These Forums are not in heavy use anymore, I suggest you say up for an account on the main page, Freelance TEFL. It's a social networking TEFL site where you can make your own groups and have your own little place on the TEFL web.

Author Topic: Bangkok Christian College  (Read 28569 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Uncle Che

  • Guest
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2006, 06:09:25 pm »
So really, the security deposit is a contract completion bonus and the real salary is less? I guess that is the way a teacher should view the job. The amount of wage being held back is paying for your bonus.  {-}


Offline MrTam-di-dai-di

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2006, 11:34:39 am »
4000 is taken out over 5 months to total 20 000.

If you fail to give 14 days notice while on probation, or 90 days after passing it, you won't see it again. They say they have to many runners, we've argued against it, that they could be throwing out the baby with the bath water, but I doubt we'll see progress on this one. Of course, if you go before Xmas, or completing the contract, you won't see those bonuses either, but there have to be some consequences for breach of contract.

An inflation adjustment, on top of salary increases is on the way, however.

Offline NukeThemSlowly

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2006, 10:55:00 am »
A longer notice once the school has committed sounds only fair.  But 90 days sounds silly.  I wouldn't take the legality of this for granted- this is BCC, after all- it would probably be good for some wise soul to see if there is a legal limit on the amount of notice a company can require a departing employee to give (without penalty) for any reason- I bet there is one, and I bet it's smaller than 90 days.

Mods-Rockers

  • Guest
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2006, 11:45:12 am »
Yep there is! under Thai employment laws there is only a requirement to give 30 days notice on completion of probation period, However if I remember correctly BCC say they are not covered by these laws and only by education laws, which I think is baloney. However it would require a teacher there to take it to the courts and prove them wrong. the problem there is that BCC is big enough to cause the case to drag its way through the courts and thus bankrupt the teacher beofre a resolution to the case.

Seems that might is right in the land of smiles.

Offline NukeThemSlowly

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2006, 01:24:12 pm »
^Many times it is- but don't forget that this school has been sued by aggrieved teachers successfully (there was one thread on Ajarn last hiring season).  I think they depend a lot on people thinking that suing doesn't work, but labour law in this country is actually pretty strong.  Sue the b*stards!

Offline ajarnboomboom

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2006, 08:44:01 pm »
I saw the thread from the guy on ajarn about a year ago and I have to admit, I was one of the doubters who told him to move on.  But he didnt, he went ahead and got his money.

Offline durian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2006, 07:42:21 am »
An inflation adjustment, on top of salary increases is on the way, however.
Oh really?

Can you elaborate?

Offline MrTam-di-dai-di

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2006, 09:44:24 am »
Not a lot, I was told that it is being calculated now, to be added on top of your anual increase. Should be ready when contracts are signed  :D.

Offline NukeThemSlowly

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2006, 05:10:03 pm »
This year will they actually fill in the numbers first, or are they going to try to ask the employees to sign them on faith with blank spaces for salaries and raises, like they tried to do not so long ago?    >:D

Offline MrTam-di-dai-di

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2006, 09:27:34 am »
This year it's filled in. They have changed it for the better! See sometimes things improve.  :)

Offline MrQ

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2006, 04:42:00 pm »
I just remembered that I applied to work at BCC last year as a science teacher. I sent my resume in and 6 weeks later they called me up and asked if I would come to school the next day at 8am to teach a demo class and have an interview (on a Saturday). I told whoever it was that called to bugger off he had six weeks to contact me and he isa asking me to go to BKK the next day (I only live an hour and half away but it's a pain) to teach a demo science lesson.

He even called me on saturday morning at about 9am to check to see if I was lost. Pillock.

Offline durian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2006, 01:21:32 pm »
The school year is over and no doubt many new teachers are thinking about working at BCC. Here are a few observations.
 
The school management (a.k.a. "the board") is a complete and unmitigated disaster. They have neither skills nor interest in making the school a productive and rewarding workplace. They treat foreign teachers with contempt and most of the time it appears that they are trying to make things as difficult as they possibly can. I suspect it is their ignorance and lack of interest rather than malice and, from what I've seen, they treat Thai teachers with the same lack of consideration. Except, of course, Thai teachers take all that crap with a smile.
 
The Thai administrator is incompetent, and his main role is to deflect any and all communication from the teachers and make sure they don't reach the board. In the rare cases that anything gets past past him and gets to the board, the board's standard response is that they will look into the issue in the future. In most cases the teachers never hear about the issue again. Should one of the teachers follow up and persist, he is marked as a trouble maker with a direct impact on his future career at BCC. In the rare cases that the board actually does respond, the communication does not go directly to the teachers; rather, it is passed through the foreign coordinator, with caveats such as "if I understand correctly" etc. Thus the board can always claim misunderstanding and deny any responsibility.
 
Apart from acting as a buffer, the Thai administrator also takes care of the paperwork, such as visa, teachers' licence, etc. He knows less about the process than many of the teachers who have been in Thailand for a few years, and flat out refuses to process paperwork in any way other than what he knows. This affects people with Thai wives with a Non-Imm O visa, as well as people with Non-Imm B visa which are not tied to the job ( e.g. investment-based B). On top of being ignorant and uncooperative, his organization skills are non-existent and on several occasions he has lost teacher's important paperwork, including passports.
 
Now let's talk about the contract (and the Employee Handbook which is the extension of the contract).
 
Teachers are usually required to sign the contract before the salary figure is written in. But it makes very little difference even if the salary is written in--in at least one case this past year they have whited out a portion of the contract containing a negotiated salary increase. It took the teacher an entire year to get the board to admit they owe him extra money and to give it to him. And the only reason that happened is that one of the Thai teachers intervened on his behalf and confirmed, in front of the school director, that the teacher was promised the amount at the time he signed the contract.. The Thai teacher, who is the backbone of their English program, has since been demoted to a regular teacher position in the Thai program.?
 
The contract states that "The Employee will be entitled to a cash sum of 17,000 Thai Baht as a return air-fare allowance from Bangkok to his/her home country, payable after the successful completion of the contract."
 
The management is now saying that they will pay the 17,000 Baht at the end of April, rather than before the summer break (which begins on or around March 21), and that the teachers are supposed to travel around Thailand during their break, rather than fly to their home countries. The management also say that it will not be a cash bonus, but part of payrol.
 
While one could theoretically argue that contract completion date is April 30, giving an air-fare allowance after the summer break defies its purpose. Besides, many of the teachers are leaving Thailand permanently and the delay in getting their travel allowance and the April salary creates hardship for many of them.
 
Additionally, the management announced that they will deduct money from the April paycheck for the late clock-ins and absences for the entire year. This leave the non-returning teachers in? a situation where they cannot get any accounting for the deductions, or dispoute the deducted amount.
 
At the same time, the school refuses to renew visa for the non-returning teachers. In most cases the teacher's visa expire in March and April, and the teachers who intend to stay in Thailand until April 30 (the end of contract period) will not have a valid visa.
 
The school management gives the teachers as little information as possible so that they cannot make specific objections. A few examples. Teachers do not know their performance is evaluated, or even what are the criteria. The contract states, "The Employee will receive a monthly salary increment in accordance with the relevant salary scale upon renewal of His contract for a further year." When the teachers requested the information about the relevant salary scale, they were told that "The concern is that releasing their guide could result in more divisiveness among peers as the salary is ultimately based on individual negotiation."
 
The contract contains several provisions that are in direct contradiction of the Thailand Labour Protection Act of 1998. These include the number of medical leave days limited to 7 per year (vs 30) and the 20,000 Baht that the school deducts from each teacher's salary and keeps as a "safeguard against the Employee terminating his Contract without giving the Employer a three month notice." The three month notice requirement is also in contradiction of the 1988 act.
 
One of the teachers wrote a letter to the board challeneging some of these provisions. He was fired without reason at the end of probation, and the school board's response was, "The Boards attorney(ies) indicated that Bangkok Christian College (BCC) and other such schools are exempt from the Thailand Labour Department and applicable laws."
 
I am not an attorney but suspect this sounds like a complete nonsense.
 
At the end of the year, the school gives a letter of intent to all teachers, inviting (or not) them to renew contract for the next school year. This year they un-invited one of the teachers with a degree in education and decades of experience, a teacher who did not do anything wrong, except that he occasionally stood up against the management's unethicals dealings with both the staff and the students.
 
Another teacher got fired for allegedly using fake credentials. This is second hand information for me, but several sources confirmed that his credentials are real but there was a glitch in communication and his school which not confirm his degree. Which would be fine, except the way BCC chose to handle it is that they sat on this information several, let the teacher finish the term, and as soon as they had the term grades they had him escorted from the premises by the police without paying him his March and April salaries, end of term bonus, or the flight bonus.
 
Finally, responses to a few earlier posts which defend BCC and their practices.
 
MrTam-di-dai-di wrote: "I don't think the deduction creates any good will at all, but we all signed the contract right??"
 
Except ...first, the school is in a position of an absolute power and the teachers who want to work here have no choice except to sign it. As a result, the teachers are often signing contracts without the salary figures and the employess never get a copy of the contract at the time they sign it. Besides, the board violates the contract at will and, as a result, the contract if worth less than the roll of Quilted Northern in my bathroom.
 
"Teachers at BCC come to work drunk, smelly, unprepared, etc."
 
That's simple--fire them. If they are not fit to be teachers, get rid of them. That's what the four months of probation are for. Keeping bad teachers, however, is not an excuse for unethical or illegal actions by the BCC management.
 
"Charges against BCC are the same as againt other schools in Bangkok."
 
First of all, I agree that I bring with me a Western perspective. Just like back in Canada, if someone is breaking a law, they are a criminal; if someone is stealing money, they are a thief; if someone is violating a contract, they are a fraud.
 
It is one of the favorite tricks of the BCC management to hide behind the "Thai culture" whenever they do something unethical. The fact that most Thai schools have the same problems may be an issue for alt.thai.culture, but that does not absolve or justify the unethical behaviour practiced by the BCC. After all, even here in Thailand there are schools which are well managed, and honest in their dealings with their employees.
 
It's unfortunate that Bangkok Christian College is not one of them.

PS: Last minute update:

- Under pressure from the teacher, BCC did agree to give the teachers their fligh bonus with their March salary.

- BCC also paid the teachers for the camp, except they gave the techers 2,000 Baht instead of the promised amount of 3,300 Baht. (Again, in Canada this is called stealing.)

- The new contract apparently does include some of the changes changes that the teacher asked for over a year ago.

- The request for pay-scale adjustment for inflation was flat out refused.

Overall, it is a lot better conclusion of the school year than most teachers expected.

Offline Bangkok Phil

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
  • Karma: +3/-6
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2006, 06:58:14 pm »
Good post Durian. I enjoyed reading it.
Don't suppose there's any chance of getting one of the board on here is there? I think we'd all like to hear what they've got to say to that excellent account of yours.

Offline durian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2006, 11:00:26 pm »
Good post Durian. I enjoyed reading it.
Don't suppose there's any chance of getting one of the board on here is there? I think we'd all like to hear what they've got to say to that excellent account of yours.

Thanks for the compliment, Phil.

I don't think there is a chance the board could be bothered with what the native teachers think about BCC. In the past there were a few posters at TSW who defended BCC. I have a pretty good idea which of the BCC coordinators/administrators they were. I suppose it's part of their job to defend the school and I can't really blame them for it, but I did not think their responses were genuine.. But then, they don't ever address any issues with the employees, so how could one expect them to provide straight answers on a public board?

The only reason I can imagine the BCC management would make any effort to change their behaviour is if their reputation were to affect their bottom line. And, frankly, that is not likely to happen. There is a waiting list for students trying to get to BCC, even with the astronomical tuition amount and the required bri... pardon me, donation.

Offline MrTam-di-dai-di

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bangkok Christian College
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2006, 08:42:01 am »
Some fair  points Durian, but a few are things I've never heard of.

Whiting out salary amounts with liquid paper?? Really?? Never happened to me or anyone I know in Prathom, they were written into the contract last year, but they have thankfully changed to have a itemised printed salary amounts this time. A small victory.

The flight bonus will indeed be payed today, and next academic year it will range from 17 000 to 24 000 baht. Another little victory.

We lost the battle over an inflation adjustment, something that quite disappointed me, but this could be part of a 'prestige' based budgetary dispute between the Thai and English programs.

The work permit responsibilities have been given to someone else (thank God) in the H.R Dept, another small win for us.

In Asia, whatever the school, sometimes issues of face will over-ride what is in the best interests of the school. But overall, we have taken three steps forward, and one backwards this academic year.

I'm content if we keep moving forward a little every year, it has to be incremental in order to be sustainable, and you will find few schools except for Assumption (outside of internationals) that can match it in terms of resources, salary and bonuses, and tolerance of western teaching methods and work attitudes. This may be a shocking point to those of you that have never taught at a bad Thai school, but believe me, there is a lot worse out there. 

It can be productive to engage in constructive criticism,  but is it fair to expect the world from a school that has limited expectations of us??

BTW, I'm not, and never would be part of Admin or management, just a humble home room teacher.

Happy hols all.

 

Affiliated With the Better Living Quest