Topic: Getting legal

[kenkannif]

Monkey Woods,

It's seems far more common nowdays for goverment schools etc. to get their teachers a work permit without them holding a degree (certainly in the 6 years I've been here this is the biggest year for people getting them without a degree). I deal with quite a few teachers all over Thailand.

I think it's getting easier personally.

Also as Nam Tok mentions I too have heard of one a day a week 'courses' that after 12 months will make you legit (looking into now will try and give more info).

[monkey woods]

Thanks Ken.

I'm a worrier, and wouldn't want to risk packing everything up here if there were going to be some problems down the line over there.

If it's not too much trouble, could you explain how a government school could get a work permit for a teacher without a degree?
As I mentioned before, I think any help offered by a school to a teacher with a view to bettering his/her potential to teach is a good thing, and I'd welcome the opportunity to go down that line.

First things first though...

[kenkannif]

Well the first thing is persuading them it's doable....that's the hardest part IMO.

Then you need them to contact the MoE and basically 'vouch' for you or 'sponsor', and tell them why you're capable of doing the job (TEFL, experience, etc.). Once you have the TL or the go ahead from the MoE the WP is pretty much a given.

[hero]

Government school teachers don't need a teacher's license in order to get a work permit.  To satisfy the immigration requirements they need to provide a letter from the local (provincial) government office instead of the teacher's license documentation.

In my (limited) experience government schools don't have any problem obtaining this document.

The support (i.e. them submitting the application with the director's approval) of the school is enough to satisfy the labour department's requirements for providing the work permit.

Basically, if the government school is willing to give you the job they can get you "legal" pretty easily.  I have seen two teachers "legalised" this way this semester.

Private schools = completely different kettle of fish!!!!

I should add, my school is outside Bangkok.  There is the possibility that different provincial immigration police stations and labour departments have different rules!

[Ronaldo]

In my experience working at a 'State' school requires no qualifications whatsoever but they usually would like you to have some experience working in a school of some description, of course some ask for a degree and a TEFL certificate which is often deemed a bonus but a teacher's license is not a requirement, hence the lack of a demand for certification.

State schools in general do not have the funding to hire well qualified teachers, although some of course do, but that it is up to the teacher to take a lower than average salary, however. State schools seem to get things done somewhat easier in terms of visa, WP etc. and of course can be a lot of fun and even, dare I say it, quite professional and well-run establishments.

However, any form of private establishment requires all the necessary certification and all the hoops to be jumped through, its when you go through the hoops that the fun and games begin and it is usually the private establishment that is at fault, this board is testament to the vagaries of that challenge.

[hero]

Hero,

I'd guess they had very shite ones....or they were on the 'list' of dodgy ones.

I've looked into it a little bit .... it seems one of the teachers concerned had an English degree from a silly-named non-existent Cambridge University college!!!

I guess that could have got alarm bells ringing and then led the MoE to check out all of the other certificates the school had "verified". 

One thing I still can't understand though, if the rules are as I thought them to be.  Why haven't the school been investigated/prosecuted for their blatant (repeated) breaches of the law?  No official has ever visited the school to check if the teachers are still working there and there has been no coordination between the MoE and MoL - i.e. they have never asked for WPs to be returned, those that returned them did so voluntarily, others still have them and plan to keep them until they expire (obviously they won't be able to renew them) and I guess they are 'technically' legal until this time.

I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't really seem like they are toughening up that much - teachers could have been in serious trouble for being caught passing fake docs at the end of the day, yet all are still employed at the same place, just now some don't pay any tax!

[monkey woods]

teachers could have been in serious trouble for being caught passing fake docs at the end of the day, yet all are still employed at the same place, just now some don't pay any tax!

How often do these teachers have to leave the country?

[hero]

  Like I said, some of them are still holding their WPs (only the teacher's licenses were cancelled) and there seems not to have been any correspondance from MoE to MoL regarding cancellation of WPs, they won't leave the country until their WPs expire.  Who knows what will happen to them then, my guess being that they may well get away with it if the school sends the WPs back saying they have finished their contracts and are leaving - the teachers then would have to leave the country within 7 days and come back in.  If the MoE have informed the MoL that the teacher's licenses were cancelled then technically they could be in for some hefty fines at the MoL and Immigration.

Other teachers that didin't want to take the risk handed back their WPs and are currently working on 30-day visas - I guess that's how they'll remain as I don't see much hope for them getting TLs in the future (having been caught using fake docs already) and it's a private school so they won't get a WP without a TL!

Looking at the evidence it's hard to see that the MoE are clamping down on teachers passing fake docs.  The teachers I know about have been caught and no action has really been taken (except to rescind the TLs).  I would have thought that if the government were serious then these would be the kind of people to make an example of!

[monkey woods]

In your opinion then, would it strike you as being cavalier if a person uprooted from his home country to seek work (without a degree) as a teacher in Thailand?

[hero]

Well, it's certainly doable - lots of people have done and are doing it here.  You ought to have a backup plan too though, in my opinion.  Just say the situation changes in a couple of years .....

[monkey woods]

Just say the situation changes in a couple of years .....

You had to go and spoil it didn't you? 

[kenkannif]

Thanks Hero....so I wasn't too far off??? I'd agree though it's not really getting any harder, easier if anything.

Basically I'd say the MoE won't do anything to those with WPs....as to do so would be an admittance sp?) that they fucked up....and the old face thing rears it's ugly err face

MW,

You could always do some kind of degree this end while you're teaching. Although I've 'heard' that there are other options which I hopefully will be looking into soon.

[monkey woods]

Cheers, I'll look forward to that.