Topic: Sarasas Schools- All campuses

[samvimes]

The basic teaching method [sic] is to give the teacher and book and then tell him to go teach. Sometimes there is no book.

The upper grades, in which I taught, have had no person checking exams and have no one who knows what is going on in the classroom. Yes, they have Thai teachers to see that the farang is dressed properly and that his/her students are in the classroom, but this is all they know. Unfortunately, it's all they care about, as well, except that you get the paper work in on time. The salary at the school is acceptable. The campus is beautiful. However, there is no structural planning at all. Finally, what seems appealing, at first, the amount of freedom in the classroom, starts to weigh the teacher down, especially in the subject of English. One grade knows nary a sentence of what the other grades are teaching. Office seating is completely random and teachers are so busy they only have time to talk to each other at lunch. Of course, the turnover is so quick, that you rarely know even a quarter of the other teachers teaching your same subject.

Finally, beware of the paper work required for you to be at the school. They are slow getting you a copy of your contract. They are slow getting work permits (and it is much safer not to get one). When it comes to leaving, don't think you can just cancel you work permit and then go find another job. You can't. They must give you five or six documents to take with you. Many teachers must return again and again to get the documents they need to teach at a new school. Finding someone in the office after 9am in the morning can be a real task. I was completely and totally disappointed with the school. The students are mostly pleasant. The job just became an uncoordinated drudge.

[El Tel]

The basic teaching method [sic] is to give the teacher and book and then tell him to go teach.

So, what's the problem.
Any teacher worth his salt could find numerous ways to supplement the book.
You're a qualified teacher, work it out.

So the Admin are uncoordinated and slow with paperwork (TIT! ) and the teachers don't have time to talk to eachother. OMG!

If that's all you have to worry about then I think you've got off lightly.

My schedule conflicts with the only hot-looking Chinese-Thai teacher at my school so I don't have time to chat her up. I'm REALLY pissed now!

You say that the campus is beautiful, the money's okay and the students are pleasant.

Consider yourself lucky!

[Notanewbie]

I have worked at a number of places in Thailand, not all in the ESL teaching field, but I have done enough of it between jobs and to supplement other income to know more than a little about the industry. Some places are better than others, for sure. I once got caught between having some real work and took a job at one of the Sarasas schools (From what I have heard from other, they are all pretty much alike as far as treating teachers goes). Now, I don?t claim to be blameless in all of my troubles, I really wasn?t cut out for or interested in teaching kids, I thought I was only going to be there for a few months but it turned out I was there quite a bit longer than expected. Anyway, the job I had been promised didn?t materialize and by the time I found another job, considerable time had gone by. I had pretty much hated everyday working there, but again I was partially to blame for taking a job I know I didn?t fit in, but the school didn?t make things easy either. Everyone told me to do a flyer as the school never paid the last month?s pay for teachers leaving. I thought, that is unprofessional, and I would give notice and also talk to the British lackey working for the owners as head master or whatever the term was to get his promise that I would get all the pay that was due me. He promised me, and I left after the end of the school year so that none of the little kiddies would be put to any trouble, but guess what, the school tried to screw me. I did finally get nearly all my pay, but I had to act like a complete jerk and play dirty to get it. If you decide to work at any of the Sarasas schools, watch out.

[hero]

He promised me, and I left after the end of the school year so that none of the little kiddies would be put to any trouble, but guess what, the school tried to screw me. I did finally get nearly all my pay, but I had to act like a complete jerk and play dirty to get it. If you decide to work at any of the Sarasas schools, watch out.

I think this is the thing that annoys most of us.  From my own point of view, I can put up with unprofessional colleagues and managers, slightly dodgy conditions, ethics I don't agree with - but when they try and screw you for money when you try to leave in a professional manner is just plain wrong.  Everybody who considers taking a job at any school should be confident that the contract will be honoured and all payments will be made.

[Uncle Che]

Until schools start treating teachers professionally and until cases like these are a rare occurence, teachers will be justified to leave before the end of their contract or string along the school until they get all the money due them. I think every teacher should pause and think long and hard how important their final month salary and any bonuses are worth to them before giving notice. If it isn't that important, then go ahead and give notice. If it is, then maybe keep your leaving to yourself because no matter how good you think the school is, there is a legitimate chance that they will try to dick you over.

 

[Notanewbie]

UC,

I wouldn't tar all schools with the same brush. I had some minor incidents at other schools, but nothing worth making a public complaint over. There are always two sides to every story. The only school I have ever worked at in Thailand that tried to out and out screw me was this one Sarasas school. Overall, most schools I have worked with here have been more professional than the average ESL teachers working at the schools. Maybe the Sarasas schools no longer use this policy, but with over 100 foreign teachers and a 70 or 80% turnover rate per year, one can see the financial benefits of withholding the last months pay.

Cheers

[Uncle Che]

I agree, not all schools are the same and some are very professional, unfortunately, there are still enough of the bad schools to make teachers pause and think twice before they let the school know they are leaving. This is why we run this list, teachers can learn things recruiters and directors will not tell them. And hopefully as the list builds and grows, teachers can have a pretty good idea which schools might try to hurt them financially and which one will honor their contracts. When that happens, teachers will not have to tar all schools with the same brush.

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

I know of at least ten former Sarasas teachers, some of them friends of mine, who were deducted up to 20 000 for doing the professional thing and giving the specified notice before leaving.

This chain has a poor reputation among many of the teachers I know. 

[Mods-Rockers]

10 teachers mmm so why dont they get their shit into one sock and sue?

[hero]

The rumours I heard were something along the lines of  "You can't do anything because the owner of the Sarasas chain is very big in some very big circles!"

I didn't pay that much attention, but then I don't have any interest in Sarasas schools - except for wishing to "out" them as potentially Bangkok's most notoriously bad employers

It also is rumoured (although very possibly untrue) that they can get WPs as English teachers for non-native speakers - I thought this was impossible too   Maybe they are that well connected

But then I don't know anything - just rumours

[Mods-Rockers]

And those rumours have been started by the chinese owners, yes they have clout, they scared the admin of tsw 1 enough that he shut it down, but is that clout for real or just mouth and trousers.
personally i get the feeling that they would be more scared of going to court than anything else, too much dirty linen in public as it were, too many parents knowing the truth or at least the potential for parents to know the truth.
Remember they are chinese, they care only about the cash cow and would not risk that cow, we will never know until its tried, but my suspicion is that they would fold before it got to the courts and settle to keep it under wraps. Maybe they have already, you know the routine " we will pay you what we owe you plus a big bonus but you must keep quiet about it, so that we dont look bad"
Just a thought mind you.

[PETER THE GREAT]

HERO WROTE;

It also is rumoured (although very possibly untrue) that they can get WPs as English teachers for non-native speakers - I thought this was impossible too? ?Maybe they are that well connected

WELL, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT.

NUMEROUS NON NATIVE TEACHERS I KNOW? ARE OUTSTANDING TEACHERS.

THEY SPEAK ENGLISH VERY CLEARLY WHICH CANNOT BE SAID ABOUT MANY AMERICANS, OFCOURSE THE AUSSIES, BRITS, IRISH, WELSH, SCOTTISH? ETC. ETC. WHO SPEAK THEIR MOTHER LANGUAGE LIKE HAVING A SPEECH IMPEDIMENT. IN MANY CASES THEY CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND EACHOTHER.

BESIDES MOST OF THE 'NON NATIVES' HAVE AN OUTSTANDING GRAMMATICAL KNOWLEDGE BECAUSE THEY HAD TO STUDY THE LANGUAGE FOR YEARS IN STEAD OF LEARNING IT FROM
' MUM AND DAD'.
SPEAKING A LANGUAGE DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU ARE ALSO ABLE TO TEACH IT.
THE EXISTANCE OF (EG) FORMER BRITISH FACTORY WORKERS WITH KAUSAN ROAD DEGREES, TEACHER LICENSE AND WP PROVE THIS.

NOT HAVING THE HANDICAP OF ONLY MASTERING ONE LANGUAGE MOST NON NATIVES ARE MULTI LINGUAL,?



 

[hero]

No need to shout mate

I was not entering into the debate of whether Filipinos, Germans, Scandinavians etc. are good teachers or good ESL teachers - I was just pointing out that it seems to be impossible for most schools to get WPs for non-native speakers, whereas I have heard Sarasas can do it - by pulling a few strings.

I don't think this is the time or place to comment on the "native vs. non-native" debate, this is a "Teacher Power" board and we are all teachers here

Try not to jump to conclusions and be so confrontational - oh and mind the caps

[PETER THE GREAT]

DEAR HERO,

SO NOTED.

AFTER EIGHT YEARS OF TEACHING IN THAILAND I AM AWARE THAT NUMEROUS SCHOOLS ARE OBTAINING WPS FOR NATIVE AND NON NATIVE TEACHERS OF ENGLISH WITHOUT PULLING ANY STRINGS. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF PRODUCING THE CORRECT PAPER WORK.

THE 'CAPS' ARE PURELY USED DUE TO LAZINESS.......

BEST REGARDS
PETER

[Uncle Che]

Non-natives have no problem getting work permits in Thailand as teachers. No strings need to be pulled. In Bangkok it might be a different story.

This is a Pro-teacher site and we welcome native and non-native teachers. While this forum is run by native English speakers, the site is owned by a non-native English speaker.

So Peter, take a chill pill and relax on it all. ok?

              

[hero]

Non-natives have no problem getting work permits in Thailand as teachers.

Well they have in my school, but that could be any number of reasons for sure!

Okey dokey I stand corrected

The caps are bad etiquette dude (and annoying)

[Freddy Farang]

  I have worked at two of the Sarasas schools in BKK and have to say that my final pay with them was fine and notice was given on both ocassions. I worked with the son of the owner of the schools and the family is Thai and not Chinese. I found the Head teachers at both schools to be very nice and understanding. There were problems in other areas as with most schools; which I think were caused by Thai administration tying their hands but I did enjoy working there.? The non-native guys I worked with there did have WPs and they were very good teachers, the only sad thing was that the Filipinos were getting so much less than other non-native and native teachers.

  A quick note on the non-native/native side of things - as with anything there are good and bad in all.? I have to say though, that I could not understand some of the non-native colleagues I have worked with in the past; which is quite worrying when they are teaching the kids English. I have never experienced the same problem when communicating with native colleagues.

[Notanewbie]

FF

Good to hear things worked out for you. I have to admit my situation was from a number of years ago (how time flies in LOS) and it is possible that the school no longer uses the same policy. It would be nice to hear some others respond and see if indeed there has been a change for the good. All and all the pay at the Sarasas schools wasn?t that bad compared to some other places like some of the language schools. Anyway I hope my days of working in those kinds of places are behind me. Although I didn't really like working there, it was more about it being a poor fit for me than anything the school actually did, and I wouldn't have complained publicly except for the attempted screwing at the end. I read about all these difficulties in getting work permits, is it really such a problem, native or non-native speaker? I have never worked anywhere where it was a major issue as long as one had all the proper paperwork. Non-immigrant visa, completed application form and Uni transcripts always seemed to get the job done for me. One should take anything written on a forum like this with a pinch or two of salt and never accept, good or bad, a single person?s opinion. However, if there are a number of complaints, I would check out the position a little more carefully. There are always more than one side to every story, even mine?

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

Two teachers have lost their no sick day bonus (about 20 000) for being 5 minutes late back from lunch.

Year after year, just overflowing with Christian virtues, insn't it??

[Gonzo]

I have worked for two Sarasas campuses for a combination of 5 years. I have never heard of unfair practices with any teacher currently working or that has left the school in a professional manner. I do know of several teachers that had their last months salary adjusted and were angry about it. In all cases these were teachers that I would never have hired in the first place (if it were up to me) as they quickly showed themselves to be parochial minded arrogant twats with no inclination to make allowances for Asian face and they were in a constant head butting battle with the administration from day one. The deductions were not official school policy but revenge deductions for not being polite or respectful. They exercised clauses in the contracts about placement fees and work permit and license fees. A few of these leaving teachers were breaking their contract and the school was well within its rights to do so. Only two cases I can think of were revenge motivated and targeted individuals that had annoyed the management.

just overflowing with Christian virtues

I say 'som num na' and a perfect example of one disgruntled ex employee.

[hero]

parochial minded arrogant twats with no inclination to make allowances for Asian face

For the record, how do Sarasas school help their teachers to settle in to the new culture, for the newbies in Thailand this can be very difficult.  I trust you, with your experience, advised the new guys about Thai ways and helped them, using your obvious experience, to adjust.

The deductions were not official school policy but revenge deductions for not being polite or respectful.

For the record, are you defending this policy?

Only two cases I can think of were revenge motivated and targeted individuals that had annoyed the management.

Is this acceptable?

Forgive me if you think I'm beating an unfashionnnable drum here, but what about a bit of teacher unity.  If you consider yourself better adjusted and more employable, wouldn't your energies be better channelled helping others to do a better job?  Instead of that once again we find a fellow Westerner teacher defending ludicrous Thai management practices.

[Gonzo]

For the record, are you defending this policy?

Is this acceptable?

Most definitely not and no I am not defending the actions of the administrator who perpetrated these actions.

For the record, how do Sarasas school help their teachers to settle in to the new culture, for the newbies in Thailand this can be very difficult.  I trust you, with your experience, advised the new guys about Thai ways and helped them, using your obvious experience, to adjust.

Sarasas does very little to help newbies adjust but expects them to.
Yes I offered advice and counseling to those in distress but they were of the mindset that would not listen. Some peoples personal ethics are not malleable enough for business come schools like Sarasas. I work around, through and within their money machine to educate my students. That is my priority and ethics.

Instead of that once again we find a fellow Westerner teacher defending ludicrous Thai management practices.

Let me answer the questions before you pass judgment.

The administrator in question is well known from as early as the first TSW. She has a track record of this sort of behaiviour and in my opinion is not suited to the role of liaising between foreigners and Thais. Unfortunately she is well ingrained in the power hierarchy and they think the sun shines out of all her orifices. Outside of work hours I have no problems with her. Her heart is in the right place but her mind and management skills can't get out of first gear. There have been many good teachers that have left because of her.

[hero]

Let me answer the questions before you pass judgment.

Sorry!  Point taken - I didn't really mean that to sound the way it did I may have got carried away, but as you can probably tell it's something that riles me No hard feelings

[Gonzo]

If I had hard feelings I would have used this guy.

I'm cool.

[NamTok]

If I had hard feelings I would have used this guy.

I'm cool.

[NamTok]

   Sarasas Ektra school currently is posting for 20 new teachers. After that it will post for 20 more and then 20 more etc. Why? After several consecutive years of full time teaching at Ektra School, to include having been lead foreign teacher,? I can point out major problems at the school which account for the high annual turnover of foreign staff. In fact, Ektra always is looking for foreign staff, as some leave after one day, or one week, one month, one semester. This year Ektra needs in the neghborhood of 80 new foreign staff to reach its total need of approximately 130 foreign teachers. Imagine all of the eyebrows that would be raised if Ektra posted for 80 new teachers! Thus, 20, then 20, then 20....

   The principal problem is that the foreign teacher is always wrong while the students are always right. One needn't elaborate on this anomaly as to the effects on classroom management and the attempt to present lessons. Second, The school is in a compact space, which means there is noise pollution which is regularly unbearable to foreigners. The reaction of the school is "That's too bad for you. Just get used to it!" The band and chorus, for example, in an adjacent building can be heard in nearby buildings, as can the boom, boom, boom of the drum as scouts rehearse their marching immediately outside the secondary building. The PE area is centrally located on the grounds so, consequently, its noise permates buildings all day. Some foreign teachers wear swimmer's earplugs all day to mute all of this this constant, regular and maddening noise pollution.

   Also, most foreign teachers who provide proper departure notice are shorted money when they leave (in a rare exception, I wasn't). Further, at the beginning of each year each foreign teacher begins with a measly Baht 1,500 salary increment to take effect in the contract of the following year (the school has never ending optimism!). However, during the course of the year punative deductions are taken against the Baht 1,500? increment so that typically the foreign teacher ends up with an increase of perhaps Baht 500 (five hundred)

   Another major reason is that the secondary school corrdinator is a wild, arbitrary, whimsical man who is known to burst into a classroom, to boistrously direct the foreign teacher to sit down at the back of the classroom while declaring that he will show how to teach the subject to the class (this never happened to me, as he wouldn't have dared!) Secondary students refer to this coordinator, the person in charge of the secondary department of Ektra school, as the Buffalo. This is due to the fact that the human-animal resemblance is remarkably similar and, because of what students think of him personally and profesionally.? He is also know to have the foulest mouth in all of Thailand (I can't speak as to his native Australia, although he has a certai personality type--y'kow?!?.)

   Moroever, the school views foreign teachers as intruders into the society and culture of Thailand and has a long-standing, conscious and deliberate policy of reducing and humiliating foreign teachers to show students how dumb foreign teachers (farangs) are and how smart/clever the Thais running the school are. Indeed, one departing teacher during her one and only year commented, "I'm tired of being made to feel guilty," when of course there was nothing in reality for her or, typically, for any foreign teacher to feel "gulty" about. There is a problem but it begins and ends with? the negative attitude of the school toward the foreign teacher(s) (foreign devils).

  n short, the school knows it needs English from native speakers of English, but does everything it can to prevent the foreign teacher? from doing any more than teaching some English to students.

 FOREIGN TEACHER PUBLICLY CANED: Yes, so bold and aggressive is the Ektra school Thai directoral staff that one morning, during one of 5 morning assemblies each week, one foreign teacher was assaulted from behind , being caned on the back of the right calf by a Thai assistant director. The reason? The foreign teacher, one of many foreign teachers not reciting required public pledges, was singled out? for a public caning before all of the assembled students, Thai teachers and foreign teachers for non-recital of mandatory pledges. At each morning assembly foreign teachers have to recite two of ten weekly pledges, eg, "I will be loyal to your king and country;" "I will be a good teacher;" "I will obey the school's rules," and other like vacuuous platitudes, although Pledge No.1 "I will be loyal to your king and country" clearly is a violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (adopted by the UN General Assembly effective 1976).. The public caning of a foreign teacher at a public event, ie, a morning assembly is yet another indication of the deliberate, shameless and systemic low regard and abusive treatment Ektra school owners and their top operatives have toward foreign teachers.

FOREIGN TEACHER THREATENED: In the Prathom (primary) school a 2nd grade boy urinated in his pants while in class. As "punishment" the Thai teacher made the boy remove all lower body clothing and required the boy to stand genitals exposed before the whole of the class. When the foreign teacher in the class strenously and vociferously objected, he was swiftly and decisively removed from the classroom building to the director's office. The foreign teacher, a European, spoke of reporting the barbarous treatment of the child to the Ministry of Education. However, the foreign teacher emerged from the director's office pale and gaunt and said nothing for days. The foreign teacher later stated that he had been told to remain silent or suffer the (ultimate) consequence. Many foreign teachers believed that much more than the teacher's job was at stake as a result of his vehement objection to this so-described traditional and customary Thai practice, something one would expect with historical shame to read in a Dickens' novel. Yet, the Chinese-Thai ownership of the school saw the farang's strong reaction as a direct challenge and as a most serious threat to Thai history, customs and tradition.

Do beware these Ektra people......

[Gonzo]

You could have used me? Ektra school used (abused) me for 6 years. With all of your repeated and predictable apologies for Sarasas, how could you have used me? You sound like a regular riot of a guy....

I'm assuming that this was meant to be on this thread and not the thread on Ektra you have started?
Everyone is 'used' in some way. How much we allow ourselves to be used is up to each individual.
For instance, I have just learned that my campus will not be making any PA worksheets or exams this year. We will be forced to use the assessments created at the Bangbon campus. I asked if we would be given these documents at the beginning of the term so that we can plan our lessons accordingly, given that different teachers using the same topics and textbooks will concentrate on different vocabulary and grammar structures. No, we will get the exams one week before the students will sit the test. Not acceptable. I will be making and printing my own assessment items. The admin at Bangbon will never know as they don't check. The exams are multiple choice tests so if I use the same answer key they will never find out about that either. Do what the Thais do, nod and wai and say thank you, and then do what you need to do regardless.

[NamTok]

Why is gonzo cosistently apologizing for the indefensible? The only training Sarasas, especially Ektra, gives its foreign teachers is to throw them into the classroom, where they soon find out that the foreign teacher is always wrong and the students are always right. Think for a moment about what this does to classroom management, not to mention trying to present a lesson. Trying to present a lesson is like trying to talk peace in the middle of a battlefield.

[NamTok]

After having been 6 years at Ektra I know a few tricks of the trade myself. For example, take last year's Grade 10 exam on the same subject this year's Grade 10 is studying and rearrange the questons. It's never failed. You really needn't lecture me or others here on tricks of the trade, especially with all the slippery characters and activities that exist and ocurr in Thailand in general and at any Sarasas school (or just about any other school, bank, corporation, the government etc in Thailand) The adults learned their tricks doing cooperative testing in school, year in and year out, did they not?. Further, students at the international schools and bilingual schools already view their foreign teachers as their employees. Students have said so to me in reference to all "farang" teachers; many Thai teachers,  too. What kind of education system is that? It's certainly the opposite of our Western experience! AndI think this system is absurd, asinine and very much Old World.

[Gonzo]

Why is gonzo cosistently apologizing for the indefensible?

Because I still work there and have to reconcile the bad with the good to find an acceptable compromise.

.......................especially with all the slippery characters and activities that exist and ocurr in Thailand in general and at any Sarasas school (or just about any other school, bank, corporation, the government etc in Thailand) ....................................... .....................What kind of education system is that? It's certainly the opposite of our Western experience! AndI think this system is absurd, asinine and very much Old World.

As do I. You make the same points as me in this post.

The problem is Thailand, not each individual school or business. They are just the front lines not the commanders of the recalcitrant attitude that is barely out of the stone age.
I am annoyed by certain people in the administration that abuse their power and privilege. These people need an object lesson in justice and fair play. One day that will happen and their smiles will truly be forced.

The school to me is the students, not the admin.
The students ARE Thailand and its future, not the admin.
The students are innocent of this nepotism.

[NamTok]

    gonzo the students are the people who kept me at Ektra for 6 years. They are great and terrific people. Just two weeks ago, by their invitation, I flew from Satun province, where I am now, to attend a restaurant party of the graduating group of this year, a group I started teaching in Grade 8 (M2).

   I continue to have a powerful bond with the virtually all of the Sarasas Ektra secondary students to include several groups of graduated classes. So for six years I took the litttle but significant bit of good---the terriffic students---with the massive onslaught of the bad from the owners and their top Thai and foreign functionaries at Sarasas Ektra school (Please see my separate posting on Ektra school.).

   During my 5-day visit to Bangkok 2 weeks ago I met with so many grads and present students of Ektra. Why am I not longer at Sarasas Ektra school? The synergy of my personal popularity and exemplary classroom performance was my final downfall. So even teachers who stay "long'term" at Ektra become the target of jealous, envious and hateful coordinators which the students neither respect nor can interact with. During those six years I helped literaly a thousand students learn better to relate to "farangs" and to develop their English in speaking with a "farang" in the classroom and outside of the classroom. So, I would say we have common ground in the above respect.

   As to defending Sarasas in any other respect, we seem to diverge sharply, perhaps irreconcilably, but I may be overstating this latter situation. However, for as long as you are in the employ of Sarasas, we MUST take what you say with that knowledge and all that that implies.

[Gonzo]

Nam Tok
Please read my thread on Ajarn.com, it will give you a better idea of my current situation in Sarasas. I am one of those that tried and to a minimal degree did make a difference.

http://ajarnforum.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=12555

[NamTok]

I haven't any doubt you tried to make a difference. But, I must ask---certainly not out of cruelty, but from practicality and realism---did you in fact make a difference? Even a tiny bit of difference? With the Thai attitude you and I know and recognize from our respective experiences, do you think the Thais allowed a farang to make any difference at all? I'm referring of course to you in your administrative capacity at the particular school in a strongly linked chain of bilingual schools owned by a Chinese-Thai NOMINALLY Catholic family that is in fact Buddhist in spirit and heart and Thai through and through and, therefore, extremely sensitive to the protection and preservation of their (my words) decrepit Old World society, cutlutre and divilization.

   Did you read my posting about Sarasas Ektra school? The school virtually (if not literally) threatened the farang who objected to the school's gross maltreatment of the 2nd grade child who urinated in his pants in class, making him stand before the entire class with genitals exposed? What application does the UN Convention of the Rights of The Child have in this setting, situation and context, ie, when the owners of the school care not about international conventions and remain only obsessed with the continuation of their own primitive and, I'll say again, decrepit, society, culture and civilization? And, moreover, without hesitation or a second thought, threaten dire action against the farang who strenously objects to this punishment, which reads, as I've said, like a Dicken's novel?

[Gonzo]

...................................... during one of 5 morning assemblies each week, one foreign teacher was assaulted from behind , being caned on the back of the right calf by a Thai assistant director

That's a first; if they tried that on me the person would swiftly be eating their cane in front of the whole student body after suffering several broken limbs, employment be damned.

At each morning assembly foreign teachers have to recite two of ten weekly pledges, eg, "I will be loyal to your king and country;" "I will be a good teacher;" "I will obey the school's rules," and other like vacuuous platitudes, although Pledge No.1 "I will be loyal to your king and country"

This is also way beyond out of order. It does not happen at the Bangbon group of campuses although they do try to 'force' foreign teachers to participate in the quasi religious ceremonies. No one was ever punished for conscientiously objecting and not attending though. I'm an agnostic but have never participated in these rituals as I can't see the point of using Buddhist offerings to a statue of the Virgin Mary. Many of the Catholics were quite angry about these blasphemous ceremonies. One Muslim teacher told the admin that if he was forced to participate the statue would not long remain recognizable. He was excused.

Nam Tok, it sounds like Ektra is a far more draconian institute than some of the other Sarasas campuses. I have a good friend at Romklao campus and none of this crap goes on there either. I now understand your anger better. I have met two of the foreign heads from Ektra, one seemed OK but a bit scattered, the other carrot headed one definitely had a flag pole up his arse.

I hear you can buy LAW rockets on the black market in Thailand.

[NamTok]

Yes, gonzo, Sarasas Ektra is a draconian institution, school, which treats foreign teachers as if they were Thai peasants. There is a concious and deliberate Sarasas Ektra policy of belittling, reducing and humiliating foreign teachers, a policy which starts at the top of the organization.

   I once had one (of many) conversations with the director of Ektra (director=principal), a son of the Sarasas patriarch, during which I related to him that when I arrived in Thailand I had to pay a Baht 3,000 bribe to the particular customs oficer to move my crates of furniture and belongings to the front of the line, lest they remain in the rear of the building for months. The Sarasas director enthusiastically and with beaming pleasure and pride began to respond to me that "In Thailand we have a custom" at which time I broke his sentence by saying, "What you call custom we, where I come from (the US), call corruption." Well, that abruptly ended that little discussion, much to the displeasure of the director. I knew from that point that I could never be part of the Ektra school leadership, nor could I consort with the Ektra school leadership,?Thai or farang (foreign) in any way whatsoever. The attitude and values of the director so repulsed me that I knew immediately that I wanted nothing to do with the Old World and Third World decrepit values of the owners of Ektra or with their Thai or foreign operatives at the top of the food chain. In the name of Thai culture, society and civilizsation, Sarasas Ektra deliberately treats foreign teachers with contempt.

   The owners of the school and their Thai and foreign operatives enforce the decrepit, corrupt and reactionary aspects of Thai culture and society. And, yes, they believe that we in the US haven't any cultural festivals the way Thais have theirs----and in the way every culture of the world has their festivals and observances. These Thais are completely ignorant of the diversity of cultures in the US and of the many ethnic and wholistic national celebrations that in the US ocurr frequently and regularly throughout each year. The Chinese-Thai nominally Christian but in reality Buddhist and very Thai ownership of Ektra school truly believes Western foreigners, ie, farangs, to include W Europeans, are barren of culture, society and civilization. That's the level or ignorance and stupidity a foreign teacher has to suffer at Ektra school. (Sorry for the long monologue, but I have six years of the above to get off my chest, as it were.)

   Again I have to state, that the basic problem of Ektra school is that the foreign teacher is always wrong and the students are always right. This atitude and POLICY demolishes classroom management and makes the presentation of lessons the equivalent of a battlefield situation.

[NamTok]

Sorry, gonzo, but I haven't the slighest clue as to your referenceto LAW rockets in Thailand. If there's some way you  can communicate to me what your reference is,  I think somehow I'd really appreciate it....

[worried]

Which Sarasas are you referring to, Nam Tok? I am asking because I have applied for a position with Sarasas Don Muang a couple of weeks ago

[hero]

This particular thread is about Sarasas Ektra, however you should be aware that there is another thread on this forum that deals with other Sarasas schools http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/index.php?topic=130.0.

Although I have never heard anything in particular about the Don Muang school (maybe it's new), the reputation of this chain of schools is in the gutter with all teachers I know and very few discerning teachers ever have anything nice to say about a Sarasas school

There are even rumours that the Sarasas chain were involved in closing down a predecessor to this site (Thaischoolwatch) using threats because all of their schools were so heavily criticised.  I also know that my former boss would bin CVs of any teacher who had spent more than a semester at a Sarasas school as she was concerned that they probably wouldn't be very good (I'm not condoning this practice, I argued against it at the time, but it is evidence of how Thai managers view these schools too!).

[NamTok]

Which Sarasas are you referring to, Nam Tok? I am asking because I have applied for a position with Sarasas Don Muang a couple of weeks ago

   It matters little as to which Sarasas school I refer. They're all bad---extremely bad for foreign teachers----each in its own way. I refer especially to Sarasas Ektra, which undisputedly is the horrifically worst of the lot.

   I state again, the Sarasas policy toward foreign teachers is that the foreign teacher is always wrong and that the students are always right. This makes for nightmarish classroom management and extreme diffculty in presenting a lesson to the class. Half the class is attentive and participating with you, while half the class is roaring in conversation, loud laughter, being noisy in general, engaged in movement about the room; some students sit at the back of the room and play guitar and sing while the foreign teacher is straining to present the lesson to those students who are interested in participating in the lesson. It just gets to be too much so the foreign teacher leaves, sometimes with notice, often without notice.

   Beware Extra for sure. If anyone who has applied to a Sarasas school can get something else that can reasonably satisfy one's needs as an educator, I'd advise that one opt out of any Sarasas school in favor of the other opportunity---as quickly and as decisively as is possible..Ektra school does not support its faculty (which it always referes to as 'staff," as if we were pushing brooms) and consciously, by deliberate decision, grants the students freedom in the classroom to do as they please.

   Moreover, don't ever report a student for cheating on an exam (this actually is common to many schools in Thailand). YOU get blamed for ALLOWING the cheating to happen! The cheating students suffer a nominal response by the school, ie, a little, meaningless and ineffectual lecture---as it's intended to be---and returned to the exam sitting. Meanwhile, as is intended by the school, you can look like the helpess fool that the students know you are in trying to stop cheating (aka: cooperative testing). There just isn't any purpose or positive aspect at Ektra of the foreign teacher trying to stop "cooperative testing."? 

[NamTok]

This particular thread is about Sarasas Ektra, however you should be aware that there is another thread on this forum that deals with other Sarasas schools http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/index.php?topic=130.0.

Although I have never heard anything in particular about the Don Muang school (maybe it's new), the reputation of this chain of schools is in the gutter with all teachers I know and very few discerning teachers ever have anything nice to say about a Sarasas school

There are even rumours that the Sarasas chain were involved in closing down a predecessor to this site (Thaischoolwatch) using threats because all of their schools were so heavily criticised.? I also know that my former boss would bin CVs of any teacher who had spent more than a semester at a Sarasas school as she was concerned that they probably wouldn't be very good (I'm not condoning this practice, I argued against it at the time, but it is evidence of how Thai managers view these schools too!).
I am aware, thanks, hero. I post at both sites, as well as crosspost at the Ajarn Forum. I do appreciate your mention of the "Sarasas all" topic at this site. You always are very attentive and helpful. Thanks again.

[Gonzo]

Did I make a difference in the greater scheme of the Sarasas school empire, no.
Did I make a difference in the day to day operations of my campus, in the treatment of foreign teachers, in the academic curriculum and therefore in the education of the students, yes.
- Amended and rewrote the entire timetable, accepted and implemented.
- Began a remedial study program for the struggling students and raised the schools class average by 5-10% within one year.
- Reworked the woeful after school program into a unified syllabus that actually gained students throughout the year (instead of losing them until the program had to be cancelled in the third term) and made extra money for the foreign teachers.
- Harped on the admin until they understood the importance of dealing with teachers paperwork needs as quickly as possible. (Not a perfect success.)
- Gained concessions for the Mini Bilingual program Filipino teachers and mirrored many of the bilingual support programs for their use.
- Collected, organized and documented all progressive assessment items and exams into a reusable library database for the future.
- Implemented a report card system that tracked a students? progress across years instead of a single term.
- Established a reporting protocol system for problem students tiered into a disciplinary action program from the Thai admin that involved the principal and contacting the students? parents for repeat and extreme cases.
Of course most of these policies and programs did not return with my name on them but I did the work for my staff and for the students, not for power or self aggrandizement.
Most of the Thai admin at my school are good people. There is only one 'potential' power playing bad apple in the mix and so far she had been kept under control by her superiors. As you have read from Ajarn I now am no longer a HOE and therefore have lost most of the influence I once had in the admin. The reproducible projects I helped to create or initiated are now in the hands of the Thai admin. Throughout this year I will find out what will stay and what will blow. It has ceased to be my problem unless it impinges on my classes.

[SouthOfHeaven]

 FOREIGN TEACHER PUBLICLY CANED:

Definitelythe most outrageous story on this site so far.

[SouthOfHeaven]

[Everybody who considers taking a job at any school should be confident that the contract will be honoured and all payments will be made.

           In Thailand?? That'll be the day!

[NamTok]

 FOREIGN TEACHER PUBLICLY CANED:

Definitelythe most outrageous story on this site so far.

 
   Only at Ektra could an adult, a well educated, highly qualfied?and experienced teacher--- a certified educator in th US---be whipped with a switch by? a Thai assistant director (=asst. principal) in a public forum, ie, the daily morning assembly in the schoolyard, as if he were an errant Thai schoolboy.. There just isn't any respect at Ektra of farang (W foreign) teachers. Ektra does all that it can---ALL---to belittle, reduce and humiliate foreign teachers in Ektra's obsesive-compulsiveness to, as they see it, protect Thai traditions and cultoms in the precious name of? Thai society, cutlutre and civilization. Actually, can one think of a worse way to take such an approach?

    Who's trying to overthrow the ancient regime anyway? My efforts always were directed toward helping Thailand move more towards becoming more a part of the modern world, which the increasing Thai middle class wants very much to do. The best and most effective approach to responding to the inquisitive minds of the best Thai students at Ektra who seek out such information is on campus but outside of the classroom: conversation, discussion, disourse , using the Socratic method? which is where such discussion ocurrs a great deal, or did with me while I was there. No one around us knew what we were takling about. The many discusssions in the above respect? could have have been about ManU for all that others knew, especially the ever-suspicious and always probing senior Thai and foreign administrative staff. At Ektra, senior foreign staff say the word "teacher" in the same way you or I in our respective countries would spit out the term "child molsester." It's just that bad at Ektra for foreign staff. According to my sources at Ektra---students, foreign teachers, graduates---It appears that some or much of the same is being planned at the new facility, Sarasas Don Muang. Is the Ektra facility near Muang, Thai and foreign lackies alike, to be Ektra II? From my Ektra sources, I fear so....

[NamTok]

  In my case at Ektra, all financial arrangements were honored from the time I presented my letter terminating our contract until the time I left tho, there were some hairy moments, especially when I called the assitant dirctor/academic, who also is head of the mathayom (secondary) depatment, a  Buffalo for his constant stupidity and for his continuous, wholely, unjustified viscious and, by plan and design, malevolent attacks against me throught my 6th year (not to mention his remarkable physical resemblance to a Thai buffalo). Students accepted my term and continue today to use the word Buffalo in refering to him.

   However, during my six years there, many departing teachers who had the pofessionalsm and honor to provide proper notice were shorted money when they left. Really, the owners of the school take the attitude tnat, when a short-term teacher is leaving, why should he/she leave with "our" money? In my instance, Ektra gave me some respect of my six years of faithrul service to the school, in particular, its students.

  That's not the whole of the story, however. Because I denegrated the assistant director/academic who also is in charge of the Mathayom (secondary department), Ektra took the unprecedented step  to send a letter to Immigration saying I am a bad person and that The Governent of Thailand needed to deport me immediately. This account also speaks to some posters at this site who have referred to the "power' of Sarasas schools. Well, there weren't any legal, techncal or otherwiise legitimate grounds on which Ektra could seek to deport me. There was only the insane, jealous, and irrational hate of me by The Buffalo, who has gone insane in his jealousy and envy of my synergy of popularity among students and innovate classroom techniques and approaches in an otherwise consistently impossible classroom management situation for all of the foreign teachers (and certain Thai teachers).

   I relocated to Satun province, made a connection with a Thai family (Buddhists in this 90% Muslim province, where I am welcome and popular to both religions)  which owns 4 schools and is active in the provincial government and is well-known in Bangkok, where the family owns more than 50 million Baht of land. The family told Immigration to blow off the letter, which Immigration did do. Immigration isssued me a new one-year Work Visa, my 6th consecutive one-year Work Visa and a one-year Work Permit. Ektra, however, had not been cooperating with the local family of school-owners until I sent a general email to a hundred Ektra studets and grads, who informed their silblings and hundreds of other students at  Ektra about the attempted deportation problem. The students immediately and vociferously raised the question with Ektra.

   Ektra, in a panic, suddently reversed itself and cooperated with the local school owners here in providing all necessary information and documentation to factilite the issuing to me of a new Work Visa and Work Permit. That's how weak Ektra's family is in the face of powerful opposition and, moreover, in the face of adversarial attitudes and behaviiours of the students. In short, Ektra caved, in the face of a powerful provicial family well connected in the province and in Bangkok, and against objections by the students of Ektra to Ektra's malevolent but pathetically ineffective and failed plan---initiated by the Buffalo---and effort to have me deported immediately.

   The latter account speaks to several matters. Ektra is mean. Ektra will try to exercise what power it has, but has found its powers are limited. Ektra has created, by its own design, a school at which it alows students to run the place, so, when students en mass raised hell about the Ekra plan and purpose to seek to have me deported immediately, students did their major part in stopping Ektra cold from trying to deport me. Yes, Ektra has some power. But it is limited. Most signifiantly, in Ektra's instance of trying to deport me, it encountered and was stopped by the very free-minded and independent-minded students it, in this instance, inadvertently, has created, students who for a change used their learned independence (wildness in the classroom) to accomplish a goal they chose to pursue, ie, stop the school---led by the Buffalo---from having me deported.

   Further, in the face of another source of power, ie, the local family here in Satun that owns four schools and is heavily involved in the provincial government and has heavyweight contacts in Bangkok, Ektra backed off. Against the weak, the defenseless, the vulnerable, Sarasas moves swiftly, powerfully, forcefully and mercilessly. However, when confronted with power and strength, Sarasas whithers and retreats. We all have had experiences with bullies. In primary (elementary) school in the US there was the inevitable bully against whom I one time I stood up to, he and I alone; he walked off, as did Sarasas in this confrontation against another power.

   So, enuff for now, as  his is a long posting. There is more to say, but it will have to wait another day or two.
  I reiterate, beware of Ektra and the newly organized, Ektra II near Don Muang. The family that owns Ektra---and now 16 schools constructed over the past 40 years---are empire builders. I simply conclude this posting by stating the obvious----stay away from Sarasas and ESPECIALLY Ektra and the new school near the airport. At Sarasas, the foreign teacher is always wrong and the students are always right. Do you need to know any more than this fact?!?

[NamTok]

[Everybody who considers taking a job at any school should be confident that the contract will be honoured and all payments will be made.

 ? ? ? ? ? In Thailand?? That'll be the day!

Yea, at Ektra school only after you agree to teach the hell of summer school for measly bucks could you be considered for release from your 2-year contract, which all new teachers are required to sign. The requirement by Ektra that new teachers sign a 2-year contract gives Ektra leverage over those many foreign teachers who, by the end of the first semester---or by the end of June---- know they want to leave at the end of the school year, if not sooner. An agreement can be reached to do that, but the teacher has to suffer through teaching summer school, which is essetially the same as bird-watching (no offense intended to bird-watchers).

[AngloSexin]

When one is considering where to work in Thailand, there are several things that need to be taken into consideration. I am currently working at Ektra School and have observed some of the comments made about the school on this mailing list. It's true that the management lack a certain amount of finesse. It could be argued that management choices are made more by accessing the 'managability' of the individual chosen and less on the ability of the individual in question but to say that would ignore the fact that the Scottish administrator in the primary school has fine organisational ability though sometimes lacks interpersonal skills, the Austrailian overall administrator is highly organized and generally very hard working... I mean is it really an argument to say that he's more concerned with the wishes of his boss than the workers .... he wouldn't be in admin at that school if the case were otherwise.... the principal of the secondary campus obviously has passed his finer years by quaffing alcohol but even he has the positive quality (if accidental) of getting out of the way so that real education can happen. The real problems that developed with this school (and after all corruption and neopotism are not problems with this school, they are generally Thai attitudes) arose from a personal incident between two of the staff members there.
One of the school administrators and one of the teachers there ended up in a face-off when one teacher didn't receive the position (or attention) he thought he deserved. This individual was generally aloof, critical of others, ill-tempered and overbearing. At one point, he decided to write his 'personal ideas' all over the book of an Irish colleague at work because he felt it was his need to 'educate him', at another point he snapped rudely at one of the Austrailian co-workers because he felt she was his inferior in some way... the list of his behaviours is exhaustive. This same individual was said to be spending 'extra time' with his students at the weekend and the culmination of his behaviours and his inability to keep his private disputes private finally led to his dismissal. I may have some issues with the management of the school and certainly there is room for improvement at the ektra campus but the removal of this individual from the school was a fairly happy event for all.
If I was asked to discuss any problems I witness while working at Sarasas Ektra school, I would have to say that the 'absentee landlord' attitude of the Director makes life very difficult for the workers, since you are ultimately following his directives (through with occasional filtering by the Aussie admin) his total absence and seeming apathy towards the school gives one the impression of a trust-fund kid who accidently got the family business instead of just the family gold. I have been in Thailand long enough not to single out ektra in particular, the problems there manifest themselves in every school, though I couldn't honestly recommend it. During the reformation of the church, after all, one wouldn't point at a single case of abuse, instead one would focus on the abuse itself, in the hope of changing it in policy as opposed to in some single location.
It is worthwhile knowing that it is not a laid back place to work, however, by policy you cannot leave the school during a set period of hours which might be made more bearable if the food at the school was slightly more presentable. There is a certain inflexibility to school policy, though postings about money being removed from people, I would take with a grain of salt, contract-breakers did get penalized in ways, and others did have to wait longer than is polite to receive their due.... but then as Thailand goes... how weird is this? There is a strange irony to complaining about these things in the workplace here when we witness the utter corruption of the government here, the deep intrustion of aristocratic thinking into the people (contrasted with their national name 'Thai' 'free' - though the same b#$lshit obtains in America) and yet on the other hand are happy to reap the benefits of that corruption into our mp3 players, notebook computers, dvd players and copies of books. Anyway without boring you with my personal philosophy.
Ektra
Pros 1.) They are excellent at getting your paperwork done and assisting you with it.
2.) They provide good apartments for their staff.
3.) They provide leave when necessary (one of our staff members got leave twice in one year.
4.) They do provide certain bonuses ( flight, shipping, etc.. if you stay on two years.)

Cons
1.) There is a certain neopotism to how admin positions are filled (one feels that many were based on personal relations.)
2.) One works with a constant feeling of being watched or observed in ways that aren't normal for teachers (class observations are fine, outside of class observations create resentments).
3.) Staff of the secondary campus at times complain of incompetent management.
4.) One is constantly told of a 'Thai culture' that is really the invention of a small commitee of largely Thai-ignorant people or peopling imposing their perspective of what Thai-culture is onto your otherwise good day.

So, there are my impressions of the school, it's great that this site exists but look around, see what's out there and fine what works for you, bearing in mind that it's always a compromise and 'you're not in Kansas anymore'

[hero]

Do you have any comments about the more serious complaints raised against the school:  The public physical abuse of a member of staff?

Maybe he deserved it for having pirated movies in his DVD player

[AngloSexin]

I did hear that story though I didn't witness it myself. The school does do some weird stuff in the name of it's vision of 'Thai culture' but you generally recognize this as horses#$t fairly quickly and walk away. Had I been witness to this event myself then I would have been horrified.... however this was something I heard from some fairly unreliable sources. There is one ex-employee in particular who is quick to grasp the stories of others and turn them to his personal ends, essentially what was already a hard job was made harder by his inability to either leave a situation he was unhappy in or confront the situation correctly by ignoring what didn't seem correct to him. The end result was a battle between two rather pathetic egos that resulted in misery for all the members of staff caught in between them..... anybody who complains about a place over a long period of time and then doesn't leave it... seems to me to be of rather dubious sanity or rather hard to believe. I'm not going to praise the Sarasas schools but I have to recognize that I'm getting something I want and when I no longer get that I will leave... so it would be rather hypocritical of me to stay at the school and complain about it.... but as I said... I wouldn't recommend it particularly to others and one can certainly get better things here in Thailand but you must agree that you can also go to other schools here and get worse. I mean who hasn't been in the 'my boss is a muppet-master' position before?

[hero]

I wouldn't recommend it particularly to others and one can certainly get better things here in Thailand

I think that message is pretty loud and clear on this thread

[NamTok]

Anglo-Sexin, Remarkable posting by you, young lad. As you readily state that you are a current employee of Ektra, you either are brave or a suicidal fool as the Ektra contract specifically states that active empoyees are prohibited in the absolute from discussing Ektra school outside of the walls of Ektra school. Further, given that, based on your writing, I recognize you by name and vividly recal your face, as well as recall numerous interactions with you on campus, I would be certain in the absolute that the hierarchy of Ektra who might read this thread would readily recognize you also, not to mention immediately and accurately. Which raises the question as to whether you might be responding to my creation of this thread in the behalf of Ektra, and thus be afforded prividged protection against the specific provisions of the contract. From having  known you a Ektra and based on our interaction, I am 99% certain that you are writing to this thread of your own initiative, independence and on the basis of your willing and voluntary choice, ie, unconnected to Ektra. (But, holy hell, wait until they find your post to this site and your discussion of Ektra on a global BASIS. You can always delete now, immediately, youknow, and save your a_s/)

Yes, well, the fact is that you entered Ektra during the '04-05 school year while it was in progress. That was my sixth and final year at Ektra. You were a successor teacher to yet another foreign  teacher who had bolted, ie, quit. You, young laddy,  walked into the midst and middle of a stuation of which you knew nothing. From that point to the conclusion of the school year, in March, '05, you observed, heard, caught, bits and pieces of the situation the secondary school was experiencing at the time. That you, from your entry as a replacement/successor teacher to the conclusion of this '05 - '06 school  year acquired such knowledge and wisdom as you express in your post is---well, remarkable. Your osting reflects your fragmented knowledge of Ektra school to this date.

1) As to your statement concerning the foreign staff member who was caned, in which you stated, ""There is one ex-employee [could that me?] in particular who is quick to grasp the stories of others and run them to his personal ends." Young laddy, I was the foreign teacher who was caned during morning assembly, a grotesque incident that ocurred the school year before you joined the Ektra teaching "staff" as a replacemment teacher. How predisposed and quick are you, young laddy,  to accept the false word of  your self-described "unreliable sources' who now desperately seek to cast doubt on the fact of the caning, which was wittnessed by participatants of the secondary moring assembly. Given so many witnesses, that's a hard fact to deny.

2) You don't know---no one knew---that , In April '04,  before I would agree to sign a new contract with Ektra school for the '04 - '05 school year, I demanded of the Director of Sarasas Ektra school, that the Thai assistant director who snuck up behind me during morning assembly to cane me on the right back (calf) of my leg, apologize to me. She did. The apology took place very privately, after school and after nearly all students had left the secondary campus, in the office of the two Thai assistant directors of the secondary school, the office adjacent to the gate to Soi 26, which as you know leads a short distance to Thannon Sathupradit.. Three persons were present on the occasion of the appology to me: The Thai assistant director who did the caning and who made the apology (I listened to her apologize three (3) times before I accepted it; myself, and the Australian overall director of the foreign staff, as you describe him in your post.Two other persons knew in advance of the apology but were absent: the director, and the then coordinator, now principal, of the secondary school (whose idea the caning  was, in cahoots with his partner, the particular Thai assistant director----this of course you knew!/ Laddy boy, you need complete facts, not fragments on which to base your incomplete, scattered and discombobulated conclusions. Almost all of the conclusions stated in your post are at best dubious or, most typically, grossly misinformed and wrong

3) You engage in character assassination on he basis of nothing. Where is your young and percolating brain?  "The same individual [could that perchance be me in this, too?] WAS SAID (by whom?) to be spending his extra time (is there a pun intended there, Laddy  Boy?!?) with his students at the weekend." There is a one-word answer to the misrepresentation you make in that irresponsible statement:: False. I should like to add two additional words or terms: "malicious" and "character assassination." to which you are a ready and willng participant. Where is your brain, Laddy Boy?!? Further, you know there aren't any secrets at Ektra school (or in Thailand, for that matter). A teacher and a student(s) having sex would be known  throughout all of Ektra school within 48 hours at the most---and through half of Bangkok besides. In my six years at Ektra (or anywhere, anypace, anytime), I never had sex with a student. To even suggest so means you are swallowing smoke fed to your young susceptible mind by more clever and devious characters in the Ektra foreign hierarchy. Surely, for this failure and shortcoming in this respect,  shame and disgrace goes uon on you and your family name, which is appropriate in this vile and malicious matter that you so readily accept and absorb. The people who present this lie do so knwingly, willingly, deliberately, malicously and malevolently. Do you make yourself a part of that, based on your discombobulated susceptibiity to Ektra rumors, frangments, concoctions and mean-spiritedness. Are you going to allow yourself to become a part of that? Do you wish to become a part of tha? Shame on you, young laddy.....shame on you....

4) I "was dismissed." Laddy Boy, the figments of your imagination and/or your gullibility to whatever the hierarchy of Ektra feeds you have already dullened your mind or have completely contorted reality. The fact is, as required by the contract with Ektra and myself,  on November 26, 2004 I submitted a letter terminating the contract between Ektra and myself. As the contract requires two months notice, I notified Ektra that, if it were mutally agreeable, the effective date of my termination of the contract would be Monday, January 31, 2005 (at 16:00 'clock), to which Ektra acceeded. Tht was it, Laddy Boy. By 5pm on Monday, Janurary 31, 2005 I was gone from Ektra campus and have yet to return, or ever to return. What's this I "was dismissed? Get real!

I could go on. But the fact remains that you were a replacementsuccessor teacher to another Ektra teacher who departed during the progressof the school year. You walked into a situation of which you knew only fragments. You have spent the past full school year listeningto reumor, innuendo and unthruths and you think and believe you know the facts and reality of the events of the year previous to your mid-year arrivat to Ektra.  Laddy Boy, your major strength is your youth, enthusiasm and a certain intelligence. Your major weakness is that, in your overblown opinion of yourself, you are certain you have all the information you need to know, all of the facts,---fully and completely---and that you  can make a definitive post at this site about Ektra school, myself and my protagonist at Ektra school.
   

[hero]

7. As soon as a moderator feels that a thread has served its purpose, meaning a reasonable person can make a judgment on the school or issue, the thread will be locked.

For that reason, this thread will be locked.  Admin may reopen it, that's up to him I see a slanging match on the horizon and I feel that there is some very useful information on this thread as it stands

[admin]

I agree keep it locked, if anyone else has any questions about the school, check out this site:

http://www.ektra.ac.th/bilingualschools/information.htm

Newcomers may get a warm and fuzzy feeling from it, long time teachers may find it slightly disturbing.

[missthelos]

I know of at least ten former Sarasas teachers, some of them friends of mine, who were deducted up to 20 000 for doing the professional thing and giving the specified notice before leaving.

This chain has a poor reputation among many of the teachers I know.?

My brother worked there, Ektra school - twice!  First time, gave 2 months notice, left at the October break - not mid-semester or some other inconvenient time - final pay package short about 25k.  However, since he gave notice, he was able to return there.  Second time 'round - well, once bitten - he gave no notice, collected his full pay pack, and never returned.

[NamTok]

At the Sarasas Ektra school thread, which now is wisely locked but still can be accessed and read, I pointed out that a foreign teacher objected to the mistreatment of a Grade-2 boy who urinated in his pants during a class. The Thai teacher made the boy stand before the whole class, genitals exposed. I reported in the Ektra thread that, when the foreign teacher in the class strenuously objected, to include saying he would report the child abuse to the Ministry of Education, he was removed to the director's office. I've since learned that that evening the police appeared at the apartment of the foreign teacher, a European, and took him to the local police station for a grilling and threats. Further, at the police station waiting for the foreign teacher's arrival at the hands of police, was the same Ektra school Thai woman assistant director who caned me in the schoolyard during a morning assembly for, as lead foreign teacher of Mathayom (secondary), not reciting Ektra school's required pledges foreign teachers must recite at each morning assembly (eg, "I will be loyal to your king and country"). The very same Thai woman assistant director of Ektra school was at the center of each shameful and despicable offense against a foreign teacher (shameless to the Ektra hierarchy!). As to the European dragged (figuretively) from his apartment the evening of the same day of the incident of child abuse, he was released from the police station to return to his apartment, but only after a couple of hours of sitting at a police station and being grilled, as if he were a criminal or a criminal suspect. All of this ocurred in the presence of the same, particular Thai woman assistant director of Sarasas Ektra school. The atitude of Ektra school and Sarasas schools in general toward foreign teachers is one of contempt, disrespect, dislike and overt hostility----in the extreme. My fellow foreign teachers, Sarasas Ektra school is just an incredulous place! Believe me, you don't want to be anywhere near the place.Take fair warning also about Sarasas "all" schools.

[airpuka]

I cant believe how damn raceist thai people can be sometimes, anyone that works at sarasas know's that the accomodation they offer at the bangbon campus is huge in comparrison to the ones they offer you at its other schools, im a farang teacher living at one of the smaller rooms and its pretty small but  ok for me because im single . But my  2 phillipino friends(which are married with 2 kids)  got transfered from bangbon to work at another campus,and were told that they have to move out of their huge bangbon room into the other building so that the farang  teachers can have the nicer rooms, Now thats bull shit to me, i cant understand why they cant take in to consideration that they have 2 kids and just let them stay, or maybe make a policy that people with familys get the bigger rooms?

what do you think?

[airpuka]

with all of these horror stories about sarasas was it ever considered for the hall of shame?

[Uncle Che]

Filipino ro not filipino, if someone has a family, they should get a bigger room. Come on, if both the parents are teaching at the school, they should get a double sized room, right? It looks like the Sarasas schools are just begging to go into Hall of Shame. The only problem is decding which campus deserves to be inducted first.

[hero]

Sounds terrible.

However, I don't quite understand.  Surely if they were moving to work at another campus they would normally expect to move accomodations, or is this not necessarily the case?

Were they transferred with or without their consent?  Are there other issues involved?

Clearly you feel very strongly about this!  What reasons do the admin (or relevant authority) give?

[hero]

Surely only a matter of time

[airpuka]

They gave a couple reasons  1. some bull crap about how the mini van that takes them to school and home everyday costs to much money. But they got transfered schools with out their consent 2 that the farang were complaining about accomodation being to small at the other  campus so they were just going to screw over the phillipinos ,but one of the admin people basically told me in private that one of the higher ups had an argument with some phillipinos and because she has the power to she is going to take it out on the whole race by kicking them all out to the curb. The point i also want to stress here is that if a farang teacher wants to live off campus he/she gets an extra 3000 baht but  if a phillipino wants to live off campus they are not allowed this allowance they ethier stay in provided housing or pay their own accomodation out of their very small wage 10-12 grand a month.

[El Tel]

Take fair warning also about Sarasas "all" schools. ? ? ?

Nam Tok, just curious but how many other schools in the Sarasas chain have you worked for?

[NamTok]

As you read the Sarasas schools posted to these threads at this site, you should know I worked full time for six years at one Sarasas school, Ektra. I had been lead foreign teacher and senior froeign teacher of Mathayom (secondary).

Let me relate an anecdote to you. While working at Ektra I met In my apartment building a Brit guy, looked about late 20's, maybe 30. The building I lived in was a stone's throw from a grouping of three Sarasas schools. Many foreign teachers at those schools lived in the same condo/apartment buildings, which themselves are a grouping of three. In fact, I was one of three Sarsas teachers who lived on the same floor of one of the apartment buildings. The Brit, however, related to me that he was teaching at a Sarasas school across the (Chao Praya) river, commuting a long and tiresome distance each school day..

The Brit later related to me that the school where he was teaching across the river decided to give him the choice of working at one of the three Sarasas schools grouped near the apartment residences. Again later, the Brit related to me that he'd asked as many Sarasas teachers as he could about the three Sarasas schools grouped near the apartment buildings, Sarasas Ektra, Sarasas Pittaya, Sarasas Pattana.

The Brit said every Sarasas teacher he'd spoken to had said to him, in absolute and energetic terms, NOT to go to Ektra. The Brit said to me that each and every Sarasas teacher he'd spoken to (not including myself, as I'd never said anything to him about it) practically commanded him NEVER go to Ektra, to chose one of the other two schools. So he chose Pittaya. The Brit shrugged to me that the choice of Pittaya "was the lesser of two evils" based on what he'd heard of those two schools besides Ektra. .He also left Sarasas Pittaya and the Sarasas system at the conclusion of the school year. Every time I saw the guy, coming and going in the apartment building, he always looked down in the dumps, so to speak.

During my six years of living in apartment buildings in which many other Sarasas teachers lived, I heard an immense amount pertaining to Sarasas schools. I also have my own knowledge of Sarasas and the Sarasas "system" from my six years experience in the Sarasas system.

Sorry for the long response, but those who know me know that I can write pages and pages when it comes to Ektra in particular, and of Sarasas schools in general. All the same, I hope this helps to answer your quick little question, posed, as you say, out of curiousity.

[El Tel]

I hear what you're saying about Ektra but my point being is that I don't think 'all' Sarasas schools should be tarred with the same brush.

Could Extra be an extreme one off?

Some Sarasas schools have received no complaints on this or any other forum.

And any western teacher who allows himself to be caned at assembly deserves all he gets for being a lilly-livered chickenshit.
Any self-resecting adult would have taken the cane away and beaten the offender senseless.
Shocking!

[airpuka]

And even thought sarasas is extremely anal when it comes to stuff  like the way you grade the students books and dress code lets not forget the HUGE benifit of paid holiday, around 3 and a half months paid a year

[eng upon asia]

About this caning incident of a foreign teacher during the morning assembly.
Could someone let me know the gender and the initials of the name of the Thai teacher involved?
I happen to be close to a few parents whose children are studying at Ektra who are interested in finding out about what all is going on in the school behind their backs .

[Mods-Rockers]

If the above information is going to be passedm on to eng upon asia then do it by PM and not in open forum.

[NamTok]

Mods-Rocker,  I will use PM for sure, no problem, in the ideitifican of persons at Sarasas Ektra by name. I'll not now or in any future postings be identifying Sarasas all or Sarasas Ektra ovrelords and other personnel by name or initials

However, what of the matter of El Tel in Repyl #40 at the "Sarasas all" thread using words that are intended to be offensive, degrading and insulting? El Tel could make me feel I'm back at Ektra, rather than at a teacher freindly site, teflWatch..

Thanks for your advice and attention.

[NamTok]

[Sir, you can respond to challenging, provocative and instulting situations in your individual way and manner. I do the same, in my way and manner.Mutual rspect is the key here. Caling me words fails the standards of  the quaility of discourse on this thread at this site. I'd hope you'd begin as I suggest, ie, to exercise better restraint and judgement.

[NamTok]

airputka, lots of anal stuff, yes.

Total of 3 months paid vactions---true. However, there aren't any psychiatirc professionals or any psychiatric facilities available in the BUPA (another of the few positives about Sarasas Ektra) to allow foreign teachers to recover durng a part or all of those needed paid holidays. This is a necessity. (Suggest you See: "Sour Gripes" at scroll at botom of each page.)

[MrQ]

After recieving a complaint about this thread and reading it. I think it is best locked for a couple of days so that people can cool down a bit.

Continue PMing each other as you please.

Mr Q

[NamTok]

   El Tel, you seem to follow Sarasas schools around on these threads, always defending them.? 

   What, may I ask, is your experience with Sarasas schools, teachers, students, curiculum, school calandar, school suport personnel, resources available to teachers, the paperwork that always is due on time, the librairies, the turnover rate of teachers at Sarasas schools, the food, the teaching materials, the support the school executive provides to the foreign stafff, the relationship between teachers foreign and Thai, staffs, respecitively, English Camps, weekend duties and assignments, after school assignments and requiements of foreign teachers, etc?

   If you so assuduiously follow Sarasas schools thru these threads, you must know a great deal about them.....Enlighten us, please....Thank you.

[Bangkok Phil]

<<<El Tel, you seem to follow Sarasas schools around on these threads, always defending them>>>

Perhaps he's just loyal. 
If you read the autobiographies of Richard Branson and Donald Trump, they both say that loyalty is the most desirable characteristic in an employee.   

[hero]

Nam Tok I believe I am correct in asserting that you received a public "caning" at the hands of Sarasas admin and stayed there reasonably long after, I presume at that time you were loyal to the cause!  Now you have left the employment of Sarasas schools you are entitled to have your complaints, which hugely outnumber on this forum any defence that El Tel is offering.  Maybe El Tel works for Sarasas, maybe he doesn't.  Maybe he will tell us, maybe he won't.  Either way he is more than entitled to his opinion, after all it wouldn't be much of a forum if we only had negative bitter comments from ex-employees of bad schools, would it?

[El Tel]

? ?El Tel, you seem to follow Sarasas schools around on these threads, always defending them.? ? ? ?

Jesus! This is only my 4th post on this forum.

Please quote my posts where I have defended Sarasas schools. Not saying I haven't, just can't remember doing so.
My post earlier in this thread is hardly a defence of them.


Okay. Rumour control, here are the facts.

I've been working for Sarasas for over 3 years.

The positives.

Salary over 40k.

The admin while usually a little chaotic are friendly enough. Even the Copy girl.

Never been paid late.

3.5 months PAID holiday every year.

Free full medical insurance.

TL and WP paid for and done on time. The admin girl who handles this is excellent!

Yearly pay rises. Not a great amount but still, a rise.

Attendance bonuses. Not a great amount but still, a bonus.

Thai teachers are your usual bunch. Some like westerners, a few don't.

The kids are mostly great. Some Matayom ones (at THAT age) can be a handful, though.

The western coordinators do try to be fair in the event of disputes but the bottom line is that they're employed by the school.
They're not union reps.

Morning assembly attendance is compulsory but there's no saluting or reciting of anything at all by the western staff.

Teachers can leave the premises at any time when not teaching. Just have to let the coordinator know

Lots of sharing of teaching materials between all teachers.

Fellow western teachers are mostly in stable long-term relationships. Some single ones like to party which is good.
Nearly all are friendly enough. One or two a little standoffish. No big deal.


The negatives.

The school is located far out of town.

The food isn't very good but they do try.

Some facilities are out of date.

Not enough sexy young female teachers.

1 month summer course alternate years.

The usual Thai love of style over substance.

A few longer serving western teachers like to form cliques.

Too many Flips.

The odd student with behavioural problems or learning difficulties which can be disruptive to the class.
In my case I had 2 instances of this type of kid ruining my classes. I fully sympathise with these kids' problems but my duty is to the majority of the class receiving tuition.
The action I took was supported by admin on both occasions.

So, it appears not every Sarasas is like Ektra. Now you may think I'm the type of teacher who always takes the schools' side.
If you've seen any of my posts on www.ajarnforum.net, you'll know that's really not the case. In fact the opposite is probably closer to the truth.
Just ask my mate ( ) Fill.

Think I'm not being entirely truthful? Well a senior mod on this forum is a long time mate. Shockingly flukey pool player though.

What, may I ask, is your experience with Sarasas schools, teachers, students, curiculum, school calandar, school suport personnel, resources available to teachers,? the paperwork that always is due on time, the librairies, the turnover rate of teachers at Sarasas schools, the food, the teaching materials, the support the school executive provides to the foreign stafff, the relationship between teachers foreign and Thai, staffs, respecitively, English Camps, weekend duties and assignments, after school assignments and requiements of foreign teachers, etc?

Let me answer these I haven't already covered one by one.

"resources available to teachers"
Not too good. There is hi-speed internet access though. PC's are dated.

"the paperwork that always is due on time"
Yeah, there's a fair amount of paperwork. Lesson plans etc.
Enough time is given before, during and after the semester to do this in school time though.

"the librairies"
Admittedly ours isn't very good. Very old books but starting to get new ones. A slow process.

"the turnover rate of teachers at Sarasas schools"
Well, I can only comment on my school. Turnover isn't very high. I think all western teachers completed their year contract. I personally know of only one who's moving on. There are many who have been here 4+ years.
The highest turnover is amonst the Flips, Japs and Chinese.

"the teaching materials"
Usual text books. Need supplementing. See my 1st post on this thread.

"English Camps"
Personally, I don't like the camps but many of the other teachers do. 3 days, 2 nights at a upcountry resort.
I could do without this but the school makes a fair bit of dosh from them and then gives me a 2 month paid holiday straight after.
I can't really complain about that.
Give and take.

"weekend duties and assignments"
I think last year we did 3 Saturdays, Sports day, Marching ( ) day and some other day I've forgotten about.
Usually, it's just 2 a year. No teaching, just playing games with the kids.

"after school assignments and requiements of foreign teachers"
After school? None that I'm aware of.
Staff meetings are conducted during the final period of the day at about 3pm.
When it finishes, we can leave early.

I must say, this is the longest post I've made on any forum.
If i haven't cleared up anything let me know.

I'm not saying Sarasas are the best schools to work at, I just don't think that they're all like NamTok says.
Just because he had a bad experience at one place, doesn't mean all (12, I think) should be tarred with the same brush.

Yes, I've read all the negative comments on various Sarasas schools on this forum (and previous incarnations) and of course sure, there's no smoke without fire.

All I'm saying is, where I work isn't really like that.

[hero]

Against moderators' guidelines I edited the above post slightly.  Please try to avoid posting anything that is confrontational toward another poster, everybody is entitled to their opinions, whether positive or negative.

Two previous Sarasas threads were locked as a result of users getting overexcited!  Please, make your point and allow others to do the same, that way the threads will stay open and anybody is free to add to the debate.

The "caning incident" is now the subject of a thread in the "Sour Gripes" forum, http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/index.php?topic=226.0 it shouldn't be a subject for discussion on thsi thread because it involves a different school and not Sarasas Romklao

[NamTok]

Nam Tok I believe I am correct in asserting that you received a public "caning" at the hands of Sarasas admin and stayed there reasonably long after, I presume at that time you were loyal to the cause!? Now you have left the employment of Sarasas schools you are entitled to have your complaints, which hugely outnumber on this forum any defence that El Tel is offering.? Maybe El Tel works for Sarasas, maybe he doesn't.? Maybe he will tell us, maybe he won't.? Either way he is more than entitled to his opinion, after all it wouldn't be much of a forum if we only had negative bitter comments from ex-employees of bad schools, would it?

  Agreed, hero. Without free and open discourse on these trhreads, and in society in general,? we'd all be mum and isolated, except for our private circles of friends who simply, almost always, only reinforce one another's views and experiences, a rather incestuous situation and cricumstance. Having read El Tel's "tell all,"  he seemed fairly balanced in his assessment of conditions affectiing foreign teachers at "his" Sarasas school.

   Honest and open discourse of course excludes personal negative characterizations of the behavious and reaction of a particular teacher at a particular Sarasas school, under particular and, especially, peculiar circumstances.?

   Further, I was pleased to see El Tel declare himself and to comment on the pros and cons of being a foreign teacher at his Sarasas school. I doubt that I'd have any coment or public reaction to El Tel's description of the everyday working lives of foreign teachers at  "his" Sarasas school, which---yes---seems a far cry from the working conditions of foreign teachers at Ektra, eg, at El Tel's Sarasas school there aren't pledges that anyone must make. That alone relects a different attitude toward foreign teachers by the leadership of El Tel's school to that of Sarasas Ektra.

   I've visited four (4) Sarasas schools besides Ektra, of the extant total of 16 Sarasas schools.? Not having been to the Sarasas school where El Tel teaches, I read what he states and generally accept his assertions. I don't know El Tel's Sarasas school. Therefore, I wouldn't presume to paint all Sarasas schools with the same brush (a nice cliche' by El Tel), nor would I consider what El Tel reports to us about "his" Sarasas  school and experiience to be less than the truth.

  One reason I can say this is that, still, for the many radical differences that seem to exist by El Tel's account of life for the foreign teacher at 'his" Sarasas school and what I know in depth and in greath breadth and detail of Sarasas Ektra school, many of the same old similarities seem to exist at each school, pro and con.

   For example, as to a few differences, the Ektra health program is good but not as good as El Tel describes at the Sarasas school where he teaches; and, positively, Ektra teachers have to submit an order from the Privy Council to leave the campus when the Ektra teacher doesn't have a class. As to an example of a similarity, TL and WP are also done precisely on time at Ektra, as the woman who does this great volume of work (100+ foreign teachers at Ektra) is the most competent Thai in Thailand.

   In all, there seems a great difference of attitude on the part of the owners and managers of El Tel's Sarasas school (not bad at all) and of those counterparts at Ektra, which is simply horrendous.

[dorian_gray]

El Tel mentioned "Flips". What does it mean?

[El Tel]

Having read El Tel's "tell all" above, he seemed fairly balanced in his assessment of conditions affectiing foreign teachers at "his" Sarasas school, Romklao.

Sorry but nowhere in my post did I state I worked at the Romklao school.
I know the thread is on that subject but to set the record straight, I'm not at Romklao.

Flips. Short for Filipinos.

[El Tel]

Ektra teachers have to submit an order from the King himself to leave the campus when the Ektra teacher doesn't have a class.

Eh? Are there guard dogs?
Watchtowers?
Razor wire?

Nam, correct me if I'm wrong here.
Foreign Ektra teachers are experienced & qualified, yes?
They survived uni and have some life experience, yes?

So for the life of me, I just don't understand why anyone like that would allow themselves to be treated with such disrespect.

I just don't get it!

[NamTok]

At Sarasas Ektra I worked with Fillipnos (Amer Eng spelling, ie, double "l") but had never until now heard the term, "Flips.". I immediately recognized the term as what it is, but had never heard the term in the US or during my eight years of teaching English in Thailand. Amazing!!!

[dorian_gray]

Many Filipinos (the only correct spelling--please go to http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/fillipino) find "flip" very offensive. Some equate it with the "n" word, "chink", "yank", "froggie" and others.

Anyway, what is wrong with having many Filipino teachers in one school?

[NamTok]

El Tel,

The mood and atmosphere of all of those elements are present, if not the physical items themselves, but it's a simple matter of the gates being locked. Foreign teachers who step across the soi for lunch are known to be locked out on a daily basis. However, Ektra school did place a buzzer button at that particular gate, so that the foreign teachers who aren't back from lunch time by 5 minutes in advance of the experiation of lunch hour (which roll at Ektra, so that students and Thai and foreign teachers eat in "shifts,") can be "buzzed in," an event that is duly reported and recorded against the foreign teacher. A Thai teacher who similarly has to be buzzed in is hanged by the thumbs after school, from 18:00 to 20:00 (you know I josh on this point, but Buddha save the Thai teacher who has to be buzzed in from lunch just a few feet across the soi from the school at that particular gate, from small outdoor restaurants directly across the soi from the particular gate).

[NamTok]

dorian gray,
   I didn't raise the matter of "Flips" and I'm sure it's an offensive word to people from the Phils, the Phils not being offensive to friends of Fillipinos. Astralians advise me that the word "Fillipinos" with the double "l" is the Australian English spelling of the word as well.
   I do believe we're discussing cultural differences and semantics here, but I could be correctied on the point. But that's what I do believe.
   Philippines having the double "p" and Fillipinos having the double "l."
   How'd I get dragged into this esoteric and cultural matter, anyway. The End. Thank you.

[NamTok]

El Tel
? ?Yes and no. There were and continue to be foreign "teachers" emplyed as teachers at Sarasas Ektra school who've never set foot on a university campus, much less have a university degree. The Ektra hierarchy loves to have such foreign teachers. Both the Ektra ownership and leadership know that foreign teachers who've never set foot on a university campus hired to teach at Ektra are the most obedient, respectful, subservient of all foreign teachers. The reasons for this are obvious, are they not? The farang without a degree or a single credit of study at a university is the most entirely dependent on the Ektra ownership and especially to the third tier of? Ektta leadership, ie the coordinators, of pre-school,? primary, secondary? education. The foreign "teachers" absent any university education are welcome and easy to control. Incidentally, 99% of such hires are from the UK,, as being from the UK automatically defines one to the Ektra hierarchy as the original and, thus, the ultimate native originator, possessor and definer of the English language.

For example, the director of Sarasas Ektra school in 2001asked me to organize a US style "Prom" for the 2nd graduating class of this young bilingual school. A South African black-skinned woman teacher called me over as I happened to be walking past the stage and arrangements while they were being set up. "Oh, oh, " she said to me, pointing to the stage. The drapes (curtains) providing the backdrop? had the word? "Prompt." So I went to the senior Thai teacher of English to point out to him that the word is "Prom," orginiating from the French word "Promade," as to walk about and to display one's self in a PROMinent place, such as in France, the West Bank but other places as well.

Well, the senior Thai English teacher was incredulous. He could not accept my statement that the word is "Prom," as used and applied in the US. The senior Thai teacher of English went dashing to a Brit who had taught English at the school for three consecutive years to seek confirmation that the word for the event was indeed, "Prompt," The Brit corrected the senior Thai teacher of English, advising him that the word associated with the event is, indeed, "Prom." Only then did the senior Thai teacher of English make the correction by removing the letter "t" from the word on the drapes. So, only then did? we had our Prom, as invented and developed by people of the US. But it took the word of of a Brit to convince the Thai senior teacher of English that the US event called a "Prom," was indeed a "Prom" and not a "Prompt."

So, while most of the world is leaning English---American English---some learners of English as a foreign language or as a second (or 3rd, or 4th) language continue to look to Engiand and the Brits to define the English language, even when there are new origins and/or applications to words of the English language that have different origins and meaning in a country, the US, separated by 3,000 miles of ocean (which some Brits love to call the"'pond," to symbolize to them the closeness of Anglo-American culture, society and civiliation) and a different experience of language and its culture which have litttle or nothing, to do with British English (beyond the Norman Conquest., which is another discussion).? ?

[Mods-Rockers]

El Tel
   
So, while most of the world is leaning English---American English---some learners of English as a foreign language or as a second (or 3rd, or 4th) language continue to look to Engiand and the Brits to define the English language, even when there are new origins and/or applications to words of the English language that have different origins and meaning in a country, the US, separated by 3,000 miles of ocean (which some Brits love to call the"'pond," to symbolize to them the closeness of Anglo-American culture, society and civiliation) and a different experience of language and its culture which have litttle or nothing, to do with British English (beyond the Norman Conquest., which is another discussion).   

Just a small point of order here Nam, but one that possibly accounts for the senior Thai English teacher checking the accuracy of something you said with the British speaker of English.
Whilst most of the world  is learning English, be it amereng briteng or the lesser known dialects of the upper swampland in lower swampville, they either learn English as a foreign language or as a second language. If learned as a second language its because its used as a second language, normally as an official second (often administrative)language, at all other times its because its used as a foreign language. If English or French or any language for that matter in known by someone and is not used along with L1 on a daily basis (or as an official second language) then it is classed as a foreign language not ?second (or 3rd, or 4th) language?

[Uncle Che]

I have locked this thread down and I will lock down any thread on Sarasas over the next week or so. As these threads continue, the posts and posters are rapidly losing their crediblity. I will re-open this thread when emotions have calmed down. Don't take this as censorship as users may continue to post in Sour Gripes, there is a special thread there for BCC and Sarasas.

[Uncle Che]

Ok, the Sarasas threads are now open. Please read the updated rules for the forum. The new addition is the the three strikes rules. Any more than two unconstructive posts on a thread by any user will be moved to Sour Gripes. What constitutes an unconstructive post will be up to the moderators.

[airpuka]

Ok here is some more drama from the sarasas schools, its not so bad but i insist on writing down everything they do to screw over its foreign teachers untill they are in the hall of shame!
anyways  they basically lied to about 5 of us about our salaries, the human resources guy made me come into the school at 7.00 on a saturday for no reason whatsoever just to sign some papers which i had already signed a couple days before which they said was lost. Then it was agreed that i would get a full months salary for the summer program before i signed the contract, which i signed on the 1st but started work on the monday which was the 3rd, but come payday they tried to cut my pay dramaticly saying i didint start work untill around the 12th and that i was not getting paid salary for this month and was infact getting paid for working days only which worked out to be less money, so obviously i was going to take this up with higher adminsitration but when i called her she was Extremely rude to me and accused me of lying and being rude to her, and i told them to look up my contract and they said it didint matter what the contract said cause they said that the financial office had me starting on the 12th, so to make a long story short i complained and kept calling untill they got my pay right, but 5 other teachers at the same school got screwed out of their pay and got paid way less then they were intitiled to. so basically What the hell is a contract for in this country?

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

Sarasas Ektra school currently is posting for 20 new teachers. After that it will post for 20 more....and then 20 more etc. After several consecutive years of full time teaching at Ektra School, to include having been lead foreign teacher,? I can point out major problems at the school which account for the high annual turnover of foreign staff. In fact, Ektra always is looking for foreign staff, as some leave after one day, or one week, one month, one semester.

First, the foreign teacher is always wrong while the students are always right. One needn't elaborate on this anomaly as to the effects on classroom management and the attempt to present lessons. Second, The school is in a compact space, which means there is noise pollution which is regularly unbearable to foreigners. The reaction of the school is "That's too bad for you. Just get used to it!" The band and chorus, for example, in an adjacent building can be heard in nearby buildings, as can the boom, boom, boom of the drum as scouts rehearse their marching immediately outside the secondary building. The PE area is centrally located on the grounds so, consequently, its noise permates buildings all day. Some foreign teachers wear swimmer's earplugs all day to mute all of this this constant, regular and maddening noise pollution. Also, most foreign teachers who provide proper departure notice are shorted money when they leave (in a rare exception, I wasn't). Further, at the beginning of each year each foreign teacher begins with a measly Baht 1,500 salary increment to take effect in the contract of the following year (the school has never ending optimism!). However, during the course of the year punative deductions are taken against the Baht 1,500? increment so that typically the foreign teacher ends up with an increase of perhaps Baht 500 (five hundred)

The secondary school corrdinator is a wild, arbitrary, whimsical man who is known to burst into a classroom, to boistrously direct the foreign teacher to sit down at the back of the classroom while declaring that he will show how to teach the subject to the class (this never happened to me, as he wouldn't have dared!) Secondary students refer to this coordinator, the person in charge of the secondary department of Ektra school, as the Buffalo. This is due to the fact that the human-animal resemblance is remarkably similar and, because of what students think of him personally and profesionally.? He is also know to have the foulest mouth in all of Thailand (I can't speak as to his native Australia, although he has a certai nersonality type--y'kow?!?.) Moroever, the school views foreign teachers as intruders into the society and culture of Thailand and has a long-standing, conscious and deliberate policy of reducing and humiliating foreign teachers to show students how dumb foreign teachers (farangs) are and how smart/clever the Thais running the school are. Indeed, one departing teacher during her one and only year commented, "I'm tired of being made to feel guilty," when of course there was nothing in reality for her or, typically,? for any foreign teacher to feel "gulty" about. There is a problem but it begins and ends with? the negative attitude of the school toward the foreign teacher(s) (foreign devils). The school knows it needs English from native speakers of English, but does everything it can to prevent the foreign teacher? from doing any more than teaching some English to students.

 FOREIGN TEACHER PUBLICLY CANED: Yes, so bold and aggressive is the Ektra school Thai directoral staff that one morning, during one of 5 morning assemblies each week, one foreign teacher was assaulted from behind , being caned on the back of the right calf by a Thai assistant director. The reason? The foreign teacher, one of many foreign teachers not reciting required public pledges, was singled out? for a public caning before all of the assembled students, Thai teachers and foreign teachers for non-recital of mandatory pledges. At each morning assembly foreign teachers have to recite two of ten weekly pledges, eg, "I will be loyal to your king and country;" "I will be a good teacher;" "I will obey the school's rules," and other like vacuuous platitudes, although Pledge No.1 "I will be loyal to your king and country" clearly is a violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (adopted by the UN General Assembly effective 1976).. The public caning of a foreign teacher at a public event, ie, a morning assembly is yet another indication of the deliberate, shameless and systemic low regard and abusive treatment Ektra school owners and their top operatives have toward foreign teachers.

FOREIGN TEACHER THREATENED: In the Prathom (primary) school a 2nd grade boy urinated in his pants while in class. As "punishment" the Thai teacher made the boy remove all lower body clothing and required the boy to stand genitals exposed before the whole of the class. When the foreign teacher in the class strenously and vociferously objected, he was swiftly and decisively removed from the classroom building to the director's office. The foreign teacher, a European, spoke of reporting the barbarous treatment of the child to the Ministry of Education. However, the foreign teacher emerged from the director's office pale and gaunt and said nothing for days. The foreign teacher later stated that he had been told to remain silent or suffer the (ultimate) consequence. Many foreign teachers believed that much more than the teacher's job was at stake as a result of his vehement objection to this so-described traditional and customary Thai practice, something one would expect with historical shame to read in a Dickens' novel. Yet, the Chinese-Thai ownership of the school saw the farang's strong reaction as a direct challenge and as a most serious threat to Thai history, customs and tradition.

Do beware these Ektra people...... ? ?

An outstanding post that reflects my experiences there too. Well done. 

[NamTok]

Mr. Tam-di-dai-di,
? ?Thanks for your compliment and for your fruther verification of the truth and accuracy of my post you cite immediately below. Sorry I don't know who you are or that I hadn't any idea you taught at Sarasas Ektra, tho you speak of your "experiences there too," (meaning of course Sarasas Ektra school).

   If you don't mind I'll PM you shortly. I would hope we could meet again in that way. Thanks again for your helping foreign teachers, especially those new to Thailand, and for helping TeflWatch further to accept the Watergate-style staggering truths I write about Sarasas Ektra school, and of my concerns in respect to foreign teachers relative to the newly opening Sarasas Don Muang .

   (Did you read the "Sour Gripes" category? People say that one can get a good chuckle there. Some humor in all of this is good to have and to enjoy----and to be able to post for all to read, as here at teflWatch.)

   Incidentally, in PM-ing to you, I do so from the highly probable presumption that we were colleagues at Sarasas Ektra school for some period of time, altho we might not necessarily have been. I rather hope we were....

[NamTok]

El Tel
? ?
So, while most of the world is leaning English---American English---some learners of English as a foreign language or as a second (or 3rd, or 4th) language continue to look to Engiand and the Brits to define the English language, even when there are new origins and/or applications to words of the English language that have different origins and meaning in a country, the US, separated by 3,000 miles of ocean (which some Brits love to call the"'pond," to symbolize to them the closeness of Anglo-American culture, society and civiliation) and a different experience of language and its culture which have litttle or nothing, to do with British English (beyond the Norman Conquest., which is another discussion).? ?

Just a small point of order here Nam, but one that possibly accounts for the senior Thai English teacher checking the accuracy of something you said with the British speaker of English.
Whilst most of the world? is learning English, be it amereng briteng or the lesser known dialects of the upper swampland in lower swampville, they either learn English as a foreign language or as a second language. If learned as a second language its because its used as a second language, normally as an official second (often administrative) language, at all other times its because its used as a foreign language. If English or French or any language for that matter in known by someone and is not used along with L1 on a daily basis (or as an official second language) then it is classed as a foreign language not ?second (or 3rd, or 4th) language?

? ?Yes, Mods-Rockers, L1, L2 etc. It took me a while to comment on your knowledgable and accurate statement, but I was thinking of a private secondary school at which I taught in the US and at which about 1/3 of the students were from Egypt. A good 80% of the Egyptian students were fluent in several languages. Most of their families were businesspeople involved in global trade. So their fathers were and, eventually the students themselves would be, in the same business and therefore be using the several "foreign" languages on a regular basis. At which point,? the question presents itself: "How many second languages can a person have?"? Which is why I referred to 3rd language (L3!), 4th language (L4!) etc.

? ?Yes, most business their fathers conduct is conducted in the English language, which of course truly makes English L2 to this upper class of Egyptians (and to similarly situated other foreign nationals engaged in global busness intercourse). But experience living and working abroad, which I reasonably can assume you have,?makes clear that the people of a foreign country absolutely love to be spoken to and to have discourse in the native language of the particular foreign country. So not all negotiating, bargaining, hammering out of global trade agreements by private corporations etc are conducted exclusively in the English language, or L2. In other words, if an Egyptian importer-exporter travels to Mexico, is fluent in Spanish and conducts business (and pleasure) in Spanish---and is also fluent in English, French, German---does he have several L2 languages? Which is why I went to 3rd language, 4th language (on the basis of the order in which, in this instance, most of the Egyptians learned the native languages of other peoples, but the sequence in which foreign languages are learned 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc is not significant in determining L2, L3, L4 or even L12, such as the late Pope Paul knew). (Wow! How's this posting for getting off topic!!)

And, yes again, many countries use English as an official language, which we know means it's spoken only by the educated elites, such as diplomats, cabinet miisters, global traders, selected educators etc. and used in composing official documents etc.

   I think we're saying the same thing but in different sematical ways and from different perspectives based on our international experience(s).?Despite the latter, aren't  we at least in the same ballpark (stadium), so to speak?

[NamTok]

About this caning incident of a foreign teacher during the morning assembly.
Could someone let me know the gender and the initials of the name of the Thai teacher involved?
I happen to be close to a few parents whose children are studying at Ektra who are interested in finding out about what all is going on in the school behind their backs .

? ?Publicly, I would reiterate for clarity that the person who caned me during a morning assembly is not a teacher. She is a Thai assistant director (=assistant principal) of Sarasas Ektra school, assigned to the Mathayom (secondary) Department, as the school references it. (I've already contacted you by PM and, as I'd stated,? if you need further info you are welcome to PM to me.)

? As I'd stated, I'll respond to your every question and concern as best I can.? After my six consecutive years at Sarasas Ektra, I quote one student who'd left Ektra while in Grade 11 (M5) for university? and who privately said to me that Sarasas Ektra school "is the most dangerous prison in the world."? Sarasas Ektra school operates programs of pre-school thru Grade 12 (M6), so, if nothing else, one can understand the importance of the scope of the statement. Frankly, as much as I know about the freakishness of those who own and operate Sarasas Ektra school, the awesome truth of this powerful statement left me speechless. (The student and I remain in regular contact; the student? is doing superbly at university.)

[NamTok]

Ektra teachers have to submit an order from the King himself to leave the campus when the Ektra teacher doesn't have a class.

Eh? Are there guard dogs?
Watchtowers?
Razor wire?

Nam, correct me if I'm wrong here.
Foreign Ektra teachers are experienced & qualified, yes?
They survived uni and have some life experience, yes?

So for the life of me, I just don't understand why anyone like that would allow themselves to be treated with such disrespect.

El Tel
   Yes, there are guard dogs at Sarasas Ektra school. They are caged during the day. But don't try to come back in the evening because you forgot something or need to get something to prepare for the next day. Don't try to go in to Sarasas Ektra school on weekends because you need or want to catch up on paperwork, or something like stacks of exam papers. The guard dogs will tear off a piece of your arse. And it's no consolation that the guard dogs are caged during the day. The same function of the guard dogs is performed by the Thai assistant directors and the foreign assistant directors during each day. Not a day goes by at Sarasas Ektra school when a Thai assistant director or a power mad foreign assistant director doesn't tear off a chunk of your arse. So, yes, literally, there are guard dogs at Sarasas Ektra school, 24-7.

    Just to be absolutely clear, my friend,  the atmosphere of guard towers and barbed wire is, if not in fact a reaity at Sarasas Ektra school, it is real to foreign teachers in in the treatment and attitude of us by the Thai ownership of the school, its Thai assistant director operatives, and, perhaps worst of all, its foreign assistant director operatives. But have no doubt that the guard dogs are real.

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

 ^^^^Yet another saddening set of facts that I can verify from my years spent there.

The V.P's there are exactly like guard dogs, and would say the most demeaning, unprofessional, and nasty things in Thai, thinking I didn't understand Thai as I didn't speak it at school.

Awful school. 

[Uncle Che]

Any more posts that mention the now infamous caning incident will be deleted, ie the whole post will be deleted.

Thanks!

[Mods-Rockers]

? ?I think we're saying the same thing but in different sematical ways and from different perspectives based on our international experience(s).?Despite the latter, aren't? we at least in the same ballpark (stadium), so to speak?

Same field yes (ballpark is os american english  ) but defending different goals I think. Thus as you say we could argue semantics  till the cows come home and get the square root of diddly squat done, so best to leave well along maybe.

[NamTok]

Mod Mods-Rockers,

     

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

This school deserves the 'Hall of Shame' more than any place I have worked for in Thailand.

I have more horrific tales should this be required for 'Stalag Ektra' to qualify.

[hero]

Several posts split and moved to this thread in the Sour Gripes forum: http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/index.php?topic=274.0

Admittedly they weren't exactly "sour gripes" but they were completely off topic

[NamTok]

This school deserves the 'Hall of Shame' more than any place I have worked for in Thailand.

I have more horrific tales should this be required for 'Stalag Ektra' to qualify.

Mr. Tam-di-dai-di,

I urge you once again to speak out of your horrible experiences at Stalag Ektra. You owe to us all. I've spoken out. Previously, Stalag Ektra tried to deport me without any legal or legitimate grounds whatsoever. They failed in the face of a combination of powerful opposition and no legitimate or legal basis whasoever. The effort by Stalag Ektra was done out of pure meanness. Stalag Ektra, as you so well term it, deserves to be known, as I have made a number, but not all, presentations of my experience to date. Just a few from you would help foreign teachers so much....

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

Ok....................

It was an awful school, and may still be.

Divide and rule at it's best. No contact with parents (so we could be blamed for everything without it getting back to us), and not allowed to talk to Thai teachers for more than 3 minutes (no kidding).

No leaving during school hours, and guard posts had pics of farang teachers to dob them in.

Regularly cheated out of money FOR NOTHING, they still owe me money. I know of ten former teachers who lost their no sick day bonus (20 000) for nothing more being a few minute late from lunch. Others, would turn up at 9 30 am and keep theirs due to being in with the H.O.E.

An agressive, rude man was the head of the high school (totally unprofessional and offensive), and a pathalogical liar and money cheat was the overall foriegn head. The personal lives of teachers that had left would be 'exposed', (or just plain lied about in a vindictive manner) by the H.O.E, UNBELIEVABLE unprofessionalism!

The Thai V.P's would say the most awful things in Thai about foriegn teachers, sometimes in front of students, and betrate Thai teachers who spoke up in the most horrific manner.

Two former Sarasas Thai teachers work at my new school and in their words "at least we don't need to be scared all day anymore".

This all lead to a negative atmosphere where the kids had NO respect for us, very naughty kids were just told "mai pen rai", it's the farangs fault.

Two of my friends that worked there as well were deducted in excess of 20 000 baht for doing the right thing and giving the required notice. Needless to say they left the kingdom with  bad feelings. Teachers were threatened in a classic mafia stand over tactic style too.

Some rooms have no air, internet is for Thais only (you'll get that apartheid feeling after a while there) bad books if you're lucky enough to have any. Forget about the library, reading is just slacking off, not a teacher trying to better himself.

The worst teaching experience of my career.

[Speaksoftly]

A post has been deleted because it made insinuations of pedophilia against individuals and groups at Sarasas.  Please see the locked St. Joseph's thread for more details.  We are not going to do this.

[Scott]

I have a bit of an inside track on this one.  Yes they can get WP's for non-native speakers, it isn't a problem for any of the schools.  If the Non-native speaker has the proper credentials (degrees, etc).  Non-native speakers, however, are required to take a TOEIC exam, through the Ministry of Education. 

In the bilingual programs non-native speakers are not employed as language teachers,(normally) they may be teaching math, science, social etc. in English, but not conversational English or grammar.  In the Thai schools, non-native speakers, primarily Filipinos, are employed to teach English.

A lot of these teachers are very good, very well qualified, and experienced. 

[Uncle Che]

 

Wrong! Non-native speakers do not need to take ANY exam in order to get a teacher's license. Of course it could vary from province to province, but I knew many Filipinas with work permits/teacher's book without taking any exam whatsoever.

[Uncle Che]

For what it's worth, I did this Google Search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sarasas+schools+bangkok&btnG=Google+Search

Guess what site is #1? Yes, it is TEFLWatch.

[NamTok]

    Che, thanks for the info.

      I checked it out.

      No doubt about it.

      TeflWatch, #1!

[Dangerous]

I felt the need to reply to this post.

Sarasas Romklao is the first school that I have taught at in Thailand, and as long as you do what you are supposed to do - teach the children, the administration stay out of your way. The lack of a standardised curriculam is a God send. It means that you can identify areas where the students are weak and spend more time improving these areas. As long as you take your job seriously, you won't have any problems.

The kids are well behaved, and if you make an effort to get along with the Thai teachers they can make your job a whole lot easier, the salary is also great compared to many other schools in the area.

Agreed, they don't spend much time training the Teachers, but Teachers are there to be teach, not to be taught.

Adios!

[blackmail]

I felt the need to reply to this post.

As long as you take your job seriously, you won't have any problems.

I believe that many of us would take having to spend the day with a naked P-2 student, seriously.

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

 ^^^^And being physically threatened.

And being called "suak" in front of other teachers (Thai) and students, thinking you wouldn't understand. An unforgivable insult in their language. And totally unprofessional coming from an assistant principal who should be a role model to others.

[NamTok]

   Well, Dangerous, I take seriously my profession as an educator and I got cained at a morning assembly. I was lead foreign teacher (secondary).

     We need to take care not to judge all schools on the basis of one. We also need to look beyond into the larger world than our one school.

[Scott]

Uncle Che:  I don't know about where you are, but here our non-native speaking English teachers are required by the MOE to take an exam.  I don't know exactly when they started this, however.  A few years back they didn't take an exam and those teachers now do not have to. 

Our school sets up one exam date per year.  If the teacher doesn't go to that one, they have to reschedule with the MOE. 

[NamTok]

   I'm sure Scott is correct. I know several Fillipinos at Sarasas Ektra who had to take an exam. I can't now remember which one, but affected teachers were forever worrying and fretting over it. Last I'd heard, no one's failed whichever exam it is.

[Scott]

I know they have to take the exam, but I heard (but I don't know for sure) that the exam is rather difficult and that a lot of people fail it.  My understanding is, if they fail, they have to sign up to take it again.  I'll try and check with someone and post it. 

[Scott]

I did some checking.  There is an international exam that non-native (Filipino) teachers can take and there is a local one that is given monthly at Chulalongkorn University.  At my school, all of them have to take the test before they get a teacher's license.

[NamTok]

   Thanks. I think that bit of info closes this circle. Now we know.

[NamTok]

   So, we've let things settle for several days since TeflWatch last week closed the thread "Responses to Sarasas Schools enter the Hall of Shame." The issue seemed to be whether the poster named "Another" is, in fact, as I've stated, the person at Sarasas Ektra School who is the head of secondary. There are issues beyond this which need discussion as well, but first things first.
   "Another" and the head of secondary at Sarasas Ektra School are one in the same person. I assert this on the basis of six consecutive years at Ektra working with the person. Another speaks in the same voice as does the head of secondary at Sarasas Ektra. "Voice" is defined in Oxford as "how in spoken or written words one expresses one's feelings, thoughts, opinions." When I read "Another's" postings I hear and read the voice of the Ektra head of secondary.
   I also know his voice by the topics he chooses. For example, I've never discussed the reaction to my resignation from the day after I left. Another, however, chose to address the matter. He would. Another said that my resignation "went unnoticed." As I said, I've never until now mentioned that from the day after the effective date of my resignation, 31 January 2005  my departure was a  major and constant topic of discussion throughout the school until the end of the school year, and beyond. The head of secondary of  Sarasas Ektra would try to mischaracterize the reality of the commotion my departure stirred.
    Further, Another said last week that he was going to speak to the senior students on Teacher's Day, which was Thursday to, in my paraphrasing, give them hell for continuing to be in contact with me. Since last Thursday I have spoken with the senior students. The senior students on Teacher's Day last Thursday caught holy hell from the head of secondary and the Thai woman assistant director who'd caned me. The senior students caught holy hell for having contact with me and were ORDERED to cease ANY further contact with me in any and all forms. In sum, Another said he'd speak to the senior students on Teacher's Day, which was last Thursday. Last Thursday the head of secondary spoke to the senior students to, as I've noted, gave them holy hell for being in continued contact with me. I rest my case.
    For the sake of argument, however, let's say that "Another" is not the same person who is the head of secondary at Sarasas Ektra school. Yes, for the sake of argument, even tho "Another" is in fact head of secondary at Ektra. If it were the case that Another is not the head of secondary, that does not change the facts I presented in my posting #47 in the now locked "Responses" thread.. The person who spontaneously and randomly erupts into belligerent and bellicose bellowing at students is the head of secondary. The person who then physically assaults students is the person who is head of secondary, then and now.
   The actions I accurately ascribe in posting #47 to the head of secondary are true actions, witnessed by many. For example, during the September 2004 end-of-semester exams, there was silence in the secondary building, as students were sitting an exam. One side of the building is open to the outdoors. Suddenly a bellowing and bellicose voice was heard throughout the building, on all 7 floors. It was the head of secondary hollering and shouting at whichever group of students happened to be near him at the moment of his uncontrolled fit of madness. Then some of us could hear the "thump, thump,thump" of the head of secondary striking students as he continued to bellow. Most of us did not witness this with our eyes, as we of course were dispersed throughout the building. Everyone heard it, tho.
    Indeed, some Thai and foreign techers did literally witness the grossly disturbing  behaviour of the head of secondary. A certain number of students witnessed the eruption and assaults. And a few Grade 9 (M-3) studends had the misfortune of experiencing the assault and battery by the head of secondary. As I'd noted in my posting #47 in the "Responses" thread, the school had to warn the head of secondary to cease and desist in this wild, if not mad, behaviour.       
   Now the same head of secondary, who also is an assistant director of Sarasas Ektra school (for curriculum), last Thursday has further terrifed the present group of upper secondary students. I point out in posting #47 (referenced above)  that students physically fear the head of secondary. Indeed, Ektra students physically have feared him for more than a few years now. After his raging performance of last Thursday, the students fear of him physically is at an unprecedented level.
   How can this be? How can such a person reach such a position of authority and power? Further, how can he be retained in the position, given his obvious disturbed and disturbing behaviours? The answer is, I think, identical to the closing line in the movie, "Chinatown," by the late John Huston with Jack Nicholson and Faye Dunaway. The closing line is: "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Well, I don't advise anyone forgetting anything of this posting or any of the several postings I've made relative to Sarasas and Sarasas Ektra. I simply ask and say: How can it happen? It's Sarasas Ektra. That's how all of it happens. Remember, everyone, it's Sarasas Ektra.   

[NamTok]

   Well, there hasn't been a response from Sarasas Ektra for about two weeks. Looks like Ektra have thown in the towel. After all, the deeper we get into the matter of Sarasas and Sarasas Ektra in particular, the more the facts and truth are exposed. Ektra knows that, after six consecutive years of teaching at Ektra, I know where the bodies are buried. Further, I know who buried them and why. Further responses by Ektra would only go more deeply into that reality. It might seem that this thread has run its course. However, the thread should remain for foreign teachers to read, in whole or in part.
   Ask me a question if you like---anyone, to include Ektra. I know about the bodies. Everything.

[cummings93]

I have gotten a lot of negative feedback about this school.  I admit, I am very weary of a school that offers me a postion and doesn't even interview first.  Hmmm?  This probably should have been my first indication.  Well, the Sarasas Bangbuathong school has offered me a job starting November 1, 2006.  And I still haven't made up my mind.  Could anyone please help me here?

[NamTok]

   Well, there hasn't been a response from Sarasas Ektra for about two weeks. Looks like Ektra have thown in the towel. After all, the deeper we get into the matter of  Sarasas and Sarasas Ektra in particular, the more the facts and truth are exposed. Ektra knows that, after my six consecutive years of teaching at Ektra, I know where the bodies are buried. Further, I know who buried them, when and why. Further responses by Ektra would only go more deeply into that reality. It might seem that this thread has run its course. However, the thread should remain for foreign teachers to read, in whole or in part.
   Ask me a question if you like---anyone, to include Ektra. I know about the bodies. Everything.

[NamTok]

Cummings"93
   Many schools have negative aspects which need to be pointed out both to the school owners and to prospective teachers. But, as with Sarasas, when so much negativity pours like a waterfall concerning so many of the Sarasas 16 schools, there's more than smoke. There's a fire that will give you 3rd degree burns. I've experienced it and I've also witnessed it many times (many!). 

[Gonzo]

But, as with Sarasas, when so much negativity pours like a waterfall concerning so many of the Sarasas 16 schools, there's more than smoke. There's a fire that will give you 3rd degree burns. I've experienced it and I've also witnessed it many times (many!).

From your experience at one campus.
I have worked at two Sarasas campuses over a period of five years and I have not had one major problem with management, curriculum or student. A few minor ones that were resolved to my satisfaction. From what I hear on the Sarasas grapevine NamTok it's time to make sure your ducks are in a row.
Sarasas are not the best and not the worst of schools in Thailand. The job is what you choose to make of it. If that includes trying to make over the admin then you are going to lose. No different to anywhere else in the world.

[NamTok]

Gonzo,

   Someone (Cummings'93) asked me a question and I gave my honest and direct answer. I'd be interested in your saying what you've heard of Ektra school. Or if you've been to Ektra?

   And what's this "...it's time to make sure your ducks are in a row" business? You sound like Sarasas. I invite you to put this into the "Sarasas grapevine":

   I haven't gone to the police about the caning.

   I haven't gone to the Ministry of Labor.

   Nor have I gone to the Ministry of Education.

   Nor to the embassy of my country.

   Nor to the press/media.

   Nor have I sought the services of a lawyer.          

   I went to TeflWatch. Ektra admitted the fact of the caning to TeflWatch; admitted that I demanded an apology; admitted the apology was made; admitted the apology was accepted. However, I don't rule out any of the above listed entities as other places to which I could/would go concerning the caning.
    Now teachers (and others) in Thailand know all they need to know about Sarasas Ektra. Some others have spoken of some other Sarasas schools.
    Again, I point out that I was asked a question and I gave a direct and honest answer. I wouldn't recommend Sarasas. 

[hero]

Let's try and not go back to the bickering that has plagued this thread all along guys

Remember, positive and negative posts are equally welcome and acceptable here....

I may not agree with what he says, but I defend to the death his right to say it.

....and all that

[Gonzo]

 

[NamTok]

                                                   

[hero]

Mirror man - insulting or inflammatory posts will always be removed from this forum

I have moved it to the "squared circle" where all future Sarasas related "bickerings" and insults will be parked.  Should you require access to the "squared circle" to join the fun, please send a PM to admin and he will grant you access to it!

 

Hero

[buckseedar]

Hi folks...
Im new to this malarky, not new to Sarasas though...The teaching standard is very poor indeed, native and non native. Although everything looks "lovely" for the parents (millions of B spent on the outside, nothing on teaching..) Our building, has the use of  4  computers... sounds ok? Theres about 40 teachers. We have to buy our own printer paper. white board markers....AND they expect us to pay for photocopies.. to make THEIR tests. I'm sorry, i have to stop here...,. its p#ssing me off too much thinking about it.... theres LOADS more. Ive been here 4 years....Can someone get me a nice job in Rayong....?

[hero]

As I noted previously, there are now three threads devoted to Sarasas schools - one here, one in "sour gripes" and a new no-holds-barred one in "squared circle" (PM admin for admission to that room!).  Whatever is posted will have a home somewhere

[Speaksoftly]

Just like to back up my fellow mod Hero, here.  I have moved an additional pair of thinly veiled gripes to the bickering thread in the Squared Circle.  I would suggest to the posters whose posts were moved (and they know who they are) that they refrain from addressing each other directly in this thread (as such posts will most likely be moved) and duke it out in the Squared Circle.

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

Hi folks...
Im new to this malarky, not new to Sarasas though...The teaching standard is very poor indeed, native and non native. Although everything looks "lovely" for the parents (millions of B spent on the outside, nothing on teaching..) Our building, has the use of  4  computers... sounds ok? Theres about 40 teachers. We have to buy our own printer paper. white board markers....AND they expect us to pay for photocopies.. to make THEIR tests. I'm sorry, i have to stop here...,. its p#ssing me off too much thinking about it.... theres LOADS more. Ive been here 4 years....Can someone get me a nice job in Rayong....?

Sounds like what I remember. Window dressing and penny pinching.

[NamTok]

The rumours I heard were something along the lines of  "You can't do anything because the owner of the Sarasas chain is very big in some very big circles!"

I didn't pay that much attention, but then I don't have any interest in Sarasas schools - except for wishing to "out" them as potentially Bangkok's most notoriously bad employers

It also is rumoured (although very possibly untrue) that they can get WPs as English teachers for non-native speakers - I thought this was impossible too   Maybe they are that well connected

But then I don't know anything - just rumours

hero,

   As you can see this is a belated posting but I've wanted for a long time to address the impression many have had that Sarasas has big clout and is powerful and formidable. Some cite Sarasas's role in closing ThaiSchoolWatch as evidence of this clout.

   Well, Sarasas is a billion Baht organization of 16 schools constructed over the past 40 years. It always has had clout. However, that clout began to diminish once Thai Rak Thai was elected to the government, in 2001. TRT immediately began to alienate propriatary schools such as Sarasas by announcing a schedule of gradually increased fees for farang teacher extensions of stay on the non-imm-b work visa and the WP. Sarasas, which pays for these documents for several hundred foreign teachers (and, ostensibly all taxes) objected...and objected and objected and objected. TRT ministries got tired of seeing---and hearing---Sarasas. Further upsetting Sarasas (and other schools), the paperwork required of the schools to get these documents processed and approved increased fourfold.

   Things between Sarasas and TRT got so bad that at one of Ektra's general, weekly foreign staff meetings the head of all foreign staff advised us that we may be called upon to join foreign staff of all other Sarasas schools in staging a protest demonstration at the Ministry of Education and possibly other ministries, a prospect that never developed but which reflected the heightened antagonism between Sarasas and the TRT government as it pertains to farang teachers.

   The hostility between Sarasas and the TRT government is palpable. It is real. Consequently, Sarasas ever increasingly has become, in a sense, personna non grata to the TRT government. Remember about two or three years ago when the global aids conference was held in Bangkok for a full week? Then PM Thaksin ordered all---ALL---schools in Bangkok closed, the rationale being that traffic congestion had to be alleviated during that week. Sarasas stated to its Thai teachers "Thaksin is not going to close our schools" (as translated to me by a senior farang official at Ektra school who been given the tranlation by a Thai English teacher). Well, as we know from the time, ALL schools in Bangkok were in fact closed for the week to include all of the Sarasas schools. But the "throwing down of the gauntlet" by Sarasas is another instance of the antagonism that exists between the TRT government and Sarasas.

   Consequently, Sarasas isn't getting much of a welcome, much less the ear, of the TRT government ministries. When more than a year ago Ektra tried to get me deported, writing on its official stationery, official school seal and all, Immi tossed the letter aside at the recommendation of my new school here in Satun province, a school which is one of several schools owned by a wealthy and powerful provincial family with heavyweight contacts in Bangkok. (That family recently engineered my private tutoring of English to the governor of Satun at his official residence.)

   Personally, I'd think Sarasas is presently enjoying the scuttlebut around Bangkok and Thailand that, because of the recent political upheaval and the ongoing uncertainty relative to the TRT government, the generals and other brass hats of the Thai military are getting restless and want to take charge again as in the "old days" That would of course result in the ejection of TRT (and other parties) from the government. That's my personal sense of Sarasas at the present.

[Tibeystew]

Hey, I just read all of these posts and I am here in response to the situation with Sarasas Romklao's ability and willingness to do what they feel is in the best interests of the Thai admin and NOT the teachers. We don't come overseas to teach and be treated like crap and even though it is obvious that a union would never work in this system, you can still draw a line between right and wrong. I was a part of the "rebellion" at Romklao to get the Thai staff to sway in our favor over the whole holiday ordeal. I helped create the petition, in fact my name was the first on the list. Out of 80 teachers, 70 or so signed the petition and the fact of the matter was that the Thai administration began to worry about their staff walking and that's just what many of us would have done. We weren't a bunch of misfit teachers who wanted more time off. Everyone who was involved in the petition and the letter to the staff was a good teacher who cared most about the students and themselves second. I'm just here in support of Smokinsa because he/she knows it was a good thing. An old saying....the squeaky wheel gets the oil and we got our's so....

[Pibthong]

Tibeystew,

   Congrats on what seems to be a superb precedent at Sarasas of ALL teachers uniting and getting agreement from the Sarasas administration at Romklao without all foreign teachers being lined up and shot (at least not yet!) Do tell us more, please...

    To everyone, please note in my Reply #131 on Aug 4th I mentioned that Sarasas probably would welcome a coup d' etat as it would get rid of the hated Thaksin and his TRT party (Take Riches Totally). I think Sarasas likely are among the most pleased by the coup. If so, I myself (while opposed to any coup d' etat on principle) would share in any joy Sarasas might have in seeing Thaksin in exile and investigations beginning against the Take Riches Totally (TRT) gang.

[traveler]

I think this is the thing that annoys most of us.  From my own point of view, I can put up with unprofessional colleagues and managers, slightly dodgy conditions, ethics I don't agree with - but when they try and screw you for money when you try to leave in a professional manner is just plain wrong.  Everybody who considers taking a job at any school should be confident that the contract will be honoured and all payments will be made.

I totally agree!  Most of us are able to tolerate the challenges or cultural differences working in this land, but when school officials do not want to pay us in full or honor the contract because we are leaving is not right.

[Uncle Che]

Here, here.

[Pibthong]

Traveler,
   It betrays the 3rd World attitude that is the worst aspect of working and living in a 3rd World country. That is, if a country is a "developing" one, it's working to shed its Old World ways. By not trying to do so, the country makes one use the term "3rd World" in describing its employers when those employers are people who won't pay for honest work, sincerely and professionally done and entirely due.

   As I've pointed out on this thread, Sarasas Ektra was straight with me concerning money. I gave my proper notice and the school responded properly. But, one only has to read this thread nevermind over a period of years know the people who worked there and left.     

[Pibthong]

   This thread is a hugely read thread. The only thread read more than this one is the BCC thread. Congrats to both schools, which between them have about 20,000 hits.

   A positive congrats to Global Mod samvimes, the TeflWatch Number 1 Mod, for initiating this thread.

[Krungsri]

They're also very large and prominent institutions.  BCC is a very old and established school with high status in the community.  The Sarasas affiliation, while only 42 years old, has 19 schools and an enrolment of around 50,000 students.  Sarasas schools have had to cope with staffing and managing their bilingual programs and cope with very rapid growth in schools and enrolments at the same time.  There's bound to have been some problems and some complaints as a result

[Pibthong]

Krungsri,
   You are the ONE foreign administrator at Sarasas Ektra School who is both intellectually and personally respectable. You and I have had many comprehensive dialogs over the years that include a broad range of serious and relevant subjects. I welcome this continuation, this timei n public, via your posts to TeflWatch. I alwlays look forward to reading and responding to your valued thoughts, views and experience.

   The other farang administrators at Sarasas Ektra School (and many other Thai schools) are disreputable characters. Indeed, one at Ektra is criminally insane. You can pronounce this statement by me to be perspective, or call it bias or standpoint, bent--whatever. You yourself well know that the particular criminally insane head of secondary is a malevolent person--you know because three years ago he unsuccessfully tried to fire both you and your (Thai) wife from Ektra. And for what reason? He doesn't like married couples working at Sarasas (or co-habitating couples). There are many other behaviours of this particular manager that I can cite (and which I have at the "Sarasas All" thread) in support of my assertion, but, as to you and your TeflWatch posts to this thread, I rest my case against this mad Ektra administrator.

   The HoS acts as a highly effective check on schools headed by Thais who accept such unsavory characters as their managers. Hall of Shame schools are hurting for foreign staff. Only a Hall of Shame can provide this kind of accountability and consequence that so severely impacts Thai owners who either are themves liars and cheats or who agree to accept the trade off of dealing with the devil in the terribily mistaken belief that the trade off constitutes and overall benefit. Some "sin bin" or time-out box for such owners is pathetically insufficient and inadequate.     

[Pibthong]

anyonefortennis,
   I accept your comments altho I know Krungsri can well speak for himself.

   My statement is indeed that Hall of Shame schools are "hurting" for teachers. That's "h-u-r-t-i-n-g". The meaning being that induction into the HoS has "put the hurt" on the inducted schools. As Global Moderator Nemesis has pointed out, changes are coming at TeflWatch to the Hall of Shame. The very question posted by the Admin Andy suggests that change is in the offing, does it not?

   As to my continued knowledge of Sarasas and Ektra, I continue to be in contact with students at Ektra school. I continue to be in contact with foreign teachers at Ektra school. I continue to be in contact with graduates of Ektra school. I see them regularly as they are friends, have been friends for years and I'm confident always will be friends. As you can see, I know the realities of Sarasas and Ektra school on an ongoing basis, right to the present.

   The TeflWatch Hall of Shame feature has had a profound and lasting impact on all schools whether or not a particular school has been inducted. I reiterate that the existence at TeflWatch of a HoS has introduced Thai owners of schools to the matters of accountability and of consequence. However, if TeflWatch wants to change the concept and application of making Thai school owners accountable and of their suffering the consequences of their actions, then that's up to TeflWatch.

   As to Ektra per se, most teachers have a bad experience at Ektra which is why there always has been a sharp turnover of foreign teachers, many of whom are excellently qualified, talented and experienced when hired. I myself had a particularly bad experience in my sixth and final year, that's all. I resigned with proper notice and left at the end of January 05.

   At one point, Krungsri and his (Thai) wife also had a very bad time from the same Ektra farang manager who in his madness set out after me shortly after he failed to get Krungsri and his wife fired. The mad farang manager didn't have or offer any good, valid or legitimate reason(s). Indeed, in either case the farang manager couldn't have a valid or legitimate reason as he already was suffering madness. Yes, I was bitten hard by the farang madman manager who, in an attempt to regain standing among students especially, suggested directly to me a while ago that I visit the school, which I will not do. I'll not give the legitimacy he and Ektra school so desperately seek by my reappearing at the school and by his being seen in my company at the school.

   However, I might consider visting Ektra school for the first time since leaving in Feburary '05 if you agree to accompany me and to meet with former foreign teachers, Ektra grads and present students so you can obtain some current information...

[Pibthong]

   Ahh, the same old wailing that there's always someone who wails...

[Krungsri]

Fair enough Phibthong.  Individual or particular complaints, whatever the general circumstances, may well be justified and should be investigated.  General policies and practices in any organisation are also open to criticism.  However, the phenomenal growth of the Sarasas affiliation over the past dozen years has placed management systems under a great deal of pressure.  In a more settled environment planning could proceed without anything like as much rush, but the affiliation has responded to demand in the community.  Recruiting and management of foreign staff - teachers and managers - has been a particular challenge, as you know.  Hopefully we're all learning and at least the major concerns are being resolved.  It's not always simple though.

[samvimes]

However, the phenomenal growth of the Sarasas affiliation over the past dozen years has placed management systems under a great deal of pressure.  In a more settled environment planning could proceed without anything like as much rush, but the affiliation has responded to demand in the community.  Recruiting and management of foreign staff - teachers and managers - has been a particular challenge

If things are challenging, for example recruiting, then there is no excuse not to hire people who can do it. If management systems are not up to the task then they should be supported and changed so that they are up to the task.

[Krungsri]

Our recruiter at Ektra is pretty good.  Very experienced and efficient.  However in 2005-6 he had a staff of 130 to cover at Yannawa and Sai Mai campuses).  In 2002-3 he had about 60.  Since then there've been an additional 5 new fast-growing Sarasas bilingual schools all hiring foreign staff as well.  Your suggestion is fine, but the challenge is substantial.

[Pibthong]

   I've advocated consistently and for a long time the hiring of professional managers who have a university degree in education administration. The more experienced such professionals are, the better. Do pardon my flippant tone above, Krungsri, but the tradition and custom of hiring long time employees who are loyal lapdogs begs for disorganization, disorder, confusion, disillusionment, unnecessary stress and avoidable departures of foreign staff and foreign managers--all of which only complicate and compound the problem. Attention to mass/quantity also requires attention to quality of education and personnel, does it not? The other day a foreign teacher at BCC actually referred to McSarasas! Until something's done to establish quality and to assure its continuation, the essentially exponential quantitative growth isn't worth a bag of sticky rice, is it?

[Mr Chips]

Something I do not understand is if the MOE believes it is necessary foe all teachers to have education degrees why don't they feel the need for all administrators to have similar relevant qualifications.

[Nemesis]

I split off a bunch of posts to Sour Gripes. Have fun.

 

[Mods-Rockers]

thanks Bomha.

[retiredstillteaching]

BCC just got moved into the "Caution Zone" which means BCC is tentatively out of the HoS but 'Sarasas All' remain deeply in the shit hole. Sarasas Affiliated Schools aren't ever going to change. They're incapable of it.

[Mods-Rockers]

Welcome back namtok!

[retiredstillteaching]

Thanks, M-R, just don't go getting too nostalgic or teary-eyed. It's good to see you're still kicking.

[Mods-Rockers]

In another place, the entity formally known as ‘Namtok’ AKA ‘Pibthong’ AKA ‘yanqui’ AKA ’oh, who gives a fcuk’ is yet again engaged in his two favorite pastimes; making himself look a fool, thus getting a new asshole torn, and trying to discredit a certain group of schools (one of them in particular). With his usual aplomb he is succeeding at making himself look a fool but failing quite badly in his main objective.
Following his usual pattern, and in a manner similar to that applied to Hero and myself on this board, ‘Namtok’ et al has started to accuse all those who disagree with his paradigm of being in the employ of a certain school group. Actually, and in his usual manner, he uses far more derogatory comments than merely employed (comments that can only be construed as being anti-teacher). This has led one poster over there, a poster who had in another thread supported ‘namtok. As a person but did not support the paradigm, to make the following post:
http://ajarnforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=8506&page=39

This is sheer paranoia Yanqui. I work for that school chain. I know two others posters from the board that work for them. One of them has posted on this thread but is not one of your current adversaries (though he probably agrees with them).
…
Get a grip man unless of course your intent is to troll.

As we all know, in a fit of pique, ‘namtok’ et all resigned from this forum makining some very derogatory statements against the board and its administration when he left, he then went on to make even more derogatory statements against the board in another place until that places admin zipped his lips. He was quite emphatic about his desire to leave and never return. I would sincerely hope that if he does return he is able to leave the past behind. He stated here and elsewhere his desire to out his episode with the Sarisas group behind him and look forward to the future, yet like a shaky member of the AA, one sniff of a barmaids apron and its back to the sauce!

[Mods-Rockers]

This post should not be construed as being in any way an advocacy for the Sarisas group, it is more to highlight what I perceive to be a flaw in the methodology used to induct the group into the HoS.

Both Sarasas and Bcc were inducted at around the same time, and leading up to their inductions they had both received a huge amount of flak on this forum and indeed on the three previous TSW’s. that’s not to say there were no supporters for the schools, there were, but when inducted the balance was tipped towards the detractors and thus the schools were, rightly or wrongly, inducted into the HoS.

Following induction, reports of wrongdoing by BCC fell off quite dramatically and whilst supporters like JJ took a fair amount of warranted flak from long time detractors, there was an appearance of a upswing within BCC. Slowly, over time new supporter started to appear, teachers such as Los-teacher who gave frank descriptions of the improvements and also areas where improvement was still warranted. They like JJ took flak but over time their arguments proved to hold true and this eventually led to BCC being elevated out of the gloom that is the HoS. Why did this new wave of support wait before coming out? I see two possible reasons; the first is that they were cautious and wanted to make sure that the improvements were not a lick of paint to hide the cracks but were in fact long-term improvements showing the schools commitment to enhance itself, secondly they may have had reservations about being on the receiving end of the ire felt by the schools detractors. Luckily BCC supporters do not regularly get called whores of the school by certain detractors, that privilege [sic] is reserved for supporters of the Sarasas group! Eventually, with no new reports off wrongdoing appearing, and a fair degree of support from present teachers, BCC was rightly elevated out of the Hos.

Sarasas now id a different kettle of fish, there are some 18? Schools in this group, and many, but not all, of them also received flak, the three main offenders being; Witead, Bang Bon and Ektra. It must be emphasized that certain schools in the group received no detracting posts and indeed some praise.

This is the reason why I used “rightly or wrongly” above, The whole group was inducted en masse, regardless of whether the individual member schools had received complaints or not. For all we know, some member schools may conduct themselves in an exemplary manner with regards to staff relations but they are tarred with the same brush that put the whole group into the HoS.

So why do we not hear about such schools you may ask!  Go back and look at the flak Los-Teacher et al took when the first started posting supportive posts about BCC, that is nothing compared to the verbal abuse meted out by one of the main Sarasas detractors, who in theory has now left this board never to return. Myself I am an old git and somewhat of a pachyderm, his insults are water off a ducks back, but I would imagine that many would be posters would ask themselves if it is worth the effort to post if they will merely receive such abhorrent abuse!

So where does this all lead? Well at the very least I would suggest that the HoS entry be mofified to state that not all Sarasas member schools have received complaints and advise prospective teachers to do more research. A better solution, to my mind, would be to actually name the member schools which did receive complaints and elevate thos complaint free schools out of the HoS  completely until such time, if ever they prove unworthy enough to be in the HoS!

[retiredstillteaching]

It's good to finally see you happy again, M-R. You'd been morose for too long of late. Your brain is beginning to stir again, perhaps even one day to percolate. You indeed are again kicking, but it's yourself if the arse.

You omitted the fact that Pibthong (myself previously at Teflwatch) had posted towards the end of last year at the BCC thread that new directions for BCC were reliably in the works, but that all Pibthong got for his accurate posts of the time was hollered at by some of the forum rats at this site (I use the term affectionately). One such rat, then a moderator, has since been reduced to "Teflwatcher" and remains one indefinitely.

I was rather surprised when I long ago saw that all of the Sarasas schools had been inducted into the Hall of Shame. I myself had been thinking of and expecting the induction of only one of the 16 to 19 Sarasas Affiliated Schools, namely Ektra, so I was somewhat taken by the breadth of the induction.

While I was certain that Ektra was indeed deserving of induction to the Teflwatch Hall of Shame, I wasn't quite sure the whole of SAS deserved induction. But I wasn't going to argue the point as the family of ownership is notoriously reactionary in its social and cultural outlook and anti-farang in its overall policies and in its everyday practices regarding foreign teachers at the Ektra Bilingual School.

Indeed, judging by the inaction at the "Sarasas All" thread at Teflwatch since the induction of all the SAS, it appears that SAS doesn't much care that the entire family and its billion Baht operation of upwards of 19 schools have become fixtures at the TeflWatch Hall of Shame.

As I noted in my above referenced post last year to the BCC thread at TeflWatch, BCC last year began to make the radical and dramatic changes that were necessary if BCC were ever to recover its ruptured reputation. BCC is in the process of climbing the high mountain that lies before it so that BCC can fully recover its good name and reputation. I wish BCC success in what appears to be genuine and effective endeavors in the right direction.

I have not, however, seen or heard of anything of the sort occurring at the whole of the Sarasas Affiliated Schools in any respect what so ever. If anything, things for foreign teachers at Sarasas Ektra Bilingual School have only become worse rather that better, or even neutral.

Maybe such a ractionary and anti-farang ownership deserves to have the whole of its billion Baht scheme of money machine schools be in the Teflwatch Hall of Shame. Or perhaps since the general induction of SAS there have been some improvements at some SAS schools while certain other schools didn't necessarily deserve induction. It could be argued either way, as far as I'm concerned. The one certainty in the matter is that the Sarasas Ektra Bilingual School is in the Hall of Shame because it deserves to be, regardless of other Sarasas Affiliated Schools. 

[retiredstillteaching]

The Sarasas Affiliated Schools' operatives, functionaries and plants at the various websites do stay abreadst of their activities apologizing for SAS and trying to discredit the SAS teachers and former teachers who speak openly to expose SAS at the various websites and their forums.

In this vien, do quickly re-read Teflwatcher Mods Rockers' staggering and slurred post of this date:

In another place, the entity formally known as ‘Namtok’ AKA ‘Pibthong’ AKA ‘yanqui’ AKA ’oh, who gives a fcuk’ is yet again engaged in his two favorite pastimes; making himself look a fool, thus getting a new asshole torn, and trying to discredit a certain group of schools (one of them in particular). With his usual aplomb he is succeeding at making himself look a fool but failing quite badly in his main objective.
Following his usual pattern, and in a manner similar to that applied to Hero and myself on this board, ‘Namtok’ et al has started to accuse all those who disagree with his paradigm of being in the employ of a certain school group. Actually, and in his usual manner, he uses far more derogatory comments than merely employed (comments that can only be construed as being anti-teacher). This has led one poster over there, a poster who had in another thread supported ‘namtok. As a person but did not support the paradigm, to make the following post:
http://ajarnforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=8506&page=39

This is sheer paranoia Yanqui. I work for that school chain. I know two others posters from the board that work for them. One of them has posted on this thread but is not one of your current adversaries (though he probably agrees with them).
…
Get a grip man unless of course your intent is to troll.

As we all know, in a fit of pique, ‘namtok’ et all resigned from this forum makining some very derogatory statements against the board and its administration when he left, he then went on to make even more derogatory statements against the board in another place until that places admin zipped his lips. He was quite emphatic about his desire to leave and never return. I would sincerely hope that if he does return he is able to leave the past behind. He stated here and elsewhere his desire to out his episode with the Sarisas group behind him and look forward to the future, yet like a shaky member of the AA, one sniff of a barmaids apron and its back to the sauce!

the opening   

I say, the Towne Drunk Himself just fell off the wagon.

[RobRoy]

What doyou really mean Retired, Pibthong, Yanqui, or whoever you fancy yourself to me....please explain a little further your comments on Mods. Lots of quotes, little real meat to your accusations. 

Are you saying he's a stooge or Sarasas?
Are you saying he supports people who defend Sarasas?
Do you think he might be trying to put blame on specific schools rather than a group of schools?
Have you thought of your next handle?

Just wondering....and perhaps we should start a new thread for trolls and their many handles.  That would be a kick...how about NoonRooster ( a rooster that sounds off at noon is useless)  Or perhaps RetiredButStillNotMakingSense, Or RobWhatTheHeckRoy. 

RR

[Mods-Rockers]

Like a rat crawling out the the sewer you have poked you nose into this forum yet again. I note with sadness, that you have yet again broken your word by this act, Surely you remember statements you made about leaving never to return whilst this forum was run by certain people, surely you remember spilling your billios trash on this forum and elsewhere regarding how this forum was being run. Yet you seem to find it difficult to stay away and even more difficult to make anything remorely resembling an apology to those you insulted! P{lease note that I ask this not for myself but for others you have insulted!
From my own perspective I have come to realize that you are vermin, vermin with no morals who finds it quite acceptable to pass on information he was given in confidence.

   It's good to finally see you happy again, M-R. You'd been morose for too long of late. Your brain is beginning to stir again, perhaps even one day to percolate. You indeed are again kicking, but it's yourself if the arse.

actually your appreciation of the situation is, with your usual alacrity completely wide of the mark. I was exceptionally happy when you left this forum as you were the blight or at least one of the blights that was ruining the place, I am somewhat saddened but not unduly surprised with your return, you have been taking far to much shite over there recently for that place to be hospitable to you anymore, so your return was anticipated.
As for kicking myself in the ass, sorry don’t see it!

You omitted the fact that Pibthong (myself previously at Teflwatch) had posted towards the end of last year at the BCC thread that new directions for BCC were reliably in the works, but that all Pibthong got for his accurate posts of the time was hollered at by some of the forum rats at this site (I use the term affectionately). One such rat, then a moderator, has since been reduced to "Teflwatcher" and remains one indefinitely.

Did I omit anything? Hardly, Unless you are admitting her that you are in the employ of BCC then your posts vis-� -vis BCC last year have about as much relevance as your posts vis-� -vis the Sarasas group seeing as they got rid of you some three years ago! Of course at that time it was believed that you were working there but I seem to remember that you strongly denied it! Actually as the admin pointed out I resigned such as to allow him to get rid of a few unwanted posters, I would point out that I have always been here whilst you had to leave! As to the “and remains one indefinitely” are you suddenly in a position to make such choices? Are you absolutely sure you are correct, maybe I will be back soon, maybe…

But I wasn't going to argue the point as the family of ownership is notoriously reactionary in its social and cultural outlook and anti-farang in its overall policies and in its everyday practices regarding foreign teachers

So I take it then that you are choosing to ignore the fact that this argument of yours was quite categorically rebutted when you brought it up elsewhere? That you were once again made to look a fool over your stance regarding the school to such an extent that you were begging to have the thread closed, locked and binned so as to hide your embarrassment. Tell me worm, you don’t mind if I call you worm do you? Its easier than trying to keep up with your ever changing user identities. Were you so adamant that you be removed completely before just to ensure that all those embarrassing thread where you made yourself look a complete and utter prat disappeared? IO strongly suspect that’s the case.

   Indeed, judging by the inaction at the "Sarasas All" thread at Teflwatch since the induction of all the SAS, it appears that SAS doesn't much care that the entire family and its billion Baht operation of upwards of 19 schools have become fixtures at the TeflWatch Hall of Shame.

So you find the concept that inaction just might point to the fact that matters are in hand, the inaction as you put it also means there has been little in the way of derogatory posts about the group by current or recently current teachers. Please note that in this context recently current means teachers who have work there within the last academic year not 3 years ago as is  your case. What has been said about some of the schools has been hearsay and to my knowledge there has been nothing recently from teacher who are there of have been there.

If anything, things for foreign teachers at Sarasas Ektra Bilingual School have only become worse rather that better, or even neutral.
 

Then why pray tell have the affected teachers not made posts about it? Oh yes we are meant to take everything you say as gospel right! There is no need for others to post,as Namtok et all will do it for them. The problem with that paradigm is that you have shown yourself, Namtok, to be such a complete stranger to anything remotely resembling the truth, along with the widespread belief that you are suffering from some sort of mental illness, that your word is less than worthless.

I do note that you failed to address the point I made in my previous post that possible posters regarding any upswing at the group or indeed just one member school may well have been put off posting because they did not see the need to be harangued by yourself with such nice description as whore, school asslickers and the like, and please try and deny that you regularly do this and I will gladly post links about it!

BTW welcome back, its always good to have a fool, such as yourself, inhouse as it were, it makes the rest of us look far better!

The Sarasas Affiliated Schools' operatives, functionaries and plants at the various websites do stay abreadst of their activities apologizing for SAS and trying to discredit the SAS teachers and former teachers who speak openly to expose SAS at the various websites and their forums.

In this vien, do quickly re-read Teflwatcher Mods Rockers' staggering and slurred post of this date:

the opening   

I say, the Towne Drunk Himself just fell off the wagon.

…
Well it certainly seems obvious that like a failing member of AA, Namtok cannot put the past behind him and lets it fester in his tiny peabrain!

[Rico]

Sarasas Schools enters the Caution Zone
      

Sarasas Schools has entered the Caution Zone and you know what that means, it has left the Hall of Shame. Obviously the school has a lot of work left to do and unlike Bangkok Christian College, they are not leaving because they have made obvious changes. They are leaving only because new complaints have not [...]
         

http://www.teflwatch.org/299/sarasas-schools-enters-the-caution-zone/