. So it indeed is necessary for TeflWatch to make public the threat and actions by Niva.

   Further, it sounds from your posting that there are quite a few farang former Niva teachers out there who could choose to come forward if they wished.

[Due Diligence]

When I first arrived in Thailand I saw a NIVA advert and was tempted as all a newbee might be.  However a Thai friend informed me it wasn't good school. She didn;t give more details but well if a Thai says it sucks then it must suck. They say its safe to drink Bangkok water. So why don't Thais drink it? They must know something..................

[Parent]

As a parent of children who study at Niva International School I feel compelled to write.
My first reaction will be towards ‘Lady teacher’, she implies that all teachers and the administrator are religious freaks, something that is echoed later in this threat. I have spoken to several of the teachers of Niva, and never have they tried to push the conversation towards religion, something that I would expect of a religious freak.

It was also said in this threat that (many ) teachers did not have qualifications. I have not encountered this.
According to some contributors of this thread, a Filipino mafia controls the school. It is true that there are some Filipino teachers, but there are also teachers from the USA, England, France, The Netherlands and some other countries. To me it sounds, and looks like a TRUE International school, most like other schools that call themselves international, but re actually American schools.

Many of the teachers, if not all, are very approachable. Take the IT teacher for instance. He teaches in a fun way according to my children, and they are very happy with him, even though he is not a native English speaker. He helps all students with all problems they have, not only IT problems. He teaches the students English, values, something that is very important, and that ‘Ladyteacher’ does not seem to have much of, looking at her vocabulary, and is well liked by staff and students alike.

The office staff is also very friendly, and will go out of their way to help you. I have absolute no idea why ‘Ladyteacher’  hat wrote she wrote. I can only conclude that is a mentally sick person who does not know manners, and shows what she really is. I am very happy that she is no longer at Niva and cannot poison my children with here disturbing attitude. I also hope for her sake she seeks professional help soon.

[Mods-Rockers]

I hazard a guess as to the IP address this post came from.
I assume Parent that you are a qualified medical practicioner, seeing as how you can make a diagnosis as above, and yet if that were true you would also be a hypocrite for breaking the oath.
Your manners are also exemplary when you castigate the mental health of someone while saying they have no manners.
TransPARENT is a word that comes to mind here.

[samvimes]

Too many non native like expressions with some Americanisms and a few grammar errors, I'd warrant this post came from a Filipino member of staff. In any case it's not articulate enough for someone who can afford to send their child to a real international school and it's not written by a native speaker.

[Mods-Rockers]

tend to agree, as I said transPARENT.

[admin]

My only comment is that it is quite funny that the teacher who is held up as a great example, one of the IT teachers, is one of the teachers who threatened the site and any who posts against Niva with a lawsuit.

Anyways, IT teachers know better than to use easily tracked IP address so we will never know who parent really is.

News I can report on this thread, Niva has escaped from a blacklisting as the attack came only from two IT teachers who say they were acting on their own behalf and not at the suggestion of the school administration. So unless something major comes along in the next 24 to 36 hours, I am going to cut some posts out of here into the Sour Gripes and lock up the thread for a few days while things calm down. Not now, in 24 to 36 hours. For now the thread is still open.

[Ronaldo]

I believe it is fair to say IMO there seems to be an internal fight going on at NIVA, which has spilt over on to the board, which naturally we all look forward to reading and commenting on, however. NIVA International School has not done itself any favours by suggesting that it is going to sue either individual members or the board, which is in itself very doubtful but it does allow us the opportunity to point out the apparent inadequacy of a draconian law roundly condemned by lawmakers worldwide.

Moreover, it highlights the tendency to use Thai law in a spurious fashion as illustrated by the criminal defamation law that has in recent years been condemned globally as offensive to basic rights of free expression and publication. Many countries have recognised that criminal defamation is obsolete, and have removed it from the statute books. Unfortunately, Thailand is not among them.

Here, a person convicted under section 328 of the Penal Code may be subject to a fine of 200,000 Thai baht and two years’ imprisonment. This is an extremely backward provision entirely out of place in a modern and democratic society, and out of step with developments in international law. It is also contrary to the both the letter and spirit of the 1997 Constitution, which guarantees unrestricted freedom of expression. 

The reasons that criminal defamation has been rendered obsolete are many. They have been articulated in great detail through documents issued over some years by the UN Human Rights Committee—which oversees the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, to which Thailand is a party—the Special Rapporteur on freedom of opinion and expression, and prominent rights groups such as Article XIX. Among the principle reasons, first, criminal defamation cases stifle free speech by intimidating others from speaking openly and directly about matters of public interest. Secondly, they improperly shift the burden of proof onto a criminal defendant. Thirdly, criminal defamation is unnecessary when civil defamation exists as an alternative.

As for civil defamation, there are also many international standards that should be considered by the courts in these cases. Among these, first, the purpose of a defamation suit should be limited to protecting a person or legal entity from public ridicule or hatred; not, by contrast, to stifle legitimate criticism of public bodies, corporations or persons, particularly where this is done in the public interest.

Secondly, a civil defamation suit should be granted only in cases where the offending statement is demonstrably false, with the burden of proof resting with the complainant. Thirdly, any remedy granted in a civil defamation suit should be with the purpose of redressing the harm caused to the complainant, not punishing the person or persons responsible for the defamation. Where the remedy granted involves payment of compensation, the amount must be proportionate to the harm done, and should take into account other factors, such as the overall negative effect on free speech that may be felt as a consequence.

[Parent]

Mods-Rockers and Samvimes both stopped talking about the issue, and attacked me. That is why I write now back in non-perfect English.

Rocker, your grammar may be perfect, today, but it shows that you do not know much about English, a language that constantly changes, but your comprehension still lacks a little. As far as I remember I never said that 'Ladyteacher' was my patient, so I cannot break my oath. However, you are observant enough to see that I am a medical practicioner, and you should know that they have their own kind of langauge, which might differ a little from your English.

Sam, I make enough to send my children to an true international school, and I might even learn some English form them. What you said, might be understood that only an elite group of people is allowed to send their children to a true international school, and they must speak and write your English.

I only hope that my children will not have to study with the likes of you two. You only try to stir the emotion pot, and make people unhappy. You do not look at facts, instead hear a rumor, and immediatly look at the negative side to try to make it worse.

Administrator, you claim that your site is so in favor of 'Free Speech', why then do you say you will dumb some, not all, but some of the postings? Sounds rather 'Big Brother' to me. There goes your free speech. Either stop this provocative non-grounded speculation, or let all stand.

I will not react to any postings that this mail may start. The reason for that is that I know that all of you are right, 

But I am happy. I hope you might find happiness sometime in this life.

[monkey woods]

I hope you might find happiness sometime in this life.

Aww...that's nice of you.   

[Mods-Rockers]

Its ironic that transparent made his/her posting and admits to being a medic and also admits to making public a diagnosis of lady teacher imediately after a rarther long posting on the defamation laws as they pertain to Thailand. I hope you are reading this ladyteacher and it has given you food for thought. Remember even if its now proved that you are as nutty as a fruitcake you can still sue his or her ass all over bangkok and effectively retire.

Oh yes I do find so much happiness in life.

[NamTok]

Ronaldo,

   It's a pleasure to read your brief, ie, your legal analysis of freedom of speech. You point out with great effectiveness a major way by which the Thai elites protect themseves and preserve their elite positions and status in Thai society (the same is true of many other societies). Owners of schools in Thailand seem incresingly interested in considering this approach, ie, civil defamation suits, so we have to get on their case immediately, as you well did.

   I would add, if I might, that Thailand needs to adopt the principle of law that the truth is a valid defense. That is, if what you say is true, then you are not guilty of any violation of law, whether civil or criminal. Pesently Thai law only looks at harm. If harm is done, then the teller of truth is guilty of harming the one who is actually guilty. This principle of law is among the many areas of jurisprudence in which Thailand is backward (upside-down and inside-out too).

   Admin,
                      Glad to learn that Niva is not about to sue, that the threat was not made by the school but, rather, by two teachers. Good news indeed, to include for Niva. (As with a good cold one, we all together got to the bottom of this in rather short order, eh?) 

[hippo]

Sorry but I don't think parent is any type of medical person, he says "However, you are observant enough to see that I am a medical practicioner, and you should know that they have their own kind of langauge, which might differ a little from your English." If he were in the profession, surely he would say "we" and "our". There are terms and expressions used in all professions, it is called jargon and you can usually tell a person's profession or interest/hobby by it. It is like a secret handshake. If someone says to me that they have an 11-19 corncob with a 52/42 then I know what they are interested and I would probably counter that with "I can't push anything that high.
That's beside the point. How many doctors will publicise the fact that they are doctors? How many doctors send their children to NIVA? Looking at the style of the letter suggest that the author is a Filipino especially the ending which reminds me of the "More power to you" school.

[Ronaldo]

Admin,

Apologies for the rather long post, but I do believe it to be valuable to at least post the state-of-play regarding this issue in Thailand.

NamTok,

Thanks for the kind comments.

What you added goes to heart of the matter as it now pertains in Thailand and recent political event bear witness to this misdirected process.

However, coming back to the initial comments by Ladyteacher, it still strikes me as an internal dispute writ-large on the 'board' and will surely die a death of a thousand cuts and be over in a jiffy.

[Thai Me Up]

Where is Ladyteacher?  Now that various posters have weighed in, both to support her and to damn her, I'd like to hear a response by the OP.  Ladyteacher can corroborate or add further comment, but at this point, the thread really needs some new info from her to make this discussion productive (or at the very least, more amusing).  C'mon Ladyteacher, speak!