Topic: EF/English First Thailand

[Jon]

I?ll write this 3rd person and distort the name of the school slightly so as to protect the author from Thailand?s defamation laws. After you read, you?ll understand why, and I?m sure you?ll realise the identity.

I?d like to relate an experience at English F**** (EF) Chiang Mai, but first some background:

On January 19th 2005 The DoS (AKA Academic Director) of EF Chiang Mai discovered very irregular practices with the franchisee?s (EF?s representative) management of the franchise. On January 21st 2005 the DoS left the employ of EF?s representative, at the time he felt the departure was amicable.

On October 11th 2005 EF?s representative, after a long criminal investigation, was charged with criminal fraud at Mae Ping Police Station Chiang Mai. The charge book is open to the general public to confirm this information.

Subsequent to the DoS leaving EF:

1. EF?s representative didn't pay his DoS his last month's salary. The salary (minus annual leave) was later recovered through Chiang Mai Labour Court on 29th March 2005. Bank of Ayudhya Cheque No. 0025318, Account name xxx xxxxxxxx Co., Ltd. Account number 3190003002.

2. Soon after departure from EF a photocopy of the passport details of the DoS and a cover page with EF?s letterhead was faxed to many schools in the area he worked stating the DoS was no longer an employee of EF Chiang Mai. It was unsigned and didn't give the reason why the teacher had left.  This may have been an attempt to discredit the DoS and prevent him from finding future work in Chiang Mai.

3. To protect his reputation the DoS sent an Email to his former teachers explaining the circumstance of his sudden departure. EF?s representative used his brother's translation of the Email to attempt to have criminal defamation charges brought against the DoS (max penalty is PRISON) at Phu Ping Police Station Chiang Mai about late Feb. A recorded delivery summons to attend this police station as a suspect was received by the DoS. Subsequently the investigating office cancelled this meeting and no further contact has been attempted by the investigating officer.

4. In addition EF?s representative sued the DoS for 5 million baht damages, as an alleged result of this Email, at Chiang Mai Civil Court using as evidence his brother's translation. The summons was served to the DoS by an officer of the court the day the DoS walked out of the labour court with his cheque.

5. A translation, prepared by a recognised (Ministry of Foreign Affairs) translation company, for the DoS differs from the franchisee?s at key points in the translation.

6. During the criminal fraud investigation of EF?s representative, the investigating police officer sent a recorded delivery request to the office of the country director of EF requesting certain information related to this investigation. Up to now EF have not responded.

7. The DoS sent Emails to the country director and academic operations manager (AOM) of EF requesting an investigation in to the behaviour of its representative in Chiang Mai. There was no response other than a short statement from the AOM telling the DoS to direct all further correspondence to the country manager.

The legal actions have not been concluded.

The Thai Penal and Civil codes place the onus on the defendant in defamation cases to prove their innocence. In a defamation case the defendant must not only prove they wrote the truth but they must also show they had reason to publicly speak the truth. Recently in Thailand there have been high?profile defamation cases brought by the Prime Minister against his critics. He used the defamation laws to attempt to silence these critics.

I want to ask EF whether this behaviour by one of its representatives is indicative of their policy towards employees who discover fraud at an EF Franchise. Please respond and let the TEFL world know.

[Sadly-confused]

Well thats interesting and it certainly means that this company remains on my "wont work for doodoo" list

[willie mays]

I prefer English to Legalese, but I am reading again and again, sadly thinking I hate lawyers.

[Gonzo]

Regardless of the truth of any claims it is a warning to all to document all dealings and to ask for everything in writing. The DoS would not be the first ex-employee to be stitched up for the crimes of his ex-boss, especially in Thailand and not just in the TEFL game.

[Uncle Che]

Yeah, it looks like a lot of legalese to me as well. But franchisees are just that franchisees, each with it's own ownership and management so it is kind of hard to paint all EF branches with the same brush.

The defamation laws are the tricky ones. If I buy a car from Toyota and it is a piece of crap, then I should be able to tell the whole world. You could say something two ways:
"Che is a crazy idiot" or "I think Che is a crazy idiot". One is difficult to prove, the other is very easily to prove. They can't get in your mind and tell you what to think

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

This company has a bad rep...........which this seems to confirm.

[Uncle Che]

Well, one franchise does not make a bad reputation. Let's see some reports on other franchises in Thailand and then maybe we can make a judgement call on that.

I have heard reports on EF franchises that haven't been positive. But it seemed more of an employee problem than a company problem. Maybe we can get some other reports in here and come to more truth.

[admin]

Moderator Action on this thread:
-- Title changed to reflect a particular franchise rather than a company in general. This means other threads can be about other branches.
-- Name changed to a F****. I think people can understand just as easily who you mean.

[Jon]

Thanks for your comments.

I agree with Uncle Che that the actions of this franchisee do not necessarily reflect the policy of this company. However, what should be of concern to people is that the country manager never responded to any of my requests for an internal investigation after I discovered very suspicious behaviour within the franchise, and she never responded to a request from the fraud investigating officer at Mae Ping Police Station for information regarding the franchisee and his busines relationship with the plaintiff. She will be forced by each court to attend as a witness, so the querstions will be asked there. Nevertheless, the police feel there was still sufficient evidence to convict the accused of criminal fraud, hence the charge.

I'm going to email various branches/offices of EF and ask them to respond to this thread.

[Uncle Che]

Sounds like a good idea, Jon. I would like to see as many franchises post as is possible and I would like to see people post who have worked at the various branches as well.

[Jon]

An email was sent to all (except Chiang Mai and NakonSi Thammarat) of the EF branches in Thailand yesterday (26th). It was CCed to the country manager. Contact addresses can be found on their website. No contact address for Nakon Si Thammarat.

It contained:

the original post

a link to this site

an invitation to participate in this discussion

Please respond EF and explain or deny your actions.

[Jon]

Come on EF.

Most EF schools in Thailand, the Thai country director and the farang Academic Operations Manager for Thailand have been informed of this thread so why the silence???

Jon

[Johnny Rotten]

I heard this guy is also advertising an "English Programme" (exact words) provided by EF for academic year 2006/07 on boards around the city. Very few schools are allowed by the Ministry of Education to run EPs (so unauthorized schools call? their progams mep, english plus or bilingual) and as this school is a very small, poor and is just a community Buddhist school For K1 to P6 I think highly unlikely the MoE has approved it. He's charging parents 17000 baht/semester for it. I feel sorry for the parents who may be conned in to paying for this.

PM if you want the schools name.

[Bangkok Phil]

Come on EF.

Most EF schools in Thailand, the Thai country director and the farang Academic Operations Manager for Thailand have been informed of this thread so why the silence???

I've lost count of the number of times that EF have advertised for an academic director or a country manager. They seem to be positions that are empty more often than they are occupied. That could be the case right now.

[Jon]

Update - recently discovered

In Chiang Mai EF's franchisee's father is a partner/shareholder in a company that manufactures Raleigh bicycles from a factory in Rayong.
The previous country manager's brother's company sells lubricants to this factory.
This may explain the previous country manager's actions/relationship with the franchisee.


I understand the country manager (K. Ch*********) at the time of these events, has now left the company.

[Jon]

Update:

1. As part of the next process of the legal saga - March 7th the franchisee brother's translation was not accepted by the civil court. The case will be finally heard/investigated November 2007. The case depends on the translation, so very unlikely the defendent (former DoS) needs to worry. The door to compromise has been opened slightly, but the DoS feels that only vindication in the court room will satisfy him.

2. The former DoS has had contact with the EF person responsible for Thailand.

[CLAMP]

Beware this outfit.

Having worked? here for a number of months, things are clearly not what they should be.

Now it is understandable to put up with some crap in whatever workplace that you have the pleasure of landing in, however this place continues to get worse.

Firstly it is the general lack of resources available to the teachers. To actually purchase any relevant materials is like getting blood out of a stone.The use of the photocopier is almost seen as a crime - we are often told that we are using the machine too much. The photocopy police here guard the machine with avengence.

Communication is another problem - lessons are rearranged or changed and teachers find that there lessons have been changed on arrival or even canclled. There is never a reason for it, it just happens. If there are complaints the heavy handed memo's appear.

Regarding sickness, I quote, "it is unprofesional to call in sick". Apparently teachers now have to give 48 hours notice if they are going to be sick. I find this rather strange as no one can predict with any accuracy when he or she will be sick. In respect of this, the teacher who had been sick quite genuinley had phoned at the earliest opportunity, however because the "office staff" don't turn up to 8:30am the margin of being able to report sickness is very minimal. I am sure that parents of children would hardly be impressed with a teacher throwing up all over one of their children.

Work permits are often held - initially we need to take a photocopy and you can have it back. Myseriously these then appear to be locked away in the depths of the centre. Will you ever get to see it again? I can't answear that one yet.

Lesson reports are often censored by the owner - as they may be to negative! In fact one teacher recently was asked to sign a batch of reports that he hadn't written. He quite rightly refused to do this. The following week, the same teacher was then presented with a batch of reports. Now as the "admin staff" are not the brightest he decided to check before giving them out. Sure enough the same reports written, with his name on it and pp'd by the owner. He had already said that he would not have anything to do with the reports as he had only taken the class on 2 occassions before the completion of the course and could not verify what had been written. This was a prime example of the deceit in which this school operates.

There have been other occassions when pay has been late and when pay has been incorrect.

Teachers are blamed for the lack of students, however this no fault of there own. The majority of students continue their courses so numbers stay consistent. It is quite clear that the marketing plan or lack of it is one of the major reasons for limited expansion. English First seem to have a lack of desire to remain in Thailand, and with the closure of their head office in Bangkok and planned closures of some of their outposts it seems quite clear that this is a company in retreat. Having lost their operations manager becasue they treated him like shit the ship appears to be rather rudderless. This particular centre's idea of "target marketing" is to hand out a few leaflets at the BTS or otside Seacon.To me it's just a waste of paper - you only have to witness the amount of leaflets tossed back onto the streets.

The centre again now finds itself without a DOS- all to frequent here as any self respecting teacher will not put up with the continual interference from above. It is interesting to note that this centre now only has one full time teacher. The DOS leaves this week, and 4 more teachers are finishing, which will leave this establishment with only one full time and two part time teachers.

I am sure you get the idea of what I am saying. if you want to work in a diorganised shambles were then come over here.

[blackpanther]

Why's the DOS leaving?

Any specific reasons besides the ones you've listed?

[hero]

English First seem to have a lack of desire to remain in Thailand, and with the closure of their head office in Bangkok and planned closures of some of their outposts it seems quite clear that this is a company in retreat.

Where was the EF "Head Office" in Thailand?  EF are all franchises - they are sold to anyone who wants to use the brand.  They market these franchises in Thailand and many other countries. 

I don't work for EF, but I do know how they operate - the reason that they are in decline in Thailand is purely because they are not competitive.  The franchise rights are very expensive, the indusrty in Thailand is so competitive that EF franchises simply cannot compete on price in the most profitable markets!  I should say that some EF franchises do seem to be able to make a good return though

Please don't think I'm defending them or anything - I don't see that there is anything to defend.  The way EF Seacon Square is run is down to the franchise owner.

[CLAMP]

English First seem to have a lack of desire to remain in Thailand, and with the closure of their head office in Bangkok and planned closures of some of their outposts it seems quite clear that this is a company in retreat.

Where was the EF "Head Office" in Thailand?? EF are all franchises - they are sold to anyone who wants to use the brand.? They market these franchises in Thailand and many other countries.?

I don't work for EF, but I do know how they operate - the reason that they are in decline in Thailand is purely because they are not competitive.? The franchise rights are very expensive, the indusrty in Thailand is so competitive that EF franchises simply cannot compete on price in the most profitable markets!? I should say that some EF franchises do seem to be able to make a good return though

Please don't think I'm defending them or anything - I don't see that there is anything to defend.? The way EF Seacon Square is run is down to the franchise owner.

I can undersatnd what you are trying to say. However, yes EF do have a Coutry head office in Bangkok. They have been on the top floor of Emporium building for some time. I know the Country Operations manager, who has since left the company about two months ago, as basically EF have been screwing oer the franchise holders in a number of ways. No although I have some gripes in respect of SS, the general attitude towards the franchises by EF has been particularly disturbing. They have been cast out to drift by the organisation, and promises that were made by EF to the franchises have not been kept. I think that one  of the reasons that things are going a little off course is that franchises are becoming disenchanted. With the operations manager not being replaced they are now doing most of the management side of things from Indonesia, so I think that suggests that they won't be in Thailand for much longer. Yes I agree that the franchises are not cheap, and on the whole some of the centres are not well located - in respect of competiveness, some more creative thinking in that area would help.

I have to say that although at times the School here is run like a circus - the owner on most occassions is a likeable person - it's just the interfering etc....and the unhelpful admin staff, and the one full time teacher left.

I am sure that the DOS will post in the coming days in respect of his departure. It is a shame that he is going, as those that are remaining will have to put up with the full time plonker (teacher) who will try to assume some degree of importance. More of that another time.

[hero]

the general attitude towards the franchises by EF has been particularly disturbing. They have been cast out to drift by the organisation, and promises that were made by EF to the franchises have not been kept

Yes, I too have heard this.  It seems to happen a lot in a Thailand, in other industries too.  Thai mentality tells them that if they buy a nice shiny franchise that costs a lot they just have to sit back and count the cash.  Unscrupulous marketeers are very quick to exploit such delusions.  I'm sure EF are no exception!

[CLAMP]

Yes, you are right - there is a degree of miss selling on the part of the Franchise and at times franchise holders believe that the money will just roll on in.

My understanding is that they will close down all of there schools outside of BKK in the coming months, and then reduce the schools in Bangkok. I do actually have some sympathy for the franchise holders as they have been taking some shit from EF. There is a particularly interesting e-mail floating around in the cyber system locked away in an e-mail account, which basically states that the franchise holders can go and get fucked. I think it originated in Indonesia from their main office. But again I can't confirm this.

I think that the general ill will eminating from the top has trickled down and has caused a degree of disenchantment, which in the end always filters down to the teachers.

[CLAMP]

Maybe we could change the thread title to EF in general?

[Uncle Che]

The topics EF Chiang Mai and EF Seacon Square have been combined to one topic, any EF related posts should go into this thread.

[zippy]

Come on EF.

Most EF schools in Thailand, the Thai country director and the farang Academic Operations Manager for Thailand have been informed of this thread so why the silence???

Jon

Jon it will be difficult for the Farang operations manager to reply as he told EF to go fudge themselves. Seems that he wasn't to impressed with some of there unpleasant practices either.

As you probably know the Country manager is now based in Indonesia from my understanding - and they don't really give much of a shit about the franchise's as they are just collecting their money. Don't think they will be to worried about what happens to the centre's as it seems to be their plan to cast them out on their own.

[zippy]

Thanks to CLAMP -for his general overview. I don't think that this is the worst place to work, just a little disorganised and in particular there is a fairly odious individual that works there who does a significant amount of shit stirring in the centre, which in turn makes it difficult for the DOS and the other teachers.

Yes, I was the one with the dodgy reports to sign, however this has been rectified and I received a sincere apology from the owner. ISo in that respect I won't complain to much.

[Johnny Rotten]

Yes, you are right - there is a degree of miss selling on the part of the Franchise and at times franchise holders believe that the money will just roll on in.

My understanding is that they will close down all of there schools outside of BKK in the coming months, and then reduce the schools in Bangkok. I do actually have some sympathy for the franchise holders as they have been taking some shit from EF. There is a particularly interesting e-mail floating around in the cyber system locked away in an e-mail account, which basically states that the franchise holders can go and get fucked. I think it originated in Indonesia from their main office. But again I can't confirm this.

I think that the general ill will eminating from the top has trickled down and has caused a degree of disenchantment, which in the end always filters down to the teachers.

Do you know which schools outside of BK in particular and what criteria are they using to select the schools to close and why EF are taking this hardline?

There's Hat Yai, Nakhon si Thammarat and Chiang Mai.


I know a few EF teachers and have enough knowledge about franchising in Thailand to know that the franchisee often gets shafted - franchising comes under civil law here and there are no specific laws to protect a franchisee as there would be in the west.

[hero]

I removed a couple of initials (not names) from the above thread in line with the rules.  If you guys want to discuss people by their names, that's fine - just do it in a PM!

Thanks

[MrQ]

Just to make a point on the WP front.

The WP  belongs to the school, not to the person. So it is quite accebable for the school to keep it.

I know I let my school keep mine. It's not as if you ever have to use it anyway.

correct me if I am wrong somebody

[samvimes]

Sorry Mr Q, it might be issued to because of the school but it belongs to you. You are supposed to carry it with you and show it on demand, not the school.

You need it to get a mobile phone number contract, register for UBC, open a bank account in some places, get broadband internet installed at home, there are many cases where it is needed.

The teachers's licence has two parts, one the teacher is supposed to have and the other for the school to keep; yet some schools insist on keeping the whole document.

Holding  back documents like work permits and teaching licences (contracts, degrees, passports etc.)  is extremely dubious and I would not trust a school that deemed it necessary to do this as a school that does this tries to maintain a sort of leverage over its employees and is not one that is going to have good working relationships with its staff.

[Jon]

Update:

1. As part of the next process of the legal saga - March 7th the franchisee brother's translation was not accepted by the civil court. The case will be finally heard/investigated November 2007. The case depends on the translation, so very unlikely the defendent (former DoS) needs to worry. The door to compromise has been opened slightly, but the DoS feels that only vindication in the court room will satisfy him.

2. The former DoS has had contact with the EF person responsible for Thailand.

UPDATE ref.: civil action by the Chiang Mai EF franchisee/representative against a former EF DoS.

Friday April 28th? - BK South civil court to hear the testimony of 4 BK based witnesses for the plaintiff (EF representative).

The Chiang Mai EF representative included them on the witness list he had? presented to Chiang Mai civill court and which was accepted by the presiding judge.The EF representative is responsible for bringing them to court to give testimony on his behalf. 3 witnesses are EF management and 1 is a former EF country manager. None of the 4 witnesses attended court. The court has set another date for their attendance.

All witnesses need to have been interviewed by the conclusion date of this case - November 2007. Until then I will update the board on all actions of EF's representative in Chiang Mai.

[Johnny Rotten]

Fuking outrageous what EF are doing with their ex-teachers. Guys, there must be authorities in countries where EF operate where you can direct your information. I'm sure British authorities would be pissed off at their behaviour. What about newspapers? surely this is a good story for them???

[Johnny Rotten]

Despite the charge of fraud Chiang Mai's EF guy is doing ok - new contract at Regina Coeli College.

[Jon]

A current update to this can be read in EF Chiang Mai's entry in the Hall of Shame.

http://www.teflwatch.org/2006/07/03/ef-chiang-mai-enters-the-hall-of-shame/

[Jon]

Update

EF Chiang Mai Huay Kaew has been closed 

There's a big padlock on the door and a sign on the door that says 'closed for renovation'. No renovation going on however. The 'closed for renovation' sign is often used by business owners who have been forced to close but don't want to lose face. It's assumed that he didn't pay his rent, but that can't be confirmed yet.

He has told people who have told people who have told me that he will reopen EF in another location in a few months. Hardly likely as he will lose his investment in Huay Kaew and will need to invest substantially in a new school - unnecessarily so. Plus EF will need to approve the new school. Again another lie (?) to save face and avoid creditors methinks. He's still using the EF brand in various schools around Chiang Mai.

Over to you EF if you don't want your brand used and abused.

 

[Jon]

It can be confirmed now.

He hadn't paid his landlord for electricity for the last 7 months and he hadn't paid his rent for the last 2 months.

[wake]

Hello folks,

Is EF the same as E+ ?  I see a building in my town that was E+ for about six months then, overnight, the sign was changed to a green "E World" sign.

Just wondering.

w.

[Uncle Che]

probably not, I don't know if E+ is the same as English Plus. English Plus is a very infamous chain.

[Ronaldo]

E+ is the same outfit as English Plus and as pointed out by Uncle Che has it's own notoriety, it does however have nothing to do with English First (EF), which of course has its own problems.

[Mods-Rockers]

Wake its not unusual for E+ schools to go out of business, The business plan Khun M sells to the owners is tottally unviable and normally within a year they go bankrupt allowing Khun M to find another mug oops sorry clients to buy another franchise.

[hero]

See here:

http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/index.php/topic,176.msg4442.html#msg4442

[Jon]

UPDATE
A few weeks ago people from EF came to the building where EF is located in Chiang Mai and spoke to the building owner. The EF people said they were from Singapore (unlikely) but were probably the Indonesians who are responsible for EF operations in Thailand. The owner of the building gave them very Thai-style ambiguous information. They were looking for their franchisee!

I heard people visited some of the outside EF contracts in Chiang Mai today and explained to the schools that EF Chiang Mai is now under new management. They could have been genuine EF people or they may have been 'represenatives' of the previous franchisee because this may be an attempt to distance himself from the school if salaries aren't paid at the end of this month.

[Jon]

A bilingual magazine in Chiang Mai named Compass (www.compasscm.com) recently published an advertisment for a NEW LANGUAGE SCHOOL in Chiang Mai from the 'EF' team. 'EF' is written in Thai ("อีเอฟ"), maybe so that I or EF management in Thailand (Indonesians) won't be able to read.

The 'new' school has
a contact number: 0-****-**** (no landline)
a website address: www.speak-more.com (under construction)
the address is not specific but gives the road name 'Sirimuangklajarn'

This is a new language school brought to you by the franchisee of EF in Chiang Mai. Unfortunately according to his contract with EF he's not allowed to open a competing business within a stated time period even after he ends his contract with EF. I feel there's possibly a chance (sarcastic remark!) he's taking the piss out of EF and their contract with him.

Mod edit: Please no phone number, if someone wants the number, they can PM Jon.

[DerringDo]

EF SS was a strange place to work I must confess.

If you ever had a problem outside of working hours you couldn't contact the centre owner for any reason. It seemed that she gave an unused number because it was ALWAYS turned off. She insisted on having your mobile phone number and then gave it to the front desk who would call at the drop of a hat to ask about cover even though you had made a specific request that it wasn't to be used for work AT ALL.

The teaching staff were great to work with although the chap who fell asleep in class and the native  French speaking wannabe DOS were a little strange. I guess we all have our idiosyncracies. I would work with the foreign teaching staff again though as it was good fun, and worth the experience to meet them. The DOS who left was worth his weight in gold.

Materials were very hard to come by, especially quality paper as opposed to the cheapest brand of paper and woe betide you if you dared ask for some card. This was in direct opposition to all the promises at the interview with the pleasant owner. The supplementary materials are extremely poor and old. When I was there, there was a TV and DVD/VCD that the owner wanted you to use and then mysteriously didn't work on the day of use because "You didn't book it". Neither did anyone else . I didn't get to the bottom of it, because it would have been a waste of time as the owner wasn't there, only the lady who talks to her friends on MSN for 8hrs a day. The rest of the staff are vacant and so quite pleasant, but damn they eat smelly food right outside the teachers' room.

The students were great especially the astronauts who stared at the ceiling and dreamt of being elsewhere. Classes are manageable and the students are very friendly especially the one who called one teacher "pig big"  . There are a variety of levels in any given class just like other schools.

Not a bad experience overall just an owner I wouldn't want to work for again.

[Ronaldo]

Being the DOS who left and who was "worth his weight in gold"  requires me to at least provide a few lines in support of DerringDo's post, which is a well balanced description of a typical EF branch.

 

Fundamentally this branch has so much going for it, location, site, staff etc... but alas suffers from a typically anal-retentive owner who cannot for one second relinquish any power or decision making authority whatsoever to anyone, unfortunately this stiffles any efforts by all of the staff to provide a quality educational product to it's customers.

The cheek of it, is that she then complains that revenues are down and that is the fault of the teacher's, who have to resort 'make and mend' techniques to get through the day.

So another perfectly good business will trundle along and under perform in the franchisee heaven that Thailand's private edutainment system is, whilst kids gaze at the ceiling and their parents sit outside and stare at you through the plate glass.

Hilarious

[Aitchbomb]

Plus ca change...

EF franchisees do what they want 'cos they were misinformed at the get go, sold something they didnt understand, unsupported, and then given the shaft when they complained. I don't blame them, but it doesnt do the students any good.

How many EFs are left in Thailand? It was 12 when I left...

[Jon]

Plus ca change...

EF franchisees do what they want 'cos they were misinformed at the get go, sold something they didnt understand, unsupported, and then given the shaft when they complained. I don't blame them, but it doesnt do the students any good.

How many EFs are left in Thailand? It was 12 when I left...

Down to 6 now. I believe the current Indonesian management closed a few earlier this year (Ready to sell again?) and EF Chiang Mai was locked out by his landlord.

This link will take you to their website:

http://www.englishfirst.co.th/englishfirst/schools/schoolname/default.aspx

[Jon]

update on the court case

EF's representative tried to withdraw the case before the investigation of evidence and witnesses begun. This was blocked. EF's representative presented to court documents he said were the contracts between EF and his (the one HE sold to a 3rd party) franchise. The document was dated June 2004; however the company named as the franchisee didn't exist until October 2004. Of course there will be a criminal complaint made but the defendant (former EF DOS) wants to use the subpoena powers of this court to obtain more documents. EF's representative is craping himself. He could still walk away from the case but then he can be sued more easily for bringing a false case against the former DOS.

Update on EF in Chiang Mai

EF’s representative signed a termination of franchise contract with EF on October 15th 2006 which took affect November 1st 2006. On October 15th EF’s representative wasn’t authorized to terminate the contract as he had already sold the owning company (DSS Educated Co. Ltd.) of the franchise to a 4th party. This leaves the door open to this 4th party to sue EF for damages.

In addition the EF brand is being used in Chaing Mai still - this is without the authority of EF. For example, Regina Coeli School, Pimandek School plus some others.

Fun fun fun!

[orientalphoenix]

Would "EF's representative" be this guy "K...."?  I'm still working at P... school , as are two other Tefl teachers, under the supposed auspices of EF, until the end of this term. P... school say they've had a lot of problems with EF (presumably K...who is the guy who comes to the school and who emails us from outside Thailand --Indonesia??- concerning pay etc), and K... says he's had a lot of problems with P... school.  The two other teachers have been offered contracts at the school , but full time, not part time, and at what might be reduced wages. K... ( if indeed it is him...) states that he is going to leave EF in March as he is fed up with them and seems to have plans to start up again on his own in May. He says that he has three schools already who will need teachers, and has asked me to work for him....................hmmmmmmm. Any comments, further information, etc, would be very much appreciated.

Glad I found this thread, it's difficult to make decisions unless one has the full picture!

orientalphoenix

[Jon]

the guy's name is Thammasak (maybe someone calls him Khun Thammasak) hence the K

the country manager was/is an Indonesian woman named Mimi

the regional manager (Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia) is an Indonesian woman named Arleta

The only school he's connected to that begins with P is Pimandek - at the beginning of this academic year he planned to open an EP at this school, unfortunately this is illegal without the approval of the MoE. I hope my postings on this board had some contribution to the fact they quickly dropped/forgot this acronym.

This is all in CM though.

[orientalphoenix]

Jon -- thanks for your reply --- that's helpful stuff. I'll keep posting as this develops. Fascinating........

orientalphoenix

[Jon]

UPDATE

After 2 years a copy of a certain contract from EF in Bangkok has finally been obtained. It required a court subpoena eventually after a police letter and a personal request to EF had been refused. It now will be clear to Chiang Mai Civil Court that the contract used by EF’s representative to base his case to sue the former DOS is fake/false. The next court date is May 15th and then it will be announced to the court.

An interesting aside to this is that EF Bangkok also sent to Chiang Mai Civil Court a copy of their franchise contract termination document between EF’s representative’s company and EF. It is dated October 15th, 2006. However, at this time EF’s representative had already sold his company and was not authorized to sign any termination for the EF franchise in Chiang Mai. I guess the new owners are quite entitled to sue EF; and maybe EF’s signatories, to that contract, may face criminal action as they have terminated a franchise without the owner's consent or knowledge.

[Jon]

The latest court date was postponed from the 15th May to 4th September. This was EF's Representative's last opportunity to interview witnesses in Bangkok before the case returns to CM. The defence cannot introduce evidence or interview its own witnesses until the plaintiff finishes, but must finish its own investigation before November 2007.

The ex-country manager (Thai female) of EF was interviewed by the plaintiff's solicitor. She contradicted the contract EF previously provided to the court by stating that there was a verbal contract between EF and EF's representative in CM that overrode the actual paper contract (signed and stamped by EF). In total she contradicted 5 contracts and documents presented to the court by the defendant (ex-EF DOS) by saying either there was a verbal contract that overrode the contract, or that she had never seen the document before. She sounded silly! It's strongly believed that the brother of the ex-country manager has a company that sells lubricants to the EF Chiang Mai representative's father's bicycle manufacturing company!

The defendant has subpoenaed the current EF management to attend court on September 17th and answer questions. I will report the results.

[bluefalang]

very interesting. thanks for the update.

[Jon]

No representative of EF's Thai Head Office responded to the supboena. A message was sent to the court stating that the responsible person(s) were not in the country.

Another supboena will be sent.

[Aitchbomb]

Any update on this yet? I'd hate to see English farce get away with it.

[zippy]

No representative of EF's Thai Head Office responded to the supboena. A message was sent to the court stating that the responsible person(s) were not in the country.

Another supboena will be sent.

All of the responsible people have either left the company or are  now based in Indonesia if I am not mistaken

[Jon]

This is what my solicitor told me:

This is what my solicitor told me:

There are levels/stages of sopboena. The first one that EF responded to with a dismissive message to the court is more of a request. If this is unsuccessful, the court will issue a subpoena that insists and not invites. If this subpoena isn't responded to, the court will issue an arrest warrant for any persons found at the registered office. EF is a registered business in Thailand and the subpoena is sent to their registered office, it requests the person responsible to attend court. It can be anyone. The excuse 'not in the country' won't work. The next date is set for mid October.

I'll let you know what happens.

[Jon]

October 16th

EF sent a Thai female to court to answer the subpoena. She announced she is responsible for accounts and documents for EF Thailand.

She confirmed to the court that there has only ever been one contract (terminated 12 months ago) between EF and their Chiang Mai franchisee.

The Chiang Mai franchisee submitted to the court two other contracts:

1) Himself and EF

2) A company he said he owned and EF. This company hadn't been set up at the time it was supposed to be effective and is the centre of the only fraud charge against him so far. There will be more.

EF stated clearly both contracts never existed.

EF's previous country manager (see Post from Sept 8th) said they did.

It appears the current EF management is more honest than their previous country manager.

EF's franchisee again said to the court he would like to withdraw the case as a gift to the King.

The objective is to use this case, and the opportunity it gives to interview witnesses and view documents, to provide the ammunition needed to nail this bastard.

The case now returns to CM and the investigation should be concluded by late November

[retiredstillteaching]

Izzis this the same English First that is the Official English Language Provider to the 2008 Beijing Olympics, the same EF that operates in China as well as in some other countries?

[Jon]

2 whole weeks and the case still has not finished.

Tuesday to Friday of week 1 EF’s franchisee gave his testimony. He had no witnesses and no documents to support his story. God it was boring. He even started crying a few times.

Tuesday to Friday of week 2 the former DOS gave his testimony. He had 3 witnesses (all Thai) plus himself. A long list of documents was presented to support his case. Time ran out before he could be cross examined by the plaintiff’s solicitor. Therefore the case has been postponed to March.

A few funny occurrences:

The judge still wishes the case to be compromised and told the defendant (former EF DOS) that he should consider that the reason he is in court is because of past karma from this or a previous life. Interesting comment from a judge!

EF’s representative’s girlfriend sat through the court proceedings busily writing in a notebook the same word over and over again. Later I was told this was a black magic spell against me.

EF’s representative also told the court that the former EF DOS was writing a diary of his actions on the internet. He made a complaint to the court, but the judge said irrelevant to this case and he would need to make a separate complaint. So, he reads this!

[Topper]

Thanks for the update!

Keep them coming and keep up the fight!

[bomha]

Jon, do you think your opponent will take the judge's advice and offer to compromise?  Are you willing to strike a deal?

[Jon]

Not willing to strike a deal at this stage. During a previous compromise meeting he offered a decent amount of cash to allow himself to withdraw. I think he didn't want the investigation to begin. It has begun and it's now probably too late for him to withdraw because the proverbial cat is out of the bag. When EF's head office discovered he had sued a former teacher for defamation a couple of years back, they did pressure him to withdraw then, but the DOS refused.

The only way the DOS can obtain sufficient evidence to properly punish EF's representative is to use this court case to subpoena contracts/documents and witnesses.