Topic: Getting legal

[ajarnnormal]

Can anyone tell me what the new regulations are for teachers at the MOE. I was told now they want a letter from your university to verify that you graduated there. What is the new regulation and what does the MOE accept and not accept?

[kenkannif]

Not heard of this mate...wouldn't surprise me if it was your employer asking for it as the MoE has nowt to do with checking them now....rather your employer verifies that they've checked it (regardless of whether they have or not).

Who told you this???

[ajarnnormal]

Not just me mate. Several teachers at my school have in the last week been knocked back from MOE and some have been put on hold waiting for verification from their University. I have managed to get verification and it is going through.

[hero]

wouldn't surprise me if it was your employer asking for it as the MoE has nowt to do with checking them now

Are you sure that this situation hasn't changed?  I personally know of four teachers who had their TLs and WPs rescinded several months after getting them when MOE officials wrote to the school concerned claiming the submitted qualifications to be "not genuine".  It is my strong belief (99.9% sure!) that the school knowingly submitted "dodgy" documentation and therefore it cannot be they who pulled the chain.

[kenkannif]

Ajarn N,

Not just you, but just at your school is what I should have said.


Hero,

They say they might check them after you've put them in...but it seems to happen rarely....and I'd guess they only bust really shite ones, or ones they have on file as fakes.

We've not received any new info in regards to MoE changing the rules again. So I can but assume (sorry chaps!!!).

[hero]

All four were at the same school.  I guess if one of them had been an obvious fake then they may have investigated all concerned.

Didn't the rules change mean that school owners would face prosecution if the situation I described were to happen?

What actually happened was that the school informed the four employees that their teachers' license had been rescinded, but not the WPs.  After several weeks the school decided that they had better notify the MOE that the employees had left the school and cancelled the WPs.  At least one of the teachers keeps a photocopy of his WP (not TL) and is still on the visa he had tied to his WP.  I guess he may get some grief when he finally goes for a new visa!  Another teacher left the country straight after cancelling the WP and came back on a 30-day stamp and carried on the same job!

There was no further action taken and all 4 still work at the school - except now they don't pay any tax!

Where's the logic?

[ajarnnormal]

From what i can gather from the other teachers who have either been knocked back or put on hold is that there is some sort of regulation now regarding getting your teachers licence. This involves getting some sort of verification from your university. As my documents are real and I know for sure that some are not, it just seems a little strange. I did go the consulate last year to get verification but that does not seem enough.

[HoD]

I just happened to read this thread and decided to register in order to post a reply. Not being an EFL teacher (HoD-English @ an international school), I generally have no reason to comment.

Anyway, I can tell you that one kindergarten teacher from my school was 'rejected' by the MoE for trying to use fake documents to obtain her teacher's license. It was the MoE that checked. I'm in charge of the primary school, so I cannot really comment on how the docs got past our kinder school's admin. All I know is that it was indeed the MoE that declared her degree bogus and then literally told the school to file charges against the teacher, or the MoE would come down on the school. This kindergarten teacher had worked for other international schools before moving over to our school, so she had gone through the MoE process before.

Well, that's all I know. Anyway, it seems to me that something is changing over at the MoE.

Regards,
HoD

[monkey woods]

HoD, I'm really interested in how the MOE do this check.

[HoD]

Monkey Woods,

They'd contact the university in question. Most western universities have a certain amount of 'public information' that is available to anyone for the asking. This said, it can often take quite a lot of time, depending on the requirements of each specific university (some may require a formal written request).  The teacher I was speaking about was at our school for almost 6 months (as I recall) before her world caved in.

I really don't know any details, but I simply know it did happen to one teacher in my school.   I also know that when I went to renew my teacher's license for my next 3 year period, it took far longer than in previous years.

Regards,
HoD

[monkey woods]

HoD, I know this is slightly off-topic, but as you are HoD - English, I thought it a good opportunity to ask you this question:

Do you think that, because a person does not have a degree, this should preclude that person from becoming a teacher in Thailand?

I know the view the Thai authorities have on this, but I just thought I'd widen the net.

[NamTok]

Ho D et al,

   The time differences between continents usually makes contacting unis from Thailand difficult, inconvenient and a drawn out process (except for Aust and NZ). This is my 8th year teaching in Thailand, so I've had a lot of extensions (one year) of stay on the visa and a lot of WPs. No verification ever has been required of my BA, MA or Teacher Certification, all earned by me in my native country, the US. As to my Teacher Certification in the US, being abroad I have to renew every five years by taking 9 units of study by distance learning.

   ajarnnormal,

      However, this year I encountered new enforcement of  new and/or long-ignored regs by the Ministry of Immigration. Tomorrow (28 July) is the date Immi will issue my latest 1-year extension on the visa and Min of Labor a new WP. I'm in Satun province in the South which has its own offices of major Thai ministries. As to the 1-yr Immi extension of visa to come tomorrow, for the first time, Immi required my school here to write in Thai the text on each of my degrees/diplomas/certificates. Other farang teachers I know in Satun province say they and their schools have to meet the same requirement. Immi in Satun says Immi in Bangkok is enforcing this long-ignored reuirement nationally. Are they? I don't know, so I ask here and now.
     
    Here's a curious one: In 1999 the Ministry of Education issued a Teacher License to me that is valid for life. Yes, valid forever. I never have had to get another TL in Thailand and didn't this time either, altho Satun Immi had insisted for a while that I get the defined period of time TL rather than be allowed to keep the license to teach in Thailand for eternity. So, the valid-for-life TL I've had from MoE these many years continues to be accepted---but not without some first-time resistance from Immi this time around.

     It does seem that new regs and/or long-ignored regs are being implemented by at least several ministries but especially at Immi and MoE, that is, the ministries we farang ajarns have to negotiate, along with the schools that employ us.

[monkey woods]

That is curious. Mine was issued for a period of three years.

Equally curious is that tomorrow is the 26th July not 28th - don't go down to the office two days early, mate! 

 

[kenkannif]

Yeah I had to renew my TL as well after three years.

Monkey,

You don't need a degree to get a TL and thus work permit in Thailand.

[kenkannif]

From what i can gather from the other teachers who have either been knocked back or put on hold is that there is some sort of regulation now regarding getting your teachers licence. This involves getting some sort of verification from your university. As my documents are real and I know for sure that some are not, it just seems a little strange. I did go the consulate last year to get verification but that does not seem enough.

No the school just has to say they've verified....how they do so is up to them although the MoE does tell them to get a letter (but I don't think the letter is needed to be shown to the MoE).

Consulates can't verify, they just stamp them basically.