Author Topic: Corporal Punishment and the foreigners (Read 2661 times)

SusanRichardson · « **on:** July 01, 2006, 08:51:18 am »

As some know, hitting students with "hickory sticks" aka bamboo sticks still exist in Thailand. Have any of you seen a foreign teacher using this method of discipline or shall we call it violence? Thanks. Susan

luk ling · « **Reply #1 on:** July 01, 2006, 09:46:37 pm »

Foreign teachers? No, and as most Govt schools have a policy that foreign teachers cannot even discipline students, I doubt anyone else has.
Thai teachers? Countless times. Most schools have a discipline officer. IME they are just nasty little fuckers who enjoy bullying people. More than once I've had to grip my desk to stop myself snatching the stick and beating the shit out of them. On the other hand, there's more then once I've wanted to use their stick on an exceptionally unruly student (but wanting to and actually doing it are a long way from each other).

SusanRichardson · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2006, 11:01:54 am »

Quote from: luk ling on July 01, 2006, 09:46:37 pm

More than once I've had to grip my desk to stop myself snatching the stick and beating the shit out of them.

If it makes your day, an incident occured last year and the foreigner took the stick away from the assigned stickman and broke it half, in front of him and the students he was about to strike. The foreigner is gone but for other reasons.

I asked intially because, once again, the "non-native" aka foreigners are using sticks as a threat more than actual. I was ridiculed in the other discussion for even suggesting skin color or they were trying "harder" to fit in with the Thai staff.

cheers mate, did you see the French early this morning? Susan

kenkannif · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2006, 04:40:15 pm »

I'm pretty sure it's illegal for even Thais to do it nowadays (although they do).

I know a Westerner who accidentally (and it was) 'hit' a kid....cost him 10K!

ajarnnormal · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2006, 04:52:56 pm »

It is a definate 'no no'. Just don't do it even if your not sure.

kenkannif · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2006, 05:02:26 pm »

LoL not sure about what???

Uncle Che · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2006, 07:12:10 pm »

No problem with a stick. Yeah, I think some of the Filipinos get away with it and let me tell you what? Western teachers could get away with it if they wanted to. But directors are out after money and keeping the students happy get them more money.

These schools bring in foreign teachers and try to sell a western education to the parents but then refuse to give the teachers any tools. The best tool a teacher in a western country has in their arsenal is the ability to fail a student. The best tool a western teacher has in Thailand is the ability to smile to the student.

ajarnnormal · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2006, 10:53:07 am »

Not sure if you can belt their ear or not. Uncle Che has hit the nail on the head. Smile is what we have to do. Keep the customer satisfied. School is like one big youth club for them. they cry when they leave for the big world. I could not wait to get out of my school. After my GCE's i was ready to hit the road and no tears.

kenkannif · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2006, 11:46:49 am »

^ Def not allowed mate legally.

Then again I got slapped a few times in the UK when it was illegal.

ajarnnormal · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2006, 02:56:41 pm »

Yes but this is not the UK. If you slap them expect to get slapped back with a fine or the sack. the sooner teachers get used to the idea they are not in the UK or any other country but Thailand they will enjoy it or hate it here. If it is the latter get out.

NukeThemSlowly · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2006, 07:54:20 pm »

It seems to me that the spirit of the website, for better or worse, is kind of contrary to Ajarnnormal's "if you don't like it, then leave" mantra. The existence of a site like this is designed to put pressure on those who employ us to change in ways we view as favourable. This is a natural result of capitalism- they change us AND we change them. Those who don't like it are free to offer their unpaid services as slaves, which is the long-range plan for those who refuse to stand up for themselves.

Furthermore, I'd say corporal punishment is probably more common here than it is in the English speaking world, legal or not, therefore it is more "Thai" in nature, for what it's worth.

ajarnnormal · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2006, 07:52:50 am »

Maybe it is "Thai" but least we forget we are not "Thai". We are strangers in a strange land. We stand out like a sore thumb and are watched by the "Thai" powers that be. Is it worth giving them more bullets to fire at us. I think not.

NukeThemSlowly · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2006, 10:33:34 am »

I'm not calling for more corporal punishment from foreigners, actually (and I don't think anyone here really is, though it's sweet of you to stand up for the Thais on this non-issue).

Harry · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2006, 04:07:50 pm »

I don't believe that anything positive has ever been achieved by hitting a kid, it's simply the last resort of a cowardly bully.

I firmly believe that anyone who does strike a child, especially a so-called teacher, should be sent to the BKK Hilton for a minimum period of 12 months hard labour... at the very least.

blackmail · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2006, 08:57:06 pm »

"spanking" is different than "hitting."

Harry · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2006, 10:03:32 pm »

Quote from: blackmail on July 07, 2006, 08:57:06 pm

"spanking" is different than "hitting."

Indeed, it has sexual connotations.

blackmail · « **Reply #16 on:** July 08, 2006, 06:24:18 pm »

I had a former student, who robbed an ice cream vendor for 50us, then murdered him. I read about another case, where a 14 year-old was on his way to school and stopped at a lady's house to ask her if he could make an important phone call. The lady was 73 yo, and the kid was arrested for sexually assaulting her.

If you don't think there is a need for strict discipline--think again.

ajarnnormal · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2006, 10:12:22 am »

Quote from: NukeThemSlowly on July 07, 2006, 10:33:34 am

though it's sweet of you to stand up for the Thais on this non-issue).

May I remind you that you are working in a poor third world country. It is not a case of sticking up for the Thai's. you only twist the words round to hear what you want to hear from my thread. If you are in Australia or Zambia you have to abide by the rules of the education authority that you work for. This is the fact and it is not negotiable.

ajarnnormal · « **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2006, 10:16:22 am »

Spanking is different to hitting? What is different about it? Hit means to strike someone or something if I am not mistaken. And hear hear to the Bangkok Hilton idea.

Harry · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2006, 10:56:30 am »

Quote from: ajarnnormal on July 12, 2006, 10:16:22 am

Spanking is different to hitting? What is different about it? Hit means to strike someone or something if I am not mistaken.

People will try to argue there's a difference but there ain't, imo. The alternative to spanking isn’t to ignore misbehavior or to replace spanking with verbal attacks. Many parents/ teachers already know and use other, non-violent ways of teaching and controlling behavior. In most cases, parents/ teachers only need the patience to keep on doing what they were doing to correct misbehavior, without the spanking!

Quote from: ajarnnormal on July 12, 2006, 10:16:22 am

And hear hear to the Bangkok Hilton idea.

Tainted-Teacher · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2006, 02:15:01 pm »

Although it is "ofiicially" illegal to use corporal punishment in thai schools, this is not always the case. At St. Gabriels for example, when registering your child for enrollment you will be asked to sign a document allowing the teachers to use corporal punishment when necessary. In many cases the naughty boys are caned on a daily basis.

DW · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2006, 04:48:57 pm »

Quote from: Tainted-Teacher on July 12, 2006, 02:15:01 pm

Although it is "ofiicially" illegal to use corporal punishment in thai schools, this is not always the case. At St. Gabriels for example, when registering your child for enrollment you will be asked to sign a document allowing the teachers to use corporal punishment when necessary. In many cases the naughty boys are caned on a daily basis.

I love the quote marks! "officially" Just about sums up this country.

But, if something is illegal surely a school cant get round it but getting the parents to sign a contract. Its like saying buggery is illegal but if you sign this Mr Parent we can bugger your kids if he is naughty. ( A big jump in action but you get the idea ). Sounds like another TIT solution.

I have seen countless thai teachers slap legs, arms with hands, rulers, canes........... and only once have I heard of any comeback on the teacher. That was when another kid filmed him on a mobile phone and the video spread around the school and eventually the parents and then it got too big for the school to ignore. But for us, you can get away with pinging the boys ear or a little tap on the head but even there, if the kid complains you leave yourself open. One guy I used to work with got sacked because of something as trivial as that.

ajarnnormal · « **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2006, 08:06:45 am »

Once again remember you are not "Thai". This site is full of the things that go on in Thai schools against the "Farang". but it is up to you.

AssumeNada · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2006, 07:30:33 pm »

Check out this video on YouTube of students being whipped in Thailand. Hard to believe it, because it is happening at a Christian School, Bangkok Christian College.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e6VGGE144DQ

ajarnnormal · « **Reply #24 on:** July 19, 2006, 11:16:47 am »

Yes I watched it. Seem like they were having fun. I have heard about this school. I know the Farang's don't do it. I remember at my school we used to get the cane, strap, slipper, and anything else the teacher could find to wallop you with. I think in this video the teacher seems to be enjoying it. The point is still the same we are jere as teachers in Thailand and we work in different schools around the country under Thai eyes that watch our every move. If we start to use any form of corporal punishment our feet would not touch the ground and in my view rightly so. In answer to the thread about the ice cream vendor. I have had students who went on to break the law and even kill people. i also had student who became rock stars and went on to fame and fortune. It is not our problem if they turn bad. It is more on the parents I think.

MrTam-di-dai-di · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2006, 03:19:03 pm »

It's unlawful, it's forbidden in the BCC EIP Primary section.

The Thai program high school is another matter.................

monkey woods · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2006, 04:41:46 pm »

I knew a guy who taught at a school where the Thai staff encouraged him to "discipline" his students, which he did with gusto. He had been at the school for a while, going through the same kind of thing that many new teachers go through in a Thai classroom - noise, laughter, disinterest and so on. The Head, who believed in his ability to teach, called him in and gave him "new instructions". After that, he fared somewhat better.
I don't think he used the stick a lot, but kids knew, as they do with Thai teachers, if they stepped out of line, punishment was waiting.

Shatapon · « **Reply #27 on:** July 19, 2006, 08:37:24 pm »

I've seen this video. It was taken early THIS year, probably around February. It is the EIP upper mathayom, NOT the Thai program. At the time, these boys were mathayom 4.

Mods-Rockers · « **Reply #28 on:** July 19, 2006, 09:06:34 pm »

The worrying thing is that the students think its funny whilst the teacher is obviously getting off on the whole thing.

monkey woods · « **Reply #29 on:** July 19, 2006, 10:02:10 pm »

Isn't this from the "Teaching In Thailand" training manual?

...and I bet those kids didn't tell their parents. Oooh, "parent confronts teacher" - nah.

Shatapon · « **Reply #30 on:** July 19, 2006, 10:25:09 pm »

Quote from: Mods-Rockers on July 19, 2006, 09:06:34 pm

The worrying thing is that the students think its funny whilst the teacher is obviously getting off on the whole thing.

When asked about this, the students said that they have pain for a few moments, but they get to laugh at the pain of all of their friends. Analyze that!

ajarnnormal · « **Reply #31 on:** July 20, 2006, 08:16:12 am »

Yes I think you picked up on the same wavelength as I did with this. I remember one guy at my school used to be the worst in the class at everything. he thought it funny to get the cane. in fact he was proud of the record for the most canings in the school. His fate was sealed and he spent most of his life in jail. As regrds to punishment for Thai students, I would be interested to hear what you all do if they get out of hand and you have to give some kind of punishment.

monkey woods · « **Reply #32 on:** July 20, 2006, 04:37:52 pm »

Don't go running to the Head's office. This would be seen as "unable to discharge his duties" and would be regarded by Thai staff as a comedy item.

MrTam-di-dai-di · « **Reply #33 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:42:35 pm »

Quote from: Shatapon on July 19, 2006, 08:37:24 pm

I've seen this video. It was taken early THIS year, probably around February. It is the EIP upper mathayom, NOT the Thai program. At the time, these boys were mathayom 4.

EIP high school then???

Uncle Che · « **Reply #34 on:** July 26, 2006, 08:04:03 pm »

I have verified that the video was of M4 students in the EIP Program and that it was taken last year. I am sure JJ can verify the authenticity as well as it was extremely easy for me to.

Mods-Rockers · « **Reply #35 on:** July 26, 2006, 09:07:07 pm »

But would JJ verify if the teacher in the video has been reported to the police??

monkey woods · « **Reply #36 on:** July 27, 2006, 03:56:48 pm »

It doesn't seem to be in JJ's nature to verify very much of anything.

Mods-Rockers · « **Reply #37 on:** July 27, 2006, 04:57:58 pm »

it does not seem that jj knows anything to report, does he know anything at all? or just a Puppet for his masters?

ddee2k · « **Reply #38 on:** July 27, 2006, 07:57:34 pm »

I would guess that, as a year co-ordinator he has a position to protect and wants to climb the greasy pole of management so is a willing defender of the faith.

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Author Topic: Corporal Punishment and the foreigners (Read 2661 times)

Uncle Che

Mods-Rockers

Uncle Che

Mods-Rockers

Mods-Rockers