Topic: Bangkok Christian College

[hero]

The following post has been rescued from the old Thaischoolwatch board, where it was originally posted by a poster unknown!  I'm sure there are others from the old TSW board to follow!  I chose to repost this "warning" as two personal friends (one friend and one colleague actually) have spent time at the school in question and tell me that what is reported below (and worse) is true!  It is a high-profile school and one which I have heard many negative rumours about from other teachers, however I suspect there will always be teachers willing to put up with a bit of rough treatment for 50k, a lot of much nicer schols pay less after all!

Bangkok Christian College EIP Program

BCC EIP, a program based at BCC (an all-boys school near Surasak Station BTS on Sathorn downtown), is an all-foreign-taught EP program employing a growing number of foreign teachers for various subjects from English to math to science to health, even P.E.

Avoid it! The working conditions (roughly 50K beginning wages) look good at first glance; they are good in comparison to 30K TEFL jobs - if you keep the job. I've known multiple people in various subjects who had problems with dishonest management, and the uptight, snobbish, parents of the spoilt students there.

Usually these problems come just within the boundaries of the law, though the school was recently slapped with a fine when sued by an employee for their favorite trick of firing new workers who believe they have not "passed probation" right before what would supposedly be paid vacations. Seems that the school didn't realize their definition of probation violated Thailand's labour laws on the subject.

Turnover is incredibly high. At this point in time, only a few of the foreign teachers there have stayed/survived over a year. The teachers who stay tend in general to do so by being entertainers and by ignoring the atrocities committed by their students. I once witnessed one of the more "popular" teachers being pelted by paper balls in a class full of screaming kids pitifully trying to maintain his composure in the classroom.

Sycophancy is another useful tool of survival at BCC. Many teachers tear down others to avoid being targetted by the paranoid middle and upper management. Being willing to put up with the inefficiency and almost endless paperwork is a good way to stay under the radar.

There is a token foreign manager (who has changed almost every year over the last few years) who has no power. It does not matter what he reports about your teaching or your performance; if the EIP program head from the "Board" wants you out for whatever reason (the most common unstated reason being that you've offended some parent by forcing her precious little worm to behave), you'll be out. Most of the time the parents will not contact you, your boss, or even the "Board" member in charge of EIP; they have the phone number of the school director and speak directly to him/her. You'll be lucky if ever you know there's any problem, much less supported in any educational terms in resolving it.

Sometimes they show completely callous disregard for their foreign employees; one man was told that he couldn't keep his job the next year unless his wife (a popular lady with the parents) stayed. Another man was promised that his wife would be given a job when he came to work there; she wasn't. A third man was fired after being promised a job for the following year, because another teacher had secretly demanded it. The teachers who have lost their jobs before vacation for no reason because they didn't "pass probation" are too numerous to list. While a number of them have in fact been unsatisfactory employees, an equal number simply were axed because a parent (even a single parent), a Thai staff member, or even another teacher stabbed them in the back. Some of the nicer parents there have complained that teacher turnover is too high as a result of this constant infighting, and many of their (nicer) students have left the school as a result of this dissatisfaction.

It's just as pleasant as it sounds. They've acquired such a poor reputation among teachers in Bangkok that they're now apparently forced to go through a hiring agency. Foreign teachers from other schools have told me they've had to yell at BCC students on the BTS to behave (I am not making this up).

If this sounds worth it for 50K (while you keep the job), then be my guest.

[hero]

Well it would seem that there are so many things that I could mention about working at Bangkok Christian College; an all boys ?school? in Bangkok but I will endeavor to stick to just the pertinent facts.

To start on a positive note, in spite of all the problems, unprofessionalism, bad management practices and so forth; some of the students were great and I did actually enjoy teaching them. Some of the teachers were professional and did do their best under difficult circumstances to function to the best of their abilities.

The selection process and interviews

Looking back I should have seen the warning signs at this initial stage.

Go for an initial interview, get offered a job that has already been filled by someone else, get offered another job two days later, and have to go back for another interview; (This shows was disorganized they are)

Get interviewed by someone who appears to have:

a)? ?Little or no management experience.
b)? ?Little knowledge about the subject they teach.
c)? ?Little or no teaching experience.

Once you have in theory? accepted the job, you have to go in front of the ?board? where they ask you lots of pertinent teaching related questions such as; Do you drink?; Do you smoke?; What religion are you? How long have you stayed Thailand? Etc.

Then one of the board members will actually get your degree out of its protective plastic cover (if you use one) and give it a good rub between their fingers before accusing you of presenting a fake document. Then they will ask you if you can verify that it is real. If you are not insulted enough by this questioning of your qualifications; you will realize that they don?t even have the ability to tell if someone is trained to be a teacher,? or even whether someone is a graduate or a factory worker (Apologies to factory workers who are in fact over qualified to work here, but will at least not complain about swiping in and out every day at the start and end of their shift).

If you pass the ?Board? (apologies for capitalizing the ?B? but in this school the Board is accorded the same status as God i.e. their word is referred to often, but you never see them and they are not accountable to anyone) then you have the job for as long as they say (see the later section of probation).

The Salary.

The verbal offer did not match the offer on the contract that was presented to me when I went in to sign it. It was 2000 baht a month less. (This seems to be the admin staff getting above his station and deciding what the offer is himself) You should note at this point that there is a pay scale, but, you cannot see it as it would not be ?fair to other teachers? if they all knew how much each other were getting.

Oh yes and all teachers lose 4000 baht per month for 5 months in order to ensure they do not run away without giving 90 days notice (never mind that the contract said 14 days notice and was changed in pen after it had been signed to 90 days)

On an aside, another teacher wrote onto the contract the conditions of his promised pay rise after he had passed probation and this was whited out!!

We did not see those contracts for 2 - 3 months after we had started work, we were not given a copy when we signed which we should have been. Most contracts had been changed after they had been signed (to change the 14 days notice to 90 days which was written in pen with the 14 days simply crossed out and the 90 written above it)

OK so to sum up; the basic monthly salary was now 2000 less than the initial offer, plus 4000 less for the security deposit, plus if you were unfortunate enough to come through an agency you also lost another 2000 baht per month; and lastly the icing on the cake, it costs you 10 baht of your own money to get paid your salary into a bank account chosen by your employer and at a branch also chosen by them!!!

I also know two teachers who were verbally promised increments in their salary as a merit increase and subsequently did not receive it (it was only a paltry amount anyway, but one teacher did understandably quit over this issue)

The Thai admin staff

A saga of lost paperwork, lost degree certificates, cancelled visas, even lost passports! One teacher had her existing non immigrant B visa cancelled by the Thai admin staff without a new visa being issued and managed to rack up an overstay fine of about 20,000 baht. The teacher in question left in disgust. The last thing is they asked her to come back and if she did they might pay her for working??!!! Needless to say they did not pay her overstay fine which they caused.



The Thai teachers

Imagine you are teaching, half way into a lesson, you might be explaining some tricky algebra or trigonometry when a Thai teacher wants to come and talk to your students.

So how should they behave?

a) Knock on the door, apologize for interrupting the lesson and ask if it will be ok to have a quick word with the students.

b) Just open the door and lean in not even acknowledging that there is a class going on and just make their announcement while the teacher is still teaching.

Yes the correct answer is, you?ve guessed it a) however the correct answer for any Thai member of staff is b) (This just shows an element of the contempt and lack of respect the Thai staff at this school show their foreign staff)





The Farang teachers

AHA a chance to be positive. Some of the teachers are great, enthusiastic, motivated, and do their best within the system they find themselves.

Other teachers however, especially some of them that have been there a while and have made it to some kind of management position should be avoided due to the back stabbing that goes on; this can be put this down to them knowing that they are useless teachers and unqualified. The sad fact is that they don?t want to look bad, so they ensure that everyone else looks worse.

The Probation

The holy of holies, the big stick that is used to beat all malcontents into submission. Probation would be a great idea if it was transparent, measurable, and objective; unfortunately however it is not. In fact you won?t even know the criteria by which you are being measured.

You can get terminated at any time in the first 120 days of your employment without them giving any reason at all. One teacher was told he had failed probation and at the same time asked to work past his probationary period and finish the semester; another teacher worked past probation and then was told he hadn?t passed. (He still did not know why or how he had failed probation but at least he got some kind of settlement). The school will not specify reasons when terminating a probationary employee!

Great stuff, so you can get fired with no notice, for any reason (which in any case you are not told). The number of teachers who ?did not pass probation? is too many to count. As they never knew the reasons anyway, it was impossible for them to dispute.

The Observations

As they don?t have a clue about any capabilities of any of their teachers, you get to be observed often, usually with no criteria, and more often than not with no feedback.? Oh yes and being observed by a Thai teacher who is up to date on western teaching methodology is also a great idea, or giving a manager the responsibility who seems to have no educational background is also a great idea. Still there are no criteria and little or no feedback so who cares? There is no merit increase due to ability or if there is a promise of a merit increase it will vanish as though it had never existed.


The Extra Duties

Parents evenings and so forth are on a Saturday, extra duties are always on a weekend, so forget about that extra work at Go International, you get to come to school and work (you will not be told the dates in any case in advance; oh and the same goes for the holidays which are a secret not to be given to any member of staff just in case they like to plan a little bit ahead in their lives).

You also will pay for the privilege of having a lovely BCC jacket and skirt/trousers made. This will be in the second semester anyway so you won?t have much time to wear it anyway (unless you sign on for another year, but at least you will have passed probation so you can breath easy).

Oh and to end this section, how could I forget the ?spiritual awareness week? where you have to go everyday (if you have no free periods, you go in your lunch break) and listen to some evangelical moron bang on about God and Jesus for 40 minutes.

The Exams

Academic standards are not very high, teachers teach their own materials, (if they are lucky there will be books to use, if they are very lucky the students will also have books) and they set their own exams for their own students. It is the teacher?s fault if any student fails, and no student fails in any case as every teacher was told to
?fiddle the grades to ensure that no student fails? (that is a quote from a school memo); the whole grading and evaluation system is laughable. The students are as a consequence, not the most motivated students I have ever taught.


The Students

Some of the students are great, especially in the gifted classes, but (and this is a big but), most of the normal students will do absolutely nothing because they know they cannot fail. Homework will not be done, students take cushions into class to sleep, students are lazy, unmotivated although some of them are very bright.

A couple of pretty damning posts regarding one of Bangkok's "finest" schools!? I wonder if we'll get a response............

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

In the interest of balance, why don't you 'rescue' one of the positive posts??

[Uncle Che]

Well, if I was looking out for the best interests of the school, then I would look for positive posts and put them up here. But I am not, I am looking out for the best interests of teachers. And the sheer volume of posts, if I rescued one positive rebuttal, I would have to rescue them all. It is more fair this way.

[samvimes]

I would add that only one post was rescued from the old site, the other post was sent in via email or PM possibly from a teacher that still works there as they were reluctant to post it up themselves.

[hero]

In the interest of balance, why don't you 'rescue' one of the positive posts?Huh?

Good point!  Personally, I haven't seen one Obviously that doesn't mean they don't exist

[Mods-Rockers]

I seem to remember that there were some people on the tsw thread saying things in support of the school or at least one section of the school. The name "Dr som nan na" rings a bell. but he stated that there are different sections to the school: Matayom, Prathom, EP and EIP and such like. I seem to remember that he was only supporting one section and tending to agree that others deserved the mudslinging.

Personally I cannot comment either way as I have never worked there nor to my knowledge do I know anyone who does/has.

[qwerty]

Good God not again..........

The thing with this BCC situation is that it's VERY two sided.
Teachers absent thruough hangover - A LOT!
Teachers leaving school during school hours - A LOT!
Teachers extending holidays without permission - A LOT!
Teachers not attending meetings.
Visa runs that last a week.
Teachers that issue a worksheet and call it a lesson plan!
Teachers asleep in class - YES ASLEEP!
Teachers NOT meeting dealines for reports / exams / lesson plans / photocopying etc.



Teachers that say "Yes, I'll be back next year" and then proceed to take the bonus / holiday pay and run!

And that's just us!

All of this kind of thing eventually winds up the boss, causing them to tighten thing up a bit.
Yes, I know only too well that the contract is not what we'd call 'kosher' but in general I find
that if I play ball the school play ball too.

I am a foreingner earning a bloody good living in a foreign land.
Sometimes cultural / regional differences bewilder me, but like I said, Im the foreigner.

I've had jobs back home that make this look like a week in the Oriental!
I've had bosses that are complete animal tyrants compared to these guys.

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

I work in the EIP primary section.

Most people in this section seem happy or at least content.

I have never had my salary docked in any way in 3 years.

I have access to good books (McGraw-Hill), OHPs, Science labs, library, AV centre, and last year they bought me a TV and DVD player to use in class.

The Thai manager of the primary section argues for our proposals to the board and refunds us when we buy things for class, plays, and activities. She understands and asks us to use foriegn teaching techniques.

I admit there are big problems with the personnel dept losing important documents.

I have a foriegn assistant to help me, shared with my year level teaching partner.

I get to be a homeroom teacher, which is far more rewarding than seeing 40 classes a week.

I get a months salary bonus for Christmas, and a flight bonus. I like it there (BCC's EIP primary section), sure some communication problems, things cancelled at the last minute but that is normal in Thailand.

BCC's EIP along with Assumption's EP are the best Thai private school bilingual programs outside of international schools. They are number one and number two respectively.

Things are very different in the regular program, IEP, and even in the high school of the EIP. I recommend seperating this thread into four threads, as per the above depts to facilitate a constructive discussion.

[hero]

I disagree, I think what we have already amounts to a constructive discussion.  i.e. Nicely constructed arguments from both sides.

[Uncle Che]

Good God not again..........


Teachers that say "Yes, I'll be back next year" and then proceed to take the bonus / holiday pay and run!

And that's just us!

Sorry, I take issue with the holiday pay/bonus.

The bonus is for completing a contract, it isn't for signing a new contract. That is called a signing bonus and what we have in many schools in Thailand is a contract completion bonus. There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking it and going, the problem is that schools dont like to pay it and will withhold it for no reason if the teacher doesnt say yes to another contract. The teacher is only taking care of himself by saying they will do another contract and then run.

About holiday pay? if a teacher signs a 12 month contract from May 1st until April 30th then the school is obligated to pay them for vacation months whether they sign another contract or not. Sleazy schools don't pay it and violate labor law by doing that. The smart teacher will say yes, yes, yes, yes and then when the new contract times comes around will say adios, amigos!

Remember, the holiday pay is yours for completing the school year, not for signing another contract.

All I can say Mr Qwerty is that if BCC is doing the above to teachers(cutting short 12 month contracts and/or refusing to pay bonuses) then it deserves it's position here on the board.

(I am begging for you to come back here and set the record straight because I didn't think BCC was that bad.)

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

I don't know of anyone that signed a 12 month contract having any money at all deducted or withheld in the three years I've been there.

They used to have some 11 month contracts in other depts, but you would have knowingly signed an 11 month one.

[samvimes]

BCC's EIP along with Assumption's EP are the best Thai private school bilingual programs outside of international schools. They are number one and number two respectively.

And that my friend is not saying a lot.

[hero]

Having previously worked in "Bangkok's number one government school for boys"  I don't put much value in these titles.  Such descriptions usually come from the schools themselves or are based on reputation rather than anything that happens in the school IMO.

[Uncle Che]

I don't know of anyone that signed a 12 month contract having any money at all deducted or withheld in the three years I've been there.

They used to have some 11 month contracts in other depts, but you would have knowingly signed an 11 month one.

Thanks for clearing the air on that most important point, it seemed like Qwerty was implying that teachers did not have a right to holiday pay and bonuses if they refused to sign onto  new contract.

I will say that the charges leveled against BCC in this thread are no different than the charges levelled against more than half of similiar programs in Thailand.