Topic: Siam International School- opinions?

[schooner]

Just wondering what the scoop is on Siam International school.  What are the conditions like for teachers?  I see that they have many jobs advertized.  Is that a bad sign?  I know there was a lot written about it on the shut down forum, but it's inaccessible now. 
Thanks!

[brian_q]

I have no idea about this school but some of the questions you might want to ask are:

1. How many farang teachers do they have?
2. Do they insist on verified credentials of their farang teachers (i.e. no "University of Kho Sarn Road" diplomas)?
3. How many students do they have from countries other than Thailand?
4. Where does there curriculum come from?

Sadly, the most "international" thing about many "international schools" in Bangkok is that the only thing "international" about them is the use of the word "international" in their school name.

Cheers

Brian

[Bangkok Phil]

Schooner,
May I ask if you've answered a job ad from Siam International School or if they are using an agent?
Currently this is the only school barred from posting jobs on the ajarn board and so I'm just curious.

[NukeThemSlowly]

This place was on the previous board as a major thumbs down.  Do any of the mods still have access to that material?

[hero]

We did for a while, but it seems to have gone now!

[hero]

It seems at least one of the other mods here can still access it, maybe he will help you out

I can't - so I won't

[Mods-Rockers]

Here is a sample from the old thread:-

"Allow me to share my experience with Siam "International School" (term used very VERY loosely....)

I am an experienced, degreed teacher who worked for this awful place. In the beginning, I was offered the sun, moon and stars and all ideas were welcomed because the owners had a vision of "creating the best school in Asia".

Well, it didn't take long for the owners REAL colours to start to show. Supply cupboards were locked and the only way to even get a pencil was to requisition one. God FORBID you should EVER want anything as expensive as a textbook!!!!

I could go on and on about my horrible experience, but no-one would believe most of it. But, let me highlight just a couple of experience about this place:

1. Contracts mean absolutely NOTHING to these Thai owners. They thing nothing of firing people on-the-spot and then refusing to pay them for work already completed. Their favourite thing to do is to have teachers work the 190 days of their contract and then fire them so they "don't have to pay them over the summer"....despite the fact that the teachers have already complete all the terms of their contract.

2. These owners have learned that there are tons of people buying degrees and diplomas on Khoa San Road, and that's good enough for them. After all, these people will work for lots less than qualified people.

3. This past Christmas, the "school" held a Christmas concert in which all students were REQUIRED to participate. Believe it or not, the owners then CHARGED each student 500 baht to be in the concert!!!!!

4. The original Director, who is a qualified, experienced, dedicated professional administrator was fired from his job when the owners decided that he cared too much for the teachers and insisted that he put teachers on the bottom of the list of priorities (and he refused).

5. Probably my favourite story is that the owners had all of the toilet paper dispensers taken out of the stalls in the toilets and then installed a 2 baht toilet tissue dispenser...thereby charging each student 2 baht to take a dump!!!!!!! "

and to balance

"Thought I better give my two bobs worth seeing that I've been employed at SIS for near on two years now. I enjoyed reading Ratty's thoughtful and accurate comments the most. I'm not sure either whether they will ever learn and nor do I envy them in any way - eventually their actions may hit them where it really hurts. In the wallet. But then again maybe not. Mr Rat has taken a back seat though these days and appears to have less influence, as a result things have calmed and moved forward somewhat. I wonder at times if the affairs of the school were used between the owners as a vehicle for hurting each other during their relationship breakdown. These situations can bring out the worst in us and it wouldn't surprise me if thats what was going on. Time has passed though, Rat's influence has changed and a new experienced director is on board. These things have helped enormously in moving things forward.

I've watched so many good teachers come and go and looked on in sad disbelief as they have. Conversley a lot of teachers had it coming and I would look on with equal disbelief with their incredulous and victimised response. I moarned with some of Soi Dogs comments because I knew them to be true. At others though I giggled because of their exaggeration.
I remember you in your early days at SIS. Your rolling eyes, heavy sighs and complaining nature - and thats before things starting going wrong. I also remember your care for the kids though and sincere interest in others. You always had a smile and joke ready. I would have loved to have seen more of that. As time goes on you will understand the truth less and less about whats going on here and you'll be heavily reliant on second hand perceptions of others. Perhaps its time to let go and let life do its thing around here. It's far wiser than you, me and the owners."

Apart from that there was a major slanging match between two posters both of whom had nothing to do with the school.

[schooner]

Thanks so much for digging that up.  I could see teasers on google searches and links from Dave's ESL, but couldn't get to the actual dirt.  Only school barred from ajarn?  Bad sign...  I found it on another site that advertises international school postings.

I have since been in contact with the school... the package they did offer seemed attractive, training, decent salary, holidays, flights.  My main concern is that they're looking for a new head of school, that could be an indication of instability.

I've worked in Asia before and know it's important to get as much info as possible.  My old school in Korea saw 3 different head teachers in the year and a half I was there, basically as a result of the ridiculousness of the owner.  Anyhow, if someone out there has some recent experience with the school, please, share. 

[ibelieve]

I believe this school is part of Siam Computer & Language group of schools. Can anyone confiirm this?

[Bangkok Phil]

No it isn't.

[Notanewbie]

Phil

Any chance of getting the lowdown on why this school is banned?

[Tainted-Teacher]

On the last day of school, over 20 parents told the acting Academic Director that their children won't be coming back next year.
At the beginning of the year there were nearly 30 foreign teachers.
You can count on one hand the teachers that are staying next year.

[Thai Me Up]

This is a funny but true story...

I was interviewing at Siam International School when, after receiving a telephone call, my farang interviewer abruptly terminated our meeting.  "I just learned that there's a typo on your diploma," she announced.  After she made a couple of snide remarks about buying diplomas on Khao Sahn Road, she marched me downstairs to pick up my college diploma, my college undergraduate transcript, my graduate school transcript, my TEFL certficiate and my California teaching credential that were being photocopied.

"I'll bet you there isn't any typo on my diploma," I ventured.  "There!" she said, "What does that look like to you?"  She tapped her finger on my diploma where the word "Vniversity" appeared.  "If you look at my entire diploma, all instances of the letter 'u' are replaced by the Old English 'v' - it's a style choice by the City University of New York," I said.  She answered, "Yeah, yeah, it's a typo and this meeting is over."

Needless to say, the school made quite an impression on me.   

[Tainted-Teacher]

 There are two ways to accurately assess the professional work ethics of a school and its administration. Simply by answering these two questions:

1. What is the turnover of teachers and Thai staff?
2. What do former teachers and office staff have to say about their previous employer?

The school in question is SIAM International School.

Siam was opened in 2003, and since then three Academic Directors and one Acting Academic Director have been sacked or have resigned.  With a foreign teaching staff of thirty teachers, more than one hundred have come and gone in just three years. You may think that you have worked in a bad school. That is nothing compared to SIS.

In the first year, the Academic Director was out before the end of the second term. At the end of the year, all of the teachers who left, or were asked to leave, were not remunerated for the duration of their twelve-month contract.

The second year was worse after the ownership of the school was transferred from the educated co-owner to the uneducated co-owner.

The admission policy was simple. Everyone who applies to study at SIS is enrolled immediately once they have paid the registration fees and the first term tuition fee (over 300,000 Baht). Their English ability or lack thereof would be the teacher's problem.

This was a year when the Grade 7 students had 4 different science teachers, and a total of 15 teachers came and went before the end of the year.

This last year was no improvement.

Of the three members of the school administration only one of them had a college degree.
Many of the new teachers were employed from overseas, and at the beginning of the year the morale was very high. Until the new Academic Director came that is. She quickly sacked the Thai principal and the Dean of Students, then starting visiting teachers at their homes late at night unannounced. 
When a teacher said that she was leaving this spring, the administration phoned the teacher's new school and told them that this particular teacher was unqualified. 

I'm sure there are many other former Siam employees who would like to add their 2 cents worth, so please do.

[Bangkok Phil]

Phil

Any chance of getting the lowdown on why this school is banned?

It's an unpaid debt of a few thousand baht - nothing more sinister than that I'm afraid.

They made a deal with me (which was not a great amount of money) and after five weeks of still not getting paid, I sent them an email to say that they were banned from posting jobs on the ajarn board period - certainly until the balance was settled. That was the 25th July 2005 and to my knowledge they haven't posted since - certainly not under the name 'Siam International School' - and that's why I'm wondering if they are using an agent to post jobs on the board and effectively 'dodge' the ban and circumnavigate the system.

They know the score. They used to post jobs a lot. 

Actually I've just looked in my 'Siam International School' folder where I keep all their emails and they had a record of bad communication. In one email they apologised for not getting back to me for three weeks because things were 'so busy' and in another email the person apologised for the delay by telling me she'd spent - and I quote - 'a few weeks in Koh Chang'. So one month she was too busy to answer emails and the next month she spent 'a few weeks' on Koh Chang. I'll keep the topic of 'who the hell spends a few weeks on any Thai island?' for another thread.   

[Speaksoftly]

Tainted, thanks for your post, but we already have a discussion topic on Siam International- I've merged your topic into that one.

[Tainted-Teacher]

No problem, as long as you give Siam International School the honour of being in The Hall of Shame.

[schooner]

Are there ANY good schools out there?  I had the almost exact same experience in Korea and want to avoid it again at all costs!  Admin that knows NOTHING about education and only about money.  Parents who come yell at you because their kid can't read as well as another kid in your class.  Parents who threaten to take out their kid if results aren't accomplished.  I love teaching, I'm a certified teacher, but I just want a little support, just a little!  I'm seriously not that picky and work hard.  Is it just a reality that a large percentage of the Asian ESL workplace will be crap? 

Anyway, thanks for the info about the school everyone.  I think my decision has been made.

[gunboat diplomat]

This post is a little late, but comes as a result of the misconduct of the DOS and Management at Siam International School.
The DOS joined the school 6 weeks into the new term last year (05/06). Her main task would be to guide the school towards WASC accreditation (apparently she was a real whiz).  From the beginning of the year, both new staff and old worked hard to set up a curriculum that would cater to all students and that focused on ESL support. The graded reading program was very popular with students and staff alike. When DOS finally arrived, she decided to pretty much cancel out everything the staff, parents and students had been developing over the past year. This was done without any dialogue with those it would affect the most. The school then waited patiently for our Director's vision for the future and for her to do what the job implies - direct the curriculum. It never happened. The owners of the school had to put the WASC application on hold for a year because of her negligence and sloth, this has put into doubt hopes for Grade 11 graduating next year.
However, when I said she had done nothing, that's not entirely true. In some areas she was a real workaholic. For example:

Harassment

DOS moved into a small community of teachers and from the first week began making uninvited visits on staff, in there own homes, at any hour of the night or day. In some cases she actually walked straight into people's homes without permission. Some members of staff also noted that, on nearly every occasion, DOS was intoxicated with alcohol.
When staff had the audacity to complain, DOS retaliated with random class inspections, letters of reprimand (all with errors in grammar - yeah, I know, I'm no Shakespeare myself) and generally inferred to the owners of the school that such people were bad teachers and probably unqualified. Yes, she has alleged on numerous occasions as to the authenticity of teacher credentials. Now if you contact any teacher who worked at the school they will happily supply you with their teacher license numbers from the home country along with contact numbers and whatnot. The truth is the school had a first class, dedicated and hard working faculty.
DOS generally rolled into her office about an hour after most teachers had started work.

Ignorance of Thai Culture

Obviously, when you are new to a culture as alien as Thailand, Thai people don't expect you to be perfect in your manners and conduct. What they do expect is that you at least pick up the basics of their customs. DOS did not bother and caused great offence to Thai and Foreign staff and to parents and students. This was most notable when she took down certain royal photographs and laid them face down on the corridor floor.

Unfair dismissals

If any member of staff disagreed with DOS, openly or in private, then there days at the school were numbered. We were lucky enough to have a teacher from the US who had been through the WASC accreditation process. In a meeting with the owners and staff, he had the courage to stand up and explain where, precisely, DOS was not doing her job. It was a long list - over 20 points. He was sacked a few weeks later. Our highly respected ESL teacher was fired because, according to DOS, he was unqualified, he was been replaced with someone who has exactly the same qualifications. He needed to be in the job one more month to be able to legally adopt his 12 year-old step-daughter. DOS knew this but sacked him anyway - at Xmas. He's 62.
 Since DOS joined the school over 15 people left, either fired or so depressed they decided to move on. A further 12 teachers sadly informed the school that they would not be returning for 06/07 and cited DOS as there main reason for quitting.

Incompetence

To put it bluntly, she was thick (remember the typo interview?).
Case in point, recently we had a very serious incident where one student cut another with a knife. That same day, at a very emotive emergency faculty meeting, DOS exclaimed,  "then he just went all loony!"
Please take a moment to let that sink in. How would you feel if you were the parent of the boy who had committed such a terrible act? I can not imagine the horror and shame they must have gone through.
How would you then feel when you found out your child was called a "loony" by the head teacher of the school?
Good God.

Hypocrisy

DOS, near the end of the year, informed our K3 teacher that he would not be welcome back next year (such a delightful turn of phrase the gal has, eh?). Poor guy has a wife and kids to think about so he finds another job in a Thai school and hands in his notice. So the owners think, "well, DOS has done nothing for her considerable salary since the day she started so maybe she can teach K3". The head of Kindergarten made repeated requests to her for lesson plans to cover the few remaining weeks of the year. Now having used LP's to beat the staff over the head, we all expected some pretty hot stuff from DOS. Sadly, nothing was forthcoming and, on her first day of work, DOS called the school to say she was in hospital (nobody is sure which one) and that she would be off for 2 weeks. What a coincidence.

All of this happened under the nose of the owners of the school and the thai school manager.
A lot of decent people left what could have been an excellent little school.
A lot of great kids are getting their education shafted because the management will make the same mistakes over and over.

Does this sound familiar?

[think4yourself]

 
Yes, gunboat, this does sound familiar... too familiar.  I have seen this before at other schools.

It only takes one person in a management position to totally ruin a school.  Even though it is hard to believe, often school owners like (even love) such managers that you have described because they want someone who can enforce their will and "control" foreign staff.  Such individuals, once they get into that position, speak ill of the teachers at every opportunity when talking to the owner and are quick to tell their side of the story so that the owner's eyes are completely colored by this poison (sorry, I mean...) person's view.  Instead of supporting the teachers, it becomes the twisted agenda of the management to suppress them in the hopes that they will simply toe the line.  Sharing ideas are not welcome, "just do your job" or "just do as I say."  Obedience or even "arce kissing" rather than job performance becomes more important for deciding who is a good teacher.  "Bad teachers" may actually be super teachers in reality but are painted "bad" simply because they forgot to wai or stood up for something that they knew was important for their students.  And once you give your notice you are suddenly labeled as "bad" regardless of your past performance or popularity with other staff and students.

It is best when faced with such a situation that you have described to give notice because it will be a loss of face for the school owner to sack someone they hired and initially liked and supported.  I recall one manager I knew of who bullied his teachers but I heard him praised by the owner because "he knows how to control all of the teachers."  Even when many teachers are leaving, the school owner sees them as "bad" teachers because the "good" DOS or whomever has made sure the owner has believed his/her side of the story.

Does this DOS still work at this school? 

[gunboat diplomat]

Sacked on the last day of school. By then the damage was done.
It was important to note the advert placed in the post a week before the start of school. They were asking for 8 new teachers.

[Thai Me Up]

gunboat diplomat,
I want to thank you so much for your extensive post that chronicles the DOS' tenure at SIS.  I am so relieved that she discovered the non-typo on my diploma and instantly dismissed me from my job interview at the school.  I would not have enjoyed being cannon fodder for this character, any more than the other teachers who were victimized and sacked during her reign.

[gunboat diplomat]

My pleasure, thai me up.
You were, indeed, very lucky.
They have now, apparently, a kick-ass admin team that's really gonna turn things around and put Siam up there with ASB and NIST.
Please stop laughing.
This is the major problem with lower league, start-up, wannabe international schools. Owners think themselves as rich enough to compete with schools that have been around for years and have around 2000 kids on the books. They don't realise that the big-shot owners spend there days lounging around and counting the millions.
'Wannabes' man manage the business with no real idea and an absolute mistrust of the foriegn staff who should be running it.
The DOS in question really was a disaster (gone back to the great north i think - and good riddance) but the root problem remains the same. We, as teachers, can jump ship when it gets dodgy, but families are stuck there - especially when Siam tries to squeeze advance payments. I knew one guy who'd paid up a few years in advance and was spitting blood.
It would certainly make interesting reading if there was a parent/student version of teflwatch.

[Thai Me Up]

gunboat, I don't feel sorry for parents who've paid up tuition years in advance.  When I interviewed at the school, the physical plant was still under construction.  If a parent wants to invest in a start-up school under construction with small enrollment, that's a risk they're willing to take.  I think it's "buyer beware" for parents shopping a start-up international school.  As a teacher, I'm not willing to accept the risk of working for a start-up school.  In fact, I also interviewed at Keera-Pat IS, another impressive school still under construction.  Without systems in place and a small enrollment, I opted not to teach there until the bugs were worked out.

[gunboat diplomat]

I agree that it show's a lack of judgement on the part of some parents (incl farrang). However, I still feel sorry for them and, more importantly, their kids. After working with them for some time, I developed a great deal of respect for all of the families. The stu's became very attached to the school and there was always good working relationships between teachers and students. As students leave it causes upset amongst friends.
It's depressing to see schools fail through no fault of staff or families.

[NukeThemSlowly]

This place just keeps generating stories where the truth is funnier than comedy.

Things I've heard about the place from various folks who worked there-

They used to have a proper curriculum director and hire proper teachers, and they were shooting for IB- then they all got fired.

At various points the owner fires the director (not sure how many times so far) and takes over himself.

At one point a teacher whose class kept asking when they would get books suggested they go ask the director himself if they wanted- this class (including the owner's own daughter) agreed and did so- you can imagine what happened to the teacher in question.

At one point the owner was also living in the girl's swimming pool changing room for an extended period of time because his wife had thrown him out.

They are now so screwed up administratively that the school is unaccredited according to any standard.  As a result, some of the students are looking into GED equivalency programs (heard this from one of the parents).

Stay far, far away from there.

[gunboat diplomat]

All true Nuke, however, using students to make a point with the boss shows, to me anyway, a callous and unprofessional manner. If a teacher has a huge problem with the admin then he/she should grow a pair of balls and and quit.

[Uncle Che]

This school has been inducted into the Hall of Shame.