Topic: Non-native English speakers teaching, a problem or not?

[Harry]

Would it be fair to say that a majority of schools employ non-native English speaking teachers in their regular English or (EEP) Extended English programmes? EEP - Where they teach a variety of subjects (Maths, Science, Computers etc.) to the students in English.

I taught at a school recently where there was a Korean who spoke American English teaching English, a Lithuanian who spoke quite poor English teaching Computers, a Thai who spoke American English teaching Science (last year he was teaching English), & an Indian who spoke English... learnt apparently at International schools in the LoS teaching Science (last year she taught english & computers). This was out of a compliment of approx. 8 foreign teachers.

Personally I care not a jot that non-native English speaking teachers are being employed by the schools, if the schools want to employ them then that's their business. But if I were a parent who'd paid a fair whack of money each term to put my kid in an EP programme, I'd feel rather cheated to say the least, wouldn't you?

Is the hiring of non-native English speaking teachers becoming more or less prevalent? What problems, if any, do you see for such a policy?

[hero]

My experiences and opinions:

Private schools hire non-native speakers (white Europeans) where they cannot get native speakers merely to satisfy the "white face" requirement of the paying parents.  Unfortunately, when there is an abundance of native-speakers around these non-native speakers can be treated very badly.  A guy I knew was even dismissed for being a non-native speaker, despite the fact that this was most clear when he was recruited

Different schools have different requirements of their teachers.  Some schools will employ better-qualified non-native speakers (generally Filipino or Indian) feeling they are better able to the job - IMO they are probably correct in this.  Other schools prefer poorly qualiified native speakers for the same jobs.  Again where private schools are concerned this often depends on the parents - some bigotted Thai parents will pay more to have a farang teach their kids than a Filipino or Indian - clearly this is a horrible prejudice!

I think it's important to distinguish between conversational EFL teachers and EP teachers here.  I would prefer to have a native speaker teaching conversational English to my kids.  In all other subjects I would want the best equipped for the job.  If they were using English language textbooks then they must be able to understand and teach the material - simple really!

I observe a lot of prejudice against non-native speakers of English from both parents (let's not forget that Thailand features pretty low on the scale of English ability, maybe there's a bit of jealousy here that particularly their Asian neighbours are better able to teach English than them) and native speaker teachers (some teachers would have the doors closed to non-native speakers, not sure why).  The combination of these effects is to have a lot of negativity towards non-native speakers who after all are working just as hard as native speakers, for the same reasons and often for less money!

A teacher is a teacher IMO.  If people don't see it that way and see it as a question of race then that says more about them than anyone else IMO.

[bangjock]

From my own experience, it really comes down to the school. At my school, there is not a problem having two or three non-native English teachers on the regular program, teaching English. They would prefer not to, but it is a question of $$$.

On the more prestigious English Program this is not an option and, as such, we have found it very difficult to find suitably qualified, native-speaker math and science teachers.

Two years ago, science was taught by a very-well qualified Filipino teacher, however, the students found her accent hard to understand. The following year, an agency supplied a much less qualified native speaker.

Despite the fact that he couldn't teach, he was still prefered as a) he was a European and b) he was a native speaker; albiet from Newcastle, but his command of bar-beer 'bamboo' English was astounding.

Personally, I have to agree with Hero, but the underlying prejudice against non-Caucasian teachers will always be lurking under the bright Thai smiles.

Incidentally, the best English speaking Thai teacher that I ever worked with had studied in India, and spoke with a bit of an Indian accent. That was never an issue though.

[Dumbo]

The only problem I have with non-natives are the ones who think they are better than native teachers by using excuses like, oh I don't go out and drink so that makes me better than all the farang teachers. Put a sock in it.

The best teacher is a well qualified teacher who puts out a great English lesson every time. I have yet to see a non-native speaker be able to do it. They put out ok lessons and be well qualified. It is tradeoff, a non-native teacher offers a cheaper price at the expense of English quality. They attempt to decrease that tradeoff by claiming to be more moral, more qualified, more everything, but in this business, and it is a business, schools are selling English education and non-native teachers have lower English abilities. Plain and simple.

[MrQ]

Interesting one.

My experience of non-native speakers this far has been very negative . Which sadly has clouded my judgement of a vast majority of them.

A local Catholic school has nearly all non-native speakers now (one alky white guy who was fired but they were so desperate they hired him back after four years) . It's like little Manila down that part of town. The school lost all of it's natives because they treated them like non-natives, removing air-fair bonuses etc because they didn't get it.

If I was a rich mummy or daddy forking out for an EP program  would expect my child to learn from a suitable native speaker.

Even our leuk-krung who spent 50 odd years in America has problems with his pronounciation.

[Harry]

Even our leuk-krung who spent 50 odd years in America has problems with his pronounciation.

Did you mean: pronunciation   

[SusanRichardson]

schools are selling English education and non-native teachers have lower English abilities. Plain and simple.

Do you agree with the statement I read or wrote, saying non-native speakers did not have the ability to actually THINK in English therfore could not realy convey what something means in English any better than a Thai teacher who spoke and read English at an average level? So, the persons conclusion was that thinking in English as well as speaking it had some value? Susan

[dorian_gray]

Race has nothing to do with being able to teach English (whether grammar or conversational). To prefer someone for a specific task just because of his race or ethnicity is prejudice.

Some people do not know they are racist and some people do and are proud of it.

There are two official languages used in the Philippines and they are used everyday especially in the capital. These are Filipino and English. It is not a question of having a native language in this country because most people grew up in a bilingual environment. Plus in the provinces, it is not uncommon to find people who are fluent in three languages (their dialect, Tagalog and English).

[hero]

To prefer someone for a specific task just because of his race or ethnicity is prejudice.

And not very nice, to boot!

[monkey woods]

Race has nothing to do with being able to teach English (whether grammar or conversational). To prefer someone for a specific task just because of his race or ethnicity is prejudice.

Some people do not know they are racist and some people do and are proud of it.

I didn't think I was racist, but I may have to have a re-think after reading your post. You see, I assumed that someone from, say, the Home Counties, might be better suited to teach conversational English to Thai children than a person from, say, Manila. I base this assumption solely on authenticity.

Am I racist?

[hero]

In the nicest possible way! 

To prefer someone for a specific task just because of his race or ethnicity is prejudice.

But to prefer someone because they are better equipped for the job is normal procedure.  This is where the argument gets muddled.  I have no problem at all with schools saying "native speakers only" in an advertisement, that's not racist!

[Mods-Rockers]

In the nicest possible way! 

To prefer someone for a specific task just because of his race or ethnicity is prejudice.

But to prefer someone because they are better equipped for the job is normal procedure.  This is where the argument gets muddled.  I have no problem at all with schools saying "native speakers only" in an advertisement, that's not racist!

I have often found it easier to understand a filipeno (sp) that it is to understand  people from the north east of England, or from swampsville GA. "native speakers only" may not be racist but it is certainly discrimatory ((sp again) sorry chaps the grey stuff is kinda fruited up right now). There is a strong case that can be put forward that all TESOL teachers should have either a TOEFL or IELT’s qualification to prove they have the requisite knowledge, I seem to remember that about 2 years ago the Japanese version of the MOE did a sample poll and found that over 70% of TEFL teachers in Japan could not score above 550 in TOEFL which is pretty damning really.

[monkey woods]

I have often found it easier to understand a filipeno (sp) that it is to understand  people from the north east of England, or from swampsville GA.

No argument there. Especially Geordies! But I wouldn't expect that anyone would hire a broad Geordie, Scouser, Scot, Welshman or Brummie unless the learners wanted to mimic one of those accents. Thais generally want to learn Standard English with as much RP as they can muster. It's not going to happen very often with any teacher, much less a Filipino (or Cornishman). 

[hero]

Of course, the primary point here is not whether non-native speakers can do the job.  I believe they often do it more effectively than native speakers, they understand the problems and have related experiences and often are superb linguists.  However, if a school sells programs to parents on the understanding that their child will be taught by a native English speaker (because that's what they want), then all the English ability in the world does not make a non-native speaker qualified for that job.

I could tell the story of the guy who tried to get me to work for 300Bt an hour, I told him about a Western-educated middle-aged married-to-a-Thai very-experienced-in-TEFL mother-of-two non-native-speaker looking-for-a-bit-of-work-to-amuse-herself (Filipina) teacher who would be perfect.  He refused as it "wasn't a good look for his school" and "he could do it himself for less money" (his English was average - for an M3 student!)

It's a question of supply and demand really I believe.

Comments?

[dorian_gray]

First of all, I did not mention any names when I said someone in this thread is racist.

Who speaks authentic English anyway? The Americans? The Aussies? Or is it only the English people? Can we say that the Americans, Kiwis, South Africans, Irish, Scottish, and Canadians are non-native English speakers?

What do you think we are implying if we say that "native speakers" are the best ones to teach this language? Are we saying that these students can never be as fluent as the native speakers?

By the way, I have had French and German students already and I am a 100% Filipino.