Topic: Amerithai Education International, Suratthani

[Alliecat]

Beware of Amerithai!

Surat Thani is a wonderful place to live and work as it is close to the islands in the gulf of Thailand and the Adaman coast BUT steer clear of Amerithai Education International.? My husband and accepted jobs here in Surat Thani while we were still job hunting in Bangkok.? We did an over the phone interview and he told us he was a 28 year old American from Ohio who had started a successful school employing teachers for in-house classes and within the public schools around town.? We came down to check it out and meet and decide from there.? Well, upon meeting **name removed** we were a little hesitant to sign a contract because his manner was somewhat high strung, slightly abraisive and outrightly verbally abusive towards his girlfriend.? It was also quite obvious he liked to tell tales of the tallest sort (about members of staff, too!).? ?However, we really liked the area and we are here to teach and explore not to become best friends with our boss, so we decided to go against our first impression and accept.? We started december 1st, 2005.

For the first two weeks things were on the up and up for the most part although I was REALLY struggling with my classes (5 hours a day at a public school with classes of 55-60 6year olds and no Thai assistant - I had no voice left at the end of the first week).? I had requested some help or a few classes of older kids just to make the day a little less stressfull and I was promised both.?

When we were not paid with the rest of the teachers on the 15th of December we came to **name removed** and he said he always held back the first two weeks pay until contract completion or after notice was given and the month was served.? We had to wait until after Xmas to receive HALF of the months pay.? Big deal?? It gets worse.

By the end of six weeks I had still received no help with my class situation as none of the other teachers, including **name removed** wanted to trade older better behaved kids for my guys and I'd had just about enough of **name removed**'s tall tales and prejudice comments about Thais and whatever else.? Maybe another teacher would not have minded these classes but I left good money in Korea to TEACH in a country I like better and 60 kids is entertaining not teaching.? Each to his own.? My husband was quite happy at
the school he'd been placed at (30 kids to a class ages 8-13) so we dercided that I would respectfully tender my two weeks in keeping with the terms of the contract and then I would look for something else.
I gave notice? on the 18th of January.

My husband and I celebrated our one year anniversary on the 22nd of January of this year and everyone at Amerithai knew we were heading to Koh Phangan? to celebrate it at a romantic spot in Ban Tai.? Well oddly enough the owner scheduled a mandatory staff meeting on Sunday January 22nd.? All those "not in attendance would be terminated".? We were 2 of 5 teachers not present and yet we were the only teachers terminated.? Under our contract both employee and employer were obligated to give 2 weeks if the other party was not in breech of contract, and there was nothing in the contract about mandatory staff meetings on Sundays, but we were told never to come back.?

He was also thoughful enough to call our landlord and try to have us evicted!? The landlord, a kindly Thai gentleman thought that was really funny, thank goodness!

 But what about our money?

There was the matter of the first two weeks that he held back and a matter of 19/31 days of a 24000B/month salary.? He refused to pay us.? We were advised to go to the tourist police so we did.?

This is the part where we admit we were REALLY naive...stupid and under-researched.

Though they were very sympathetic, the police could do very little to help us as we were still in Thailand on tourist visas and really we had been working illegally.? I happily told the police that? "Oh, yes our paper work is in processing but we're still on our three month probation until the end of February."? Huh?? **name removed**? told us that it was standard procedure to put teachers on probation for 3 months before getting the non-immigrant "B" , teacher's license, and work permit? because of the expense to the employer if it didn't work out.? He also said that as long as we had signed a contract and the proper papers were filled out? and ready if asked to be seen that we were OK.? The other teachers told us that it was the same for them so we didn't really question this.? Now I see who the 3 months probation benefits!? (**Name removed** took taxes and "Employee Savings Fund Payments" off our earnings despite the fact we were not registered!)

We were able to retrieve only a fraction of what was owed to us because he had lent us a few things for our home and the police used this as a bargining chip, thank them!?

A few days later a dear friend and co-worker met the same fate as us but this time the police made a trip down to the school as it was starting to seem REALLY fishy.? Especially after she told them about the? "life experience degrees " from Warren Harding Online University ( the bosses dad in Ohio answering a phone and the boss printing fake degrees!) that Amerithai offers to SELL to the teacher they hire without proper qualifications.? My friend received none of the money that she was owed despite the gallant efforts on the part of the tourist police who were none to impressed with Mr. **name removed**'s smug attitude or his refusal to remove an American flag he was flying ouside the school.

I have personally spoken with 3 other teacher who came before us and add to that my husband, friend and I makes 6 people with the same complaints about the same school and it's owner.? Who knows what has gone down over the last 3 years that he's been in business!

Interesting final development...A few days ago a met his now former head teacher and biggest supporter on the street.? He and his wife are opening a guesthouse in town.? I asked him how he will balance that with his very demanding job at Amerithai and he smiled before telling me how he had just quit.? ?He is to date still owed money.

Apparently **name removed** used what little money the school had left to pay their teachers and rent(business gets slow in a small town when you have a bad reputation) and used it to return to America for a trip.? Now no one is sure when or even if the owner will return and everything has been left for his poor girlfriend to deal with!? What a gentleman.? Of the few teachers remaining, according to the former head teacher, some have been working the last 6 weeks without pay!?

I am compelled to write this daunting tale because I would hate for anyone to suffer what we did.? We spent all our savings waiting for the new semester to start and for steady work to become available.? We love Surat Thani but we almost had to leave town , our home, and all the things we bought for it because Amerithai's rep is so bad that no one wants to touch you after you've worked for them...they're afraid Mr.**name removed** will cause trouble out of revenge and spite if they hire you!?

Another teacher quit and went to work for Super English and Amerithai's owner called the police to report that this teacher had hit a child which was of course not true and no child came forward but the teacher said it was pretty scary being arrested and questioned.? He was later let go by Super English because they couldn't deal with things like that disrupting the school even though they knew they were losing a great teacher.

A couple of weeks ago someone threw a rock through the front window of Amerithai and that must have taken some calculation because there is quite a gate in front of the property.? Now that may not have had anything to do with anything but it makes you wonder.

Amerithai has an ad on Ajarn right now offering 4 teaching positions to individuals whose attitudes are "more important than experience or qualifications". Hmm...I wonder why?? Shame on them!

[hero]

Continue by all means - no names though please (It's in the rules y'know )

[Uncle Che]

I need to make a few phone calls on this to be sure, but I remember hearing similar complaints about this agency.

[Alliecat]

 You might even try the tourist police themselves as they are really helpful.? The chief handled our cases personally and his name is Kong.? ?All statements taken by the Surat Thani tourist police have been sent to the US embassy in Bangkok.?

[Bangkok Phil]

Hi Allie cat,

I know nothing about the owner of Amerithai apart from the small amount of e-mail correspondence that he and I have had and the fact that he once did an ajarn.com hotseat interview (it's still there on-line for those who want to read it)

You contacted me a while back with the account of your story Allie (similar to the above or the same as - sorry I really can't remember it all) and I did forward your complaints to the owner himself. Credit where it's due but he did reply to me with a VERY detailed account of his side of the story. Whether it's true or not I don't know? - I'm not taking sides here - but he certainly went to a lot of trouble with his reply. Unfortunately the reply has long since been deleted so you'll have to take my word I'm afraid. Hopefully the school owner kept a copy and he can post it on here if and when he ever returns to Thailand.

My purpose for contacting the owner of Amerithai initially on your behalf was because they are fairly regular advertisers on the ajarn board and the owner, as I've said already, has an ajarn hot-seat interview on-line.

You state in your post
"I am compelled to write this daunting tale because I would hate for anyone to suffer what we did.  We spent all our savings waiting for the new semester to start and for steady work to become available"

Forgive me if I'm a little hazy here but I seem to remember from the owner of Amerithai's detailed reply that you actually jumped ship (for want of a better expression) and got another job. Didn't the owner of the new school in fact accompany you to the police station when all the negotiation and complaining was going on? It's just something that stuck in my mind.

[hero]

She gave two weeks notice, was dismissed four days later and is still owed money!  Seems her husband was dismissed for being her husband and is still owed money.

he certainly went to a lot of trouble with his reply

 

Didn't the owner of the new school in fact accompany you to the police station when all the negotiation and complaining was going on?

Even if true, it doesn't really change the bottom line, does it?  He's in America and hasn't paid his staff!

[hero]

I should add that it seems to be par for the course here that when an employee/employer relationship breaks down, then the employee is left out of pocket.  Whatever the dispute that arises and no matter how begrudgingly any work was carried out, people should be paid for the work they have done.  The fact that it seems to be a way of life for Thai people doesn't make it right, while in this light one can understand (but not forgive) Thai bosses' atitudes here, from farang management I reckon it's very low - it very raraely happens back at home, even in the black market!

So, Mr **name removed** from Amerithai Education International, it appears that there may be another side to this story, care to come here and explain?

[Alliecat]

I'm sure Amerithai's owner (co-owner really as his Thai girlfriend is part owner and unwilling silent partner so to speak) went to great lengths to give a very convincing side to the story...he certainly has a lot more to lose (and gain for that matter) than I do.  I can always pack up, move out and start anew somewhere else.  Not so easy for as he claims on his website  "one the largest schools in Surat Thani".  Oh,  Mr. **name removed** could sell milk to a cow!

Look, my husband and I are free and clear of the troubles that came with associating with this guy or, more correctly, came of pissing this guy off.  And no we DID NOT jump ship and my bank account could attest to that!    He did not take kindly to having to answer to the police (which I encourage you to contact as an impartial observer at least) twice in a few weeks.  That said,  I take a great risk in stirring up this hornets nest but I can not stand by and watch this guy fleece teacher after teacher. 

Don't listen to me.  Do a little reading between the lines.  Check out how often he has posted positions  on job boards and compare that to how many positions he has maintained.  It's the same schools just going through new teachers!  Look on the website at  the staff profiles for goodness sakes!  lol!  My gal pal that I spoke of earlier who went through the same song and dance is still on the website as an instructor!  She's in Australia!  ( Off the record:*** ******* and she has given permission to me to give you her email *****@gmail.com)  And the head teacher/assisstant director?  I told you he quit.  I'm pretty sure the others have gone because the positions are on the job board and I've heard they are angry about not being paid.  Once again he desperately needs teachers?   Teachers without qualification are a lot less likely to go running to the cops even if they have a Warren G. Harding job cuz both parties know it's a fake, but that's just a thought.

I'm sorry to say but the our boy from Amerithai is quite the smooth talker...it's what he does.  I can tell you that he is a practiced liar and unscrupulous businessman.  Many  of the things in his personal profile are absolutely false "Pit Bull Syndicate"? No such club.  Not to mention that the TEFL certificate course he offers that is accredited by the Warren G. Harding University (of which he is the owner).  Please, try to find this university online or sign up for one of these TEFL courses...ask Amerithai for some info! lol. I've also been unable to find any record of this Amerithai International Investigations in Bangkok...what is it? 
And try as I might I can not find this Surat Thani Emergency Rescue Group unless **name removed** has taken up diving there is nothing remotely close to that in name.  We do have a fire department and a police station but I don't think he's signed up just yet. 

I don't mean to throw stones here, I'm just a little frustrated that someone who, by his own verifiable actions and words, has shown himself to be a devious and deceitful person and yet he's setting up to do it again.

I hope he never comes back from America.  Surat Thani is nicer and safer without him.  As for Amerithai,  it does have a chance to become a good outfit if left in the capable hands of the Thai co-owner. 
Anyway....
Cheers have a nice weekend!

[oil_fan_abroad]

Wow really glad this thread was made. I am a former employee of AmeriThai and also had a lot of problems with the owner. I am a solo traveller and as well accepted the job from bkk. I was as well skeptical about accepting the position once I met owner, but was low on money from travelling and love being around and working with kids so didnt let owners mannerisms and political views stand in my way. He claims to have a relationship like a family with all his staff members, and I confronted him on this once, saying its not like any family ive ever know. Constantly talking about employees behind their backs to one another trying to find out as much gossip as possible...very unproffesional. I was there when alliecat gave her two weeks notice and I was the one the owner came to and offered me all her husbands work plus my own for 11,000 baht under the table extra.

I dont have a degree and told owner that at the start, which according to him my TEFL was good enough to become completely legal. After a couple months and still no visa run (Owner had all my documents adn I thought the paperwork was in process) I questioned him to see if this month I could go to Malaysia. Sure enough it was a negative. I was then told I would need a degree for my visa and owner would buy me one if I gave him 5,000 baht. This was too dodgy for me and by this point things at work were going really bad and I simply said no. I am a very honest person and just flat out refused to buy a degree.

I was under so much stress, I was pulled out of teaching my classes on more than one occasion so Owner could use my mobile phone so he could ring other employees who he thought wouldnt answer if the caller ID said his number. I was constantly put in the middle and was tired of it. My teaching wasnt at its highest level because of all the 'political' stuff that was going on within the school and I simply didnt feel comfortable around it.

To end a long story I as well quit...Without notice because I saw what happened when you do give notice. And to make matters worse i was " an illegal worker" so even if I did give notice he could of used that against me. I got the police involved as well because I wanted to make it formal what was going on at this school. Surat Thani tourist police were very helpful, and after a few threats from owner I just left (once it was all told to the police of course)

I met a couple other former employees of AmeriThai who had problems but just didnt come out with them and I kinda wish they did for my sake and obviously the sake of many others. Feel free to ask any questions I dont mind supporting my claims.

[oil_fan_abroad]

I know nothing about the owner of Amerithai apart from the small amount of e-mail correspondence that he and I have had

Bangkok Phil, for someone you dont know, you re sure going through a lot of trouble on his behalf. I'm sure if you met him in person it might be a different story, or perhaps he'd act like he's a saint so he can continue looking that way on ajarn.com . I would be happy to support claims against the owner of AmeriThai, so feel free to direct some my way. Dont dismiss Allie cats accounts so quickly.

[NukeThemSlowly]

Some people are fond of saying there are two sides to every story; that may be the case, however, if the two sides are totally different that means one of them is probably a lie.  Opening poster sounds earnest and consistent, and the shenanigans he/she mentions are certainly common ones here.  There is added credibility from the additional posters who have negative experiences with the school.

[Bangkok Phil]

I know nothing about the owner of Amerithai apart from the small amount of e-mail correspondence that he and I have had

Bangkok Phil, for someone you dont know, you re sure going through a lot of trouble on his behalf.

A lot of trouble on his behalf? I've made a couple of posts. Two out of the fifty-odd posts I have on this board.
Things are not looking good for Amerithai on this thread but why does my 'sitting on the fence until I hear further evidence' seem to rub so many people up the wrong way? Even the admin of this website contacted me to offer support and say that they didn't understand why.

[anyonefortennis]

I'd have to agree with BP, who was after all just detailing the correspondence he has had with Mr. Amerithai. Strange that the fact BP was compelled to forward Allie's email to Amerithai in the first place doesn't seem to have been acknowledged anywhere.

As difficult as it maybe to teach (entertain) a class of 55-60 screaming kids in a Thai government school, over here that is what is expected and is the norm unless you have an EP or MEP class, so I don?t think the school can be held to account for this particular issue. Yes, perhaps they promised help, but maybe none of the other teachers were willing to swap their cushy little numbers, or perhaps he thought things would settle down, who knows?

He does sound like a right shark and it sounds as if his school should be avoided, but personally I would?ve found it a lot easier to sympathise with Allie in the first place if the opening post hadn?t read like a Dickens novel. Anyway, I hope Allie has a much better experience during the rest of her stay in Thailand.

[Bangkok Phil]

Thanks man. I just find many of the posts and attitudes a little odd.
If someone says to you 'don't work in Bangkok - it's a shithole' then you don't immediately abandon all plans you ever had to settle and work in the capital. You seek out a few more opinions or you go see for yourself. But when someone posts on the board that XYZ language school cheats its teachers it's a cue for many people (not all) to march to the castle brandishing nooses and pitchforks. I just find it rather odd and wonder how many teachers get into trouble with schools because they don't listen or analyze the true situation.

[goo]

Can I come out in support of BP also? Waiting for further evidence of wrong doing on a school is indeed a very mature and rational way to act. I don't know the bloke (BP), never had any dealings with him, don't know the school in question either but just because someone allows adverts on their site from this school and suggests that there may be another side to the story isn't enough to jump on him and virtually (pun intended) beat the crap out of him.

A bit of rational, impartial thought is often a really good thing, kinda balances the perspective. There may well be s great deal of bad practice happening at this school, the evidence is certainly leaning that way, but that is still no excuse for crucifying someone for wanting more evidence.

[NukeThemSlowly]

....except that he doesn't seem to be on the same equal time kick for many other threads in this section, which are mostly not current advertising accounts with him.  The 1st post was a little fishy, but the most recent post defending them just looks like conflict of interest.  Why this special skepticism for just this one thread?

And if that weren't enough, may I remind everyone that this is a site where BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT GOES TO THE TEACHER.  I was most unimpressed with BP's unspecific, undetailed slurs against the veracity of the OP who was most definitely and impressively specific.  If it reads like a Dickens novel, that's probably because she was treated in that way- I know many cases of this in Thailand.  And yet while complaining about this on one hand, BP pretends that the OP's statement can be reduced in scope to something like "Bangkok sucks so I won't live there."

I think BP has a lot more to explain now about his efforts to discredit the OP's efforts than the OP does to provide "more" evidence- and I don't have anything against BP, but if he wants to get entangled personally in these threads ("I think I once saw an email that was a response about this poster which vaguely called him into question but I don't have it now") he'll have to be open to pointed questions, too.

[Bangkok Phil]

....except that he doesn't seem to be on the same equal time kick for many other threads in this section, which are mostly not current advertising accounts with him.? The 1st post was a little fishy, but the most recent post defending them just looks like conflict of interest.? Why this special skepticism for just this one thread?

So can I infer from this statement that you feel I'm giving some sort of special 'protection' to this particular organisation because they are an ajarn advertiser?
Here's the news - he isn't.

[Bangkok Phil]

And if that weren't enough, may I remind everyone that this is a site where BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT GOES TO THE TEACHER.?

Yes I forgot.
Amerithai? Bloody hell - I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. Avoid them like the plague. In fact if someone gives me a can of paraffin I'll raze it to the ground myself.

End of.
Look how much time we can save instead of bouncing backwards and forwards wrongly accusing each other of 'slurs'  and 'protecting' advertisers who actually don't pay to advertise. It's us who are making things complicated.

[anyonefortennis]

NTS, personally I read BP's response differently to yourself, as I think the point he is trying to make is that there are far too many people on the board who, without first hand experience of a school / company, automatically assume everything posted about a school is gospel and it does not warrant further first hand comments or investigation and so they jump on the anti so and so band wagon.

I don?t believe this was a dig at Allie but a general observation about some of the members responses on the site as a whole.

Half the complaints that I read on this board (not referring to Allie, but in general) are a joke and are a result of either teachers not taking the time to research about a company before accepting employment or the fact that their own behaviour is the reason the school acted as it did. The other half are a result of too many sharks running language / training schools with the sole purpose of ripping people off.

Gather the facts, consider them rationally and then crucify / glorify the school / school director etc. as a result of thoughtful consideration of the evidence.

And my comments about the Dickens novel, come on lets keep things in perspective.

[kenkannif]

(which I encourage you to contact as an impartial observer at least)

I'd not (if you're not legal) as they could well have arrested and deported you. Avoid! The MoE would be the best place IMO&E!

[Alliecat]

Sorry Phil!? I? feel you are completely justified in your position on this issue.? I understand the controversies that arise of blacklists.? WHAT IF I were just some rat teacher who got fired and was hell bent on screwing the school over, right?? It would be unfair to? believe me just cuz I'm "the little guy".? I hope the best for the school and what's left of it's staff  and I believe that,? under the care of the Thai co-owner, they could regain their rep (probably by just putting an ad in the paper saying "HE'S GONE HOME TO AMERICA!" ha ha) and make a good go of it.

I think my ex-colleage and I have the same onesided view of the situation that comes of actually knowing the guy (working with him and staying at his house for a while) and that is summed up in one question:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "How could anyone believe this joker!?"

Well easy for us to say now...hindsight is 20/20!? It's pretty hard to keep that thought in check sometimes and so,? for that,? I'm sorry to Phil.I consider myself to be a pretty good judge of character but I'm the first too admit much of what we suffered was do to our inability to see past Owner's powers of persuassion.? I also consider myself? to be an honest and kind person and if I can prevent someone else from the same unhappy situation then I'm happy to to do it.?

I guess I just got a little upset about ancient history when I heard the news about the staff not getting paid from the ex-assisstant director/head teacher.? It just burns me up that a bully is allowed to persist.? He knows the people that were hired with for their "positive attitude" that is so much "more important than qualifications or experience"? are too scared of immigration to do anything about it.?

Well I've done my part...the world is warned.? Plus I still live in town and, after hearing the Owner brag (or lie) about his mafia connections and how he "could have someone done for 5000B" I don't want to draw too much of his attention.? Bullies!

[Uncle Che]

What's the big deal? BP presented information about about the school. Some information  is better than nothing. I contacted a teacher I know who taught in Surathani to find out what he knew about Amerithai. He didn't know much about the agency only that it always seemed to be having "problems with teachers" and that the owner was known as a "difficult person to get along with." Take that for what it is worth, but I value the opinion very highly.

[hero]

NukeThemSlowly you seem to have a very strange atitude to all of this!  Phil is only one of three posters on this thread who has added any useful information - unlike yourself .

If you disagree with that someone posts on here that's fine, post up and say exactly what (in your vast experience of the school concerned!) it is that you are disagreeing with.  Do you have any information that proves what alliecat says to be true?  If another poster (other than Bangkok Phil) was to come here with a suggestion that there may be two (or more) sides to this story would they expect the same treatment?  If that's the case is it fair to suggest that you would only like to see a forum full of negative comments about schools you know nothing about?

Or is it the fact that it's Bangkok Phil who made the comment that upset you so much?

Either way I must say I just don't get it.  Everybody knows that Phil runs ajarn.com, we are adults here and realise that we don't have to "swallow" anyone's opinion "wholesale" - we can all think for ourselves.  You want to read every OP and believe it word for word, that's up to you, but please don't try and suggest that other people (with genuine experience of the school in question) aren't entitled to offer any alternatives.

I believe that any sensible person reading this thread would sense a lot of emotion in alliecat's post, they would see that Phil had heard another side to the story (which they could easily take up by PM I'm sure!), they would read on and see another couple of posters with other (limited) information all the time drawing their own conclusions.

It seems strange that some posters here completely disregard Phil's opinion, despite rhe fact that he has had more dealings with schools than most of the rest of us put together   I'm not saying he's right all or even any of the time, just sayig that IMO he is entitled (even encouraged) to share any information he has about any school.

Just my two pennies worth!

[windex]

Hello, Alliecat's husband here:

Let me start by saying that I havent exactly agreed with my wife's idea to post these issues at this time. We both have reason to believe that Mr. Name Removed can be a dangerous person, so I was (and still am) hesitant about her actions in this regard. However she believes that it is the right thing to do to warn fellow teachers about an unscrupulous school operator, who intends to continue to rip off teachers (indeed, this is his chief business advantage as far as we can tell) as well as harm them in other ways if they stop working for him. But, what's done is done, and so I will also post in order to support my wife and (hopefully) help other teachers thinking about a move to Surat Thani.

1) I say that he is dangerous: We both had several interviews in Surat over the last few months. In one of them the director told us that we were "extremely well qualified" (we taught before in Korea) but he could not hire us unless he knew for certain that Mr. Name Removed was gone or the school itself was closed. He told a story we had heard previously from two sources, including the offended teacher himself; about a former Amerithai employee, an Irishman who was arrested (several months after the alleged incident) on false charges of beating a student. These charges were brought forward by the Amerithai director, who was never willing/able to identify the student.  This director was very concerned about his new teacher, who he felt was not only innocent, but being harassed by a dangerous bully. When this harassment looked like it would continue for a sustained period, the concerned new director helped this Irish teacher find employment in another city.

There was another trip to the police station for the Irish teacher instigated by Mr. Name Removed, but the allegations involved in that situation are so depraved I do not feel comfortable relating them. However, anyone who works/worked for Mr. Name Removed will likely have heard it, as he tells it to anyone who will listen. I have contacted the other director to see if he will add to this thread, but in our talks he has been quite hesitant to lock horns with Mr. Name Removed for reasons of self preservation.

2) If my wife's or my posts read like a Dicken's novel, it is because the draconian measures utilized by Mr. Name Removed are reminiscent of the dark figures in those works.

3) We did not "jump ship" to another school, at least not directly. Because we had seen another teacher receive less than half his final pay (not to mention the 2 weeks pay Mr. Name Removed holds back as "midnight run insurance", we sought the advice of another director who we were acquainted with). About a month later, when a position opened, we did start working for this new school, but as it was the middle of term there was no question of "jumping ship".  First my wife tried to give proper notice and I was going to try to ride it out. Then came impossible demands we believe were designed to force a confrontation. I too then gave notice, but before I could we were summarily dismissed.  When the question of final salary was finally "settled" we were given 29 000 baht less than what we were owed.

There are so many more horror stories to tell involving this guy...  right now there are at least three other of his teachers who havent been paid since sometime in March. Two of them who have since stopped working for him told me this directly. The other continues to work for him in the hopes she will eventually be paid. His usual m.o. continues... he holds back 2 weeks pay, plus "employee savings" and such, then finds ways to have a falling out with his teachers towards the end of term in order to justify cheating them. I call that dirty pool.

   

 

[NukeThemSlowly]

My purpose for contacting the owner of Amerithai initially on your behalf was because they are fairly regular advertisers on the ajarn board and the owner, as I've said already, has an ajarn hot-seat interview on-line.

If you were wondering where I got the idea they were Ajarn advertisers, this is the place.  Is there some nuance I'm missing here?

I never suggested that anyone should not be allowed to voice alternative opinions.  However, it is an interesting coincidence that it is this thread where BP has gone to such lengths to imagine the shadow of a doubt, if in fact the school is an Ajarn advertiser (which seems a bit fuzzy at the moment).

BP's opinion, rightly or wrongly, can carry a lot of weight and I feel it is irresponsible of him to step in personally in pseudo-defense of this school- when it seems there may be a conflict of interest- with so few details, and with the condescending attitude (a Dickens tale?) towards the OP who has possibly suffered exactly what she has claimed.

Any thread here could be a fabrication or slanted view of the truth.  Even with school admins posting in equal response it's still he-said, she-said.  If BP had retained the original email and posted it, or the school owner had responded, that would be one thing.  But in this case BP seems to be attaching his personal flag to the school's version of things (with no first hand knowledge of what the school or the teacher actually did).  And no, I don't like that, so I said so.

[hero]

This is a familiar whinge.

However, the "conflict of interests" is somewhat imaginary because as we all know, people who post job ads on ajarn.com don't pay for the privilege.

Any thread here could be a fabrication or slanted view of the truth.  Even with school admins posting in equal response it's still he-said, she-said.

Exactly.


OK - Nukethemslowly if you have any more sour gripes, please post them in the sour gripes forum.  Any more whinging on this thread goes in the bin

[Bangkok Phil]

Any school is allowed to post a job ad every 20 days free of charge. Amerithai is one such school.
I would class every 20 days as 'regular'
Nuke them slowly - I hope that reduces a bit of the so-called fuzziness from my evil intentions?

[NukeThemSlowly]

Oh, ok... I'm foiled again.  It would have worked, if it hadn't been for you darn kids...   

So maybe you're not so evil.
 

[insurat]

This will be short, because I, too, dread the idea of making more of an enemy of the owner of Amerithai than necessary.  I have actually never done anything to cause friction with him, but have been the target of his bullying more than once.  I run another English school in Surat (sorry no names because I can't deal with Amerithai crap) and have been physically singled out by him a couple of times at local bars.   Once when I was with the owner of my school, and once when I was hosting friends from abroad.  Both times I was embarrassed and tried to play things down, and both times I was told that I should watch my back because people were saying bad things about me.  I think it had something to do with the fact that he tried to get our school to take part in legal action (ridiculous) against yet another school in Surat.  Obviously, we wanted no part of it, so became enemies? 
He is a bully, he treats those around him like second-class citizens, and he is an embarrassment to the teachers in Surat.  It's a great place to live and work, and unfortunate that he has spoiled the experiences of many others.  I'm not saying that no one else could be at fault for these problems, but I would be certain that he is greatly responsible. 

[NamTok]

? ?Thai owners of schools in Thailand also own the? police. Any owner of a school in Thailand owns the police. I've heard from foreign teachers I know and have read here at so many topic schools ---here meaning this website---many horror stories of the police going after a foreign teacher. What did someone say about the Tourist? Police? Did you say they are helpful? Some Tourist Police contacted the US Embassy? Were the US Embassy its usual useless self in these matters, or did it help?  I would offer that the US Embassy was its ususal useless self in these kinds of matters..

[MrQ]

  Thai owners of schools in Thailand also own the  police. Any owner of a school in Thailand owns the police. I've heard from foreign teachers I know and have read here at so many topic schools ---here meaning this website---many horror stories of the police going after a foreign teacher. What did someone say about the Tourist  Police? Did you say they are helpful? Some Tourist Police contacted the US Embassy? Were the US Embassy its usual useless self in these matters, or did it help?  I would offer that the US Embassy was its ususal useless self in these kinds of matters..

Namtok

What sort of proof do you have that this happens. Yet again you appear to be making wild statements with no hard evidence.

Nowt like a drama.

[Alliecat]

This is in response to NamTok's questions:

First of all, it must be clarified that the owner of  Amerithai is not Thai.  He's American and his co-owner/girlfriend is Thai.  And yes, believe it or not, the police and the tourist police were very helpful to my husband and I and my coworker.  We showed ourselves to be rational and respectful people that were put into a legally compromised situation willfully by and to the advantage of the Amerithai owner.  In fact if it had not been for them we would not have received even the fraction of pay we ended up with.  The American owner's apparent lack of respect for Thai culture, law, and people in general did a lot more for us than anything we could have told them. 

You are correct on one account...according to the tourist police, the US embassy has not done so much as even responded to the statements and complaints that were forwarded.  I doubt they ever will.

[bkkman]

? Thai owners of schools in Thailand also own the? police. Any owner of a school in Thailand owns the police. I've heard from foreign teachers I know and have read here at so many topic schools ---here meaning this website---many horror stories of the police going after a foreign teacher.

Namtok
What sort of proof do you have that this happens. Yet again you appear to be making wild statements with no hard evidence.
Nowt like a drama.

I do not doubt this at all. The police are paid poorly, so much so that they collect traffic fines right on the street (discreetly, of course) to supplement their income. A school owner is often well heeled and a little 1000THB bill placed hand to hand once in a while will engender fierce support from some percentage of the officers around. How far they would go in harrassing a farang teacher is up to the individual and what the Thai school owner said about the teacher.
Sad situation, but I suspect it is true.

But i wonder if this is true for a Farang school owner rather than a Thai school owner

 

[wrangler]

He's back......different name now....wonder why? Posted yesterday on Ajarn.
School is named Manita?....That's thia for his first name, so my wife says.

School
Send Resume
Manita
 
Province
Suratthani
 
Salary
21,000 - 29,000 Baht/month
 
Email Address

 
Description
Are you OVER 45? We are looking to hire 3 teachers OVER 45 years old. We feel that the more mature teacher has the life experience needed to help our students achieve their goals. We offer a 20 hour a week work week with two consecutive days off, a solid curriculum for you to follow, a happy and fun teaching environment, all visas and work permits provided by the school, health insurance, a salary of 25,000THB per month, and an end of contract bonus. We have a great setup for our teachers as far as all the "little extra perks" are concerned. We try our best to run our school like a family and our goal is to make any teacher who joins us feel right at home. We have monthly trips to the surrounding islands such as Phuket, Samui or Koh Phangyan. This job is great for those teachers who are looking for more from their Thailand than Bangkok can offer with it's pollution and traffic jams. Attitude is more important than experience or formal qualifications. If you feel you would like to join our team please email us at: withheld to protect the innocent.

[Alliecat]

Yeah thats's him.  I worked at that school and it is Manita according to OWNER...Hey, Wrangler what happened to your post retelling the horrors you faced at this owners hands?  I guess because you came out in support of me they decided to take you off?  I don't get it.  I wonder if they'll post this...

[wrangler]

Yeah thats's him.  I worked at that school and it is Manita according to OWNER...Hey, Wrangler what happened to your post retelling the horrors you faced at this owners hands?  I guess because you came out in support of me they decided to take you off?  I don't get it.  I wonder if they'll post this...
[/quote]
No, nothing like that. The server had a melt down and all post placed during the previous week were lost. I even had to re-register.
Hope things are going ok for you down there. No drive by shootings ...

[Mods-Rockers]

Yeah thats's him.  I worked at that school and it is Manita according to OWNER...Hey, Wrangler what happened to your post retelling the horrors you faced at this owners hands?  I guess because you came out in support of me they decided to take you off?  I don't get it.  I wonder if they'll post this...

We did not delete anything, we had a major incident over the weekend and lost about a weeks worth of postings, our own included, we are trying to recover as much as we can but you and others are welcome to post again to save time. we have now instituted a more intense back up regeme so the problem should ne be as bad if it happens again.

[Alliecat]

Sorry guys! just a little paranoid these days

[amerithai]

I just returned from my trip to the US...not doing a runner as some seem to speculate, but attending to a family emergency.  It seems I have a bit of explaining to do concerning a certain termination.  I saw that Phil mentioned I had sent him an email reply to the situation but he had deleted it.  Here it is...I will add another post after this to answer some specific issues. (I have removed the given names of the teachers in question and replaced them.

******,
 
Thank you for the opportunity to reply to that email you received concerning my school.  I appreciate the courtesy.  I will provide any information you need concerning any claims made by myself in this email, and will provide you with telephone numbers and persons to contact as this story is much bigger than your original email leads you to believe.
 
I hired **** and ***** on November 28, 2005.  They were paid a salary for the hours worked during that month in cash on December 1, 2005.  They were also paid a housing allowance on that date which paid their rent for the month of December. 
 
The pay period at our school begins on the first of the month and ends on the last day of the month.  The teachers are paid 50% on the first and the remaining amount on the 15th of the month.  (The reason for this is because our contracts with the Thai schools we send teachers to require us to pay a penalty for each day we do not supply a teacher and after having 2 teachers do runners OUR TEACHERS in a TEACHER MEETING voted for this twice a month pay system)  This is spelled out completely in not only the contract but also in the employee's handbook and covered in detail during the orientation.
 
From day one of their employment these two employees were a problem.  It began with the female representing herself as a degree holder when it turned out she did not have a degree.  (she had a Khao San Road  Special)  (The male also failed to produce a degree but he still insists he has one so I cannot say he does not as I have no proof.)  The position that ***** was hired for, required her to teach Pratom 1 and she agreed, after 1 week she was very unhappy with her job and I offered to take away her P1 classes and give those classes to another teacher but she would have to change from full time to part time and she said she would just finish out the term.  (We also had some alcohol related issues with West during this time but I would prefer not to go into further details at this time).  At the end of the day Phil, these were 2 VERY bad hires.
 
On January 18, ***** handed in her resignation giving 2 weeks notice and it was accepted.  I informed her that during those 2 weeks, she was still bound by the terms of her contract (contact hours/meetings...etc)  She said she understood.  Three days later her husband tendered his resignation letter, it was accepted and he was informed of the same requirements.  (These resignations had nothing to do with getting visas/teacher licenses/work permits - it was based solely on the fact that they did not like the way we managed our school.  For example, we require  our teachers to work 5 days a week with 2 consecutive days off, if the Thai school you are sent to has a day off I may still use teachers on that day at our language school.  This happens very rarely, normally the teachers end up with that day off. Although accepted by ALL other teachers on staff, ***** and **** had ongoing issues with this simple contractual requirement).
 
The next day I informed all teachers there needed to be a teacher meeting.  I asked the TEACHERS to select the time and date.  They selected Sunday at 7:00 pm so they could all enjoy the weekend.  I was told that the two in question would not attend as they "had other plans".  I told them that this was a mandatory meeting and the answer was "fudge you, we have plans and we're not teaching on Monday either."  They were informed that if they did not attend the meeting or work on Monday they would be terminated immediately.  (I had taken enough from these two).  They did not show up on either Sunday or Monday so they were terminated on Tuesday.  (Thai labor law allows me to terminate this way if I can show damage to the company in this case it is the "penalty" I pay to the contracted schools.  I am also covered under the insubordiantion clause.) 
 
The next day I got a call from the police to come to the police station as there were a couple of people who said I owed them money.  Against the advice of my attorney I went to the station. Wes and Allie were there with a competing language school owner and they were demanding A SEVERENCE PACKAGE they had concocted that added up to  98,000 THB!!!  We believed we owed them closer to 19,000 THB.  (The other school is a school we have a personal conflict with that I won't get into here as it is not the forum for me to complain about the business practices of another school without him being here to defend himself).  At the end of the day, the police agreed with us NOT BASED ON THEIR ILLEGAL STATUS, BUT BASED ON RECORDS AND DOCUMENTS WE WERE ABLE TO PRODUCE TO SHOW THEIR CLAIMS WERE BOGUS.  The police did not ask us to pay 19,000 THB, they said the real number should be 17,166 Baht and that is what we paid.  At the station, **** and **** were supported by a Thai and her foreign husband (the previously mentioned school owners) - so, in fact, it was not a couple of confused foreigners being steamrolled by me.  They were unable to show why they were entitled to more than the pay for the time they worked.  (From 1 January to the date of termination) which they were paid in full.  They are angry that they listened to the advice of someone who wanted "payback" and they lost.  You cannot ask the authorities for help and then slag off everyone when you lose in the proper forum!!  I am more than happy to show you the paystubs they signed as well as the detective on duty's written statement as to the amount we agreed to pay...THERE IS NOT 1 BAHT DIFFERENCE.  I can back up my claim with paperwork...they "lost their contracts" so I even had to give them another copy at the police station!!
 
As far as me not making them legal.  Phil, how much could I do in only a month when they would not even go to Malaysia to get a B visa after the paperwork was prepared because "we had a long night last night and missed the train"?  They did not give me the degrees or any other documents after I asked them repeatedly.  We both know how it works...EVERYONE works while the paperwork is processing...and from my side I really needed those 2 slots filled or I wouldn't have taken as much bullshit as I did. 
 
The final point they made in the email was that another teacher quit and did not receive her money.  In that case she walked away with no notice at all and I DID EXERCISE the option to deduct the penalty from her final pay.  They were a clique of 3 and, as I discovered, this was planned. The next day she began working at my competitor alongside *** and *****.  I have been informed that the contract is valid and I am within my rights. I will go to court if need be.  This has cost me much more than the 7,000 THB she feels she is owed as I lost the contract with the Thai school when I was unable to fill the position when she suddenly walked out...AT LUNCHTIME!!  Since that teacher did not contact you about her story personally, I can't go into more details except to say that it was another bad hire.  If she contacts you directly I will be more than happy to discuss her story in more detail.  As far as our school being under investigation...we are 100% legal and the person saying this is the competitor who "lost face" by not getting them the 90,000THB he said he could get for them from me.  As far as purchasing degrees from me IT IS TRUE, degrees can be purchased from me - I OWN A LIFE EXPERIENCE DEGREE BUSINESS BASED IN THE US.  I actually contacted you about this a week ago if you remember, but it isn't even running yet so the fact that ANY never mind ALL of my teachers have purchased a degree from me is bollocks. 
 
I apoligize for taking up so much of your time with this lengthy email...but I understand the impotance of your web site to the success of my teacher recruitment.  As a matter of fact, ajarn.com is the only site I use to recruit.  Please understand that these are the FIRST problems like this we have had in 3 years of operation. (When it rains it pours).  To show that I can back up my claims with documentry evidence, you are free to ask me for scans of the following: 
 
1.  **** and *****'s signed contracts
2.   All their signed payroll receipts
3.  The Thai Police report they filed as well as the final disposition of the case
4.  A letter from the Danish Embassy showing that the school they left us for has impersonated a Consulate Official to attempt to have us fax them documants.
 
5.  Our letter to said school from our attorney warning them of the illegality of impersonating us and contacting our clients and teachers. (calling our clients and telling them they are us and saying bad things, thus pissing them off at us/calling our teachers and telling them there is no school so our contracts are not covered)
 
6.  *** and *****'s resignation letters and my termination letter to them.
 
7.  The "Degree" that turned out to be bogus from *****.
 
I normally would not release any of this to an outside party, however THEY broke confidentiality and I must be able to refute their claims to the best of my ability.  I am also giving you the email addresses of my entire foreign staff...please feel free to contact them to get an unbiased opinion of this situation...those 3 teachers nearly tore apart the vision what we (my staff and myself) had built from nothing.  I am not in the education business to be dirty or to harm other people I am in this business for other reasons...some noble (educating students) some not so noble (good money) but NONE dirty.  Thank you for the opportunity to defend myself, my school, and my reputation .  The following are my staff's email addresses, all the teachers have voluntarily agreed to share their AmeriThai experiences when they read the email you sent me.  I can also put you in contact with other teachers who have left AmeriThai and you can see what happened to them but I must first ask them for permission to give out their addresses.  I hope you understand.
 
 
If you have a need for any other information please feel free to contact me at any time,
 
***** *******
Director,
AmeriThai Education International

**Note: Please change names, because I find it difficult at best to decide if you are using a fake name or not since the names keep changing. So just blank out the names, it is easier for all concerned.***

[amerithai]

For the first two weeks things were on the up and up for the most part although I was REALLY struggling with my classes (5 hours a day at a public school with classes of 55-60 6year olds and no Thai assistant - I had no voice left at the end of the first week).? I had requested some help or a few classes of older kids just to make the day a little less stressfull and I was promised both.?

She was told I would try to find a teacher to switch some classes...how fair is it to another staff member who requested NOT to teach young learners to be forced to switch simply because she changed her mind about the age level she REQUESTED?

By the end of six weeks I had still received no help with my class situation as none of the other teachers, including **name removed** wanted to trade older better behaved kids for my guys and I'd had just about enough of **name removed**'s tall tales and prejudice comments about Thais and whatever else.? Maybe another teacher would not have minded these classes but I left good money in Korea to TEACH in a country I like better and 60 kids is entertaining not teaching.?

Fair enough, but that was the job and you accepted it.  So, you are complaining that noone wanted to trade?  So I should have forced them just to make you happy?  Then what happens to the other teacher and his/her feelings?

He was also thoughful enough to call our landlord and try to have us evicted!? The landlord, a kindly Thai gentleman thought that was really funny, thank goodness!

We did call her landlord simply to inform him that the tenants who moved in were no longer employed by us and we won't be responsible for anything.  May sound harsh but it was my partner who got them this house through a friend.  She did not want to lose a friend if things were destroyed in the house.

taxes and "Employee Savings Fund Payments" off our earnings despite the fact we were not registered!)

All that money was returned to you when you left.  Let's be reasonable, everyone works while waiting for the wp/tl/visa. 

We were able to retrieve only a fraction of what was owed to us because he had lent us a few things for our home and the police used this as a bargining chip, thank them!?

A few things?  We outfitted your entire home!  I simply asked to get my things returned within 7 days and that you would receive your pay when that happened.  You had over 20,000THB worth of home furnishings!  I am such a bad guy that since you had money problems I loaned you a refrigerator, dvd, stove, propane tank, EVEN TEACHING CLOTHING...and the nerve...I wanted it back.  And the police agreed to the setup that we trade the money and the things at the same time?  Why would the POLICE use anything as a bargaining chip? 

Apparently **name removed** used what little money the school had left to pay their teachers and rent(business gets slow in a small town when you have a bad reputation) and used it to return to America for a trip.? Now no one is sure when or even if the owner will return and everything has been left for his poor girlfriend to deal with!? What a gentleman.? Of the few teachers remaining, according to the former head teacher, some have been working the last 6 weeks without pay!?

Family emergency in the US.  Didn't know I needed to contact everyone to be able to take a month off during the school break.  Your first sentance says that I paid my teachers and rent...however your final sentance says teachers are waiting to be paid...which is it? 

Another teacher quit and went to work for Super English and Amerithai's owner called the police to report that this teacher had hit a child which was of course not true and no child came forward but the teacher said it was pretty scary being arrested and questioned.? He was later let go by Super English because they couldn't deal with things like that disrupting the school even though they knew they were losing a great teacher

[Never called the police, the student's father was a cop who asked me handle the situation.  Yes, he was fired for hitting a student.  Now how can I have a teacher arrested without a student or his parents going to the police?  No one was arrested we just fired him and the father let it go.  (For the record the teacher involved didn't hurt the kid but just hit him on the head with a rolled up newspaper to shut him up...but the father said his son wasn't a dog.) He was actually married to a female teacher who was still employed by us and after he left he did go to work for Super English.  He beat his wife severly one day and she pressed charges.  I did go to the police station with her, and I did use my connections to have the police write a report (they don't like to do DV reports here) and he left town when the police were looking for him.  (I still have the police reports if there is a question about this)  It had nothing to do with who he was, as a matter of fact we were on pretty good terms when this happened...but what if it was your sister getting beaten in a foreign country?  Would you want her boss/friend to do nothing?

He did not take kindly to having to answer to the police (which I encourage you to contact as an impartial observer at least) twice in a few weeks

To be honest I really prefer to talk to the authorities.  We go to them when we have a dispute and they solve it.  If it goes against you maybe you were wrong and maybe they were not out to get you.  You said yourself "IMPARTIAL"

Don't listen to me.  Do a little reading between the lines.  Check out how often he has posted positions  on job boards and compare that to how many positions he has maintained.  It's the same schools just going through new teachers!  Look on the website at  the staff profiles for goodness sakes!  lol!  My gal pal that I spoke of earlier who went through the same song and dance is still on the website as an instructor!  She's in Australia!  ( Off the record:*** ******* and she has given permission to me to give you her email *****@gmail.com)  And the head teacher/assisstant director?  I told you he quit.  I'm pretty sure the others have gone because the positions are on the job board and I've heard they are angry about not being paid.  Once again he desperately needs teachers?

Teachers are given the choice between a one year and a one term contract.  Do I lose teachers before their contracts expire? Yep. Do I repost?  Yep.  Is this a problem with many schools in Thailand?  I believe so.  Do I have a huge problem with teachers not finishing contracts or at least asking to leave at the end of a term? No, I do not.  The three teachers above are the only ones I had a problem with like this.

I'm sorry to say but the our boy from Amerithai is quite the smooth talker...it's what he does.  I can tell you that he is a practiced liar and unscrupulous businessman.  Many  of the things in his personal profile are absolutely false "Pit Bull Syndicate"?  No such club.  Not to mention that the TEFL certificate course he offers that is accredited by the Warren G. Harding University (of which he is the owner).  Please, try to find this university online or sign up for one of these TEFL courses...ask Amerithai for some info! lol. I've also been unable to find any record of this Amerithai International Investigations in Bangkok...what is it? 
And try as I might I can not find this Surat Thani Emergency Rescue Group unless **name removed** has taken up diving there is nothing remotely close to that in name.  We do have a fire department and a police station but I don't think he's signed up just yet.

Well to answer...#1 Gee, a small club for breeders of Pit Bulls in Thailand, where do you get the info this doesn't exist?  12 guys getting together talking about pet food isn't really a media event now is it?  #2 What TEFL course?  We planned on opening one but it hasn't happened yet.  #3 AmeriThai International Investigations: Well she got me there...a real money losing investment for me.  Wish I hadn't even started it.  #4 Well if you want to know the actual Thai name it is: "Protechtung Gooson Satah" but calling it the Surat Thani Rescue Group is a little more clear don't you think?  By the way...I will post a pic of me working as an EMT if you still have doubts.

I was as well skeptical about accepting the position once I met owner, but was low on money from travelling and love being around and working with kids so didnt let owners mannerisms and political views stand in my way.

Yes, Jem you didn't like me but because you were broke you accepted the position but later when you had money you are angry because I am who I am, politically or otherwise.  And you didn't let the fact that I was such a bad guy stop you and your boyfriend from living in my house for a month rent free while you were getting on your feet did it? 

To end a long story I as well quit...Without notice because I saw what happened when you do give notice. And to make matters worse i was " an illegal worker" so even if I did give notice he could of used that against me. I got the police involved as well because I wanted to make it formal what was going on at this school. Surat Thani tourist police were very helpful, and after a few threats from owner I just left (once it was all told to the police of course)

So you justify leaving with no notice based on what your Kitty and West said?  OK fair enough but you did go work for the same guy the next day.  Now, you went to the police and I refused to pay you for the 2 weeks I kept behind.  It was clearly written in your contract, and your employee book, and discussed at length at your interview, and in the teacher meeting.  Why did you not get that money?  Because you were not entitled to it.  Even the police told you that you weren't entitled to it: 7,000 baht, yes I did exercise the option to not give you that cash.  Not ashamed, because YOU broke the contract and that clause was there to protect me...which it did.

As difficult as it maybe to teach (entertain) a class of 55-60 screaming kids in a Thai government school, over here that is what is expected and is the norm unless you have an EP or MEP class, so I don?t think the school can be held to account for this particular issue. Yes, perhaps they promised help, but maybe none of the other teachers were willing to swap their cushy little numbers, or perhaps he thought things would settle down, who knows?

Thank you.

I think my ex-colleage and I have the same onesided view of the situation that comes of actually knowing the guy (working with him and staying at his house for a while) and that is summed up in one question:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "How could anyone believe this joker!?"

Again, I opened my home to you...just so I could screw you later...

I say that he is dangerous: We both had several interviews in Surat over the last few months. In one of them the director told us that we were "extremely well qualified" (we taught before in Korea) but he could not hire us unless he knew for certain that Mr. Name Removed was gone or the school itself was closed. He told a story we had heard previously from two sources, including the offended teacher himself; about a former Amerithai employee, an Irishman who was arrested (several months after the alleged incident) on false charges of beating a student. These charges were brought forward by the Amerithai director, who was never willing/able to identify the student.  This director was very concerned about his new teacher, who he felt was not only innocent, but being harassed by a dangerous bully. When this harassment looked like it would continue for a sustained period, the concerned new director helped this Irish teacher find employment in another city.

So teacing 6 months in Korea with no degree makes you "highly qualified"?  Ok then.  I mentioned this situation before.  He was arrested for beating his wife, not a student and I would do the same thing again.  BTW this was over a year before this teacher was even in Surat Thani.

we sought the advice of another director who we were acquainted with). About a month later, when a position opened, we did start working for this new school, but as it was the middle of term there was no question of "jumping ship".  First my wife tried to give proper notice and I was going to try to ride it out. Then came impossible demands we believe were designed to force a confrontation. I too then gave notice, but before I could we were summarily dismissed.  When the question of final salary was finally "settled" we were given 29 000 baht less than what we were owed.

It wasn't a month later it was the next day as you were posted to the school that I lost the contract to the school you went to work for.  Anyway, the relevent authorities agreed with what we said you were owed and not your inflated figures.  Did you even have your contract or did I have to provide THE ONLY COPY?  I showed the paperwork and you said you "lost yours".  You were paid every baht owed to you...as a matter of fact the police figure that we "settled" on was LESS than what we originally wanted to pay you.

There are so many more horror stories to tell involving this guy...  right now there are at least three other of his teachers who havent been paid since sometime in March. Two of them who have since stopped working for him told me this directly. The other continues to work for him in the hopes she will eventually be paid. His usual m.o. continues... he holds back 2 weeks pay, plus "employee savings" and such, then finds ways to have a falling out with his teachers towards the end of term in order to justify cheating them. I call that dirty pool.

Not true.  As a matter of fact all employees working now are new hires as the school year ended in March.  How realistic is it that teachers will work for 2 and a half months with no pay?  This statement defies all tests of credibility.

? ?Thai owners of schools in Thailand also own the? police. Any owner of a school in Thailand owns the police. I've heard from foreign teachers I know and have read here at so many topic schools ---here meaning this website---many horror stories of the police going after a foreign teacher. What did someone say about the Tourist? Police? Did you say they are helpful? Some Tourist Police contacted the US Embassy? Were the US Embassy its usual useless self in these matters, or did it help?  I would offer that the US Embassy was its ususal useless self in these kinds of matters..

Why is it that if the police don't agree with a teacher they must be in "cahoots" with the school?  Maybe they are seeing both sides?  That's why we have judges and judicial systems.

First of all, it must be clarified that the owner of  Amerithai is not Thai.  He's American and his co-owner/girlfriend is Thai.  And yes, believe it or not, the police and the tourist police were very helpful to my husband and I and my coworker.  We showed ourselves to be rational and respectful people that were put into a legally compromised situation willfully by and to the advantage of the Amerithai owner.  In fact if it had not been for them we would not have received even the fraction of pay we ended up with.  The American owner's apparent lack of respect for Thai culture, law, and people in general did a lot more for us than anything we could have told them. 

So here I am this evil and manipulative American living in a small Thai city showing nothing but hatred for Thai culture, law and people in general, but yet I still am able to run a successful business.  All the disrespect I showed the police...but yet I "won".  Anyone who has been here long enough knows:  A guy who disrespects the police will find himself in all sorts of crap.  The bit about how much you received...it was LESS than you were told you would get BEFORE we went to the police station.

You are correct on one account...according to the tourist police, the US embassy has not done so much as even responded to the statements and complaints that were forwarded.  I doubt they ever will.

Again...maybe because after weighing the EVIDENCE...there was nothing TO do?

He's back......different name now....wonder why? Posted yesterday on Ajarn.
School is named Manita?....That's thia for his first name, so my wife says.

[/color]

Wife needs a Thai lesson.  Manita is short for Manitanukul the largest Pratom school in Surat Thani, a school in which I do the hiring for.

[Uncle Che]

Three things I see:

1. You admit to owing them money and that they had to get the police involved to get what even you felt they should get.

2. You are in the life experience degree business. Sorry, those are bogus degrees in my book, meant to trick unsuspecting people and government officials.

3. I contacted a few people who used to work in Surathani. The feedback was not good about you. The general consensus was that you have a hard time dealing with your employees on a regular basis.

[Bangkok Phil]

I don't think either party has come out of this with much glory to be honest. Bad hires these three teachers may have been, but that's the fault of one person and one person only - the hirer.
I can't imagine a great many people queuing up to work in Surat Thani and this may have been a case of 'the first person through the door' - but no teaching clothes, no money - you don't hire that kind of person in this business. And if your business is built on making those kind of decisions, you close the doors and go and do something else.

[amerithai]

You admit to owing them money and that they had to get the police involved to get what even you felt they should get.

No, the day they came to the office their money was ready for them to pick up.  I simply asked for the return of my items.  They refused to take the money that I had prepared for them and walked out the door.  A few hours later we were in the police station.

You are in the life experience degree business. Sorry, those are bogus degrees in my book, meant to trick unsuspecting people and government officials.

You are entitled to your opinion.  I haven't actually began the actual issueing of degrees yet, as we are still awaiting final certification from the American board that accredits online universities.  With all the dodgy degrees out there that are just fakes, and the huge number of really good teachers out there who have experience and a TEFL but no degree, it's a solution.  Some people don't support it, some think it's great...but I wonder what that has to do with my conflict with West and Kitty? I think it best to stick to the topic that she presented...ie my not paying the final salary.

I contacted a few people who used to work in Surathani. The feedback was not good about you. The general consensus was that you have a hard time dealing with your employees on a regular basis.

Not to be a jerk here, but I really don't think I can respond to at LEAST third hand information, especially considering the non-specific nature of that comment.

this may have been a case of 'the first person through the door' - but no teaching clothes, no money - you don't hire that kind of person in this business. And if your business is built on making those kind of decisions, you close the doors and go and do something else.

Well Phil, all I can say is...you are right.  I take complete responsibility for the bad hires.  It was a learning experience for me to say the least.  Now, I will not give the benifit of the doubt when potential employees come in with serious financial issues.  (The clothes thing we didn't find out until after the hire, she insisted on wearing slacks, but the school where she was posted required all the female staff to weear skirts.  After a lot of drama, I just bought them and loaned them to her because "she didn't have money to waste when what she had was ok in Korea".

You may think that I am spending a huge amount of time replying to the messages here, but answering these false "charges" are very important as this thread will be read my many potential employees, as well as maybe some current ones.  With the recruiting game getting tighter and tighter, it is imparitive to keep on top of what we would just dismiss as "rumors" before the internet age. 

[samvimes]

I haven't actually began the actual issueing of degrees yet, as we are still awaiting final certification from the American board that accredits online universities.  With all the dodgy degrees out there that are just fakes, and the huge number of really good teachers out there who have experience and a TEFL but no degree, it's a solution. 

There is a reason that Thailand has requirements for its teachers even though salaries really not high enough to attract enough quality people, and that's because they want to guarantee some minimum benchmark of standards.

Giving out fake degrees or using them to mis represent yourself just to get around a requirement should end up with you being deported and black listed. You want a job and you don't have the qualifications? Then get your ass back to school and get them

[graciousgurl]

**Admin Note: This post will remain here. It is posted from the same IP address as the user Amerithai uses. This post is HIGHLY SUSPECT. I don't know the owner of Amerithai, but he owns a "Life experience" degree business, he resorts to impersonating people on a public forum and he has admitted failing to properly pay a teacher on time.**

Wow, an interesting read.  I worked for AmeriThai for 5 months last term along with the 3 teachers who began the posting here.  First of all, they were VERY demanding and really had no clue what to expect from teaching in Thailand.  I would like to say that *owner)* is a really nice guy, but he does come off as a bit opinionated at times and he does have quite strong political views but that never caused an issue at work.  As far as the salary thing is concerned, I was in the office when it unfolded and his version of events are quite right.  Do I think that their attitude had a lot to do with them being terminated?  I believe it played a huge part.  On the plus side, owner let me live in his house while I was apartment hunting, for nealry 3 weeks rent free.  I don't know many school owners who would do that.  As far as the gruff, uncaring, dangerous persona is concerned, I found him to be a man who really cared for the well being of his teachers.  The Irish guy, I was in Surat when that happened and yes, he did beat his wife.  Pay was 2 days late once, and that was a bit of a letdown since it was over a weekend. He does have a problem when he is slighted so he gets a bit emotional.  I never heard him say anything about killing for 5000B except to tell us to be careful after a Dane was shot in Pattaya.  He said that if you piss off the wrong Thai you may not go home, so just walk away because the rate for a hit is like 5000B.  I just wanted to post this on here because I am afraid he is getting a bad rap from these 3 and he really doesn't deserve it.  By the way...I left at the end of my contract, to return home to Canada.  No hard feelings and I got all my money including a 35,000B performance bonus.  And *owner* if you read this, continue to give the benefit of the doubt just be more selective next time.

[wrangler]

I have had personal dealings with this guy. I had a long post here that got lost in the meltdown. I am not going to try and rewrite it.
I don;t know ***** or ***** , but after reading their story and having meet the director of AmeriThai, I will tell you this. There are plenty of teaching jobs around. This is one school that I would never work for.
Terry, as far as you note about my wife needing a lesson in Thai language. I apolgize for that comment. It seems that it is my Thai that needs improvement, because I did not understand what she was saying to me.

Over and out.

[Bangkok Phil]

I think the post by gracious girl puts a more predictable spin on things (and if the rest of the thread is to be taken as opinion and argument then why not this one)
In one corner you have the owner of Amerithai doing his best to make a living in not it must be said, the most appealing corner of the kingdom. He obviously makes mistakes and there are times when the way he goes about things leave a bit to be desired. Managing people, especially teachers in Thailand, is not the easiest of jobs and most people suck at it. But it's never easy.
In the other corner, you have the three guys who had been teaching in Korea (did I read that correctly?) and were probably used to something a bit more disciplined and clearly defined. Then they found themselves in Thailand, obviously bumming around a bit with just the clothes on their back and thought 'let's do a bit of teaching'. And in our spare time we can do some of the islands and chill out. The positions offered were probably not approached with the greatest degree of professionalism and their expectations were far too high (as gracious girl implies) This is a very common occurrence in the Thailand teaching game.   

[hippo]

Bangkok Phil states that 'These were bad hires' - none of us is perfect, we all have the capability of making bad mistakes from hiring bad staff to accepting bad employment. I have no connection with anyone on this topic but I see nothing wrong with Amerithai actions

[Mods-Rockers]

I have always been a little sceptical when a new poster comes along singing the praises of a school/company, it would be interesting to find out if there is any indication that GGirls post came from an american or canadian registered IP address. I ask this following the debacle over on the english abroad thread where they did exactly that in order to defend themselves.

[admin]

Both amerithai and gracious girl are using the same IP address, it is a Thailand IP address from TT&T MaxNet DSL.

[the horse]

Looks like somebody is busted!!!

[amerithai]

I can do one better than same IP address...how about same computer?  I told her about this thread and she read it and posted her reply...because I asked her to put in her input, does that make it any less relevent?  By the way, I am not a complete IT idiot if I wanted to be slick I would walk down to the internet cafe.  Gracious was staying with us for the night so she could catch the bus to Bangkok from Samui. 

[admin]

She posted that she quit and went back to Canada. Never mind, you have been neutered. This is a pro-teacher site and you are resorting to bad practices. I have a good feeling that this outfit will be fast tracked to the Hall of Shame unless some apologies are forthcoming.

[Mods-Rockers]

I can do one better than same IP address...how about same computer?  I told her about this thread and she read it and posted her reply...because I asked her to put in her input, does that make it any less relevent?  By the way, I am not a complete IT idiot if I wanted to be slick I would walk down to the internet cafe.  Gracious was staying with us for the night so she could catch the bus to Bangkok from Samui. 

Interesting, seeing as gracious girl states in her post "By the way...I left at the end of my contract, to return home to Canada." giving the distinct impression that she was posting from home. seems like a smoke and mirrors job to me.

[Mods-Rockers]

oops sorry admin did not read you final post.

[Mods-Rockers]

Had a nice PM from amerithai stating that Gracious girl did indeen go back to canada only to return to thailand to make that post before moving north to BKK. As I said to him I am still a sceptic on the whole thing.

[blackmail]

I had to think for a while to come up with the law this maggot is breaking.  It took me all but 4 seconds to come up with WIRE FRAUD.  That would be, for having false diplomas sent via fax/internet fromt the US to Thailand.  There are 5400 happy students at Harding University in Arkansas, I wouldn't want to let them down.  Will someone please report this maggot to:  The US Embassy,  The Department of Justice,  and The Federal Bureau of Investigation.  And if you read the law closely enough, kidnapping could also, be thrown in. 

[Bangkok Phil]

Ouch. Gone back to Canada and posting from the same computer in Surat Thani?
That's a bad move man. That's a real bad move.

[wrangler]

I cast one vote for the Hall of Shame.....

[hero]

Post deleted because ....

4. As always, moderators of this forum or of ESLCafe or Ajarn.Com are off-limits. Don't mention their names, don't flame them, and don't disparage them or make thinly veiled references to them.

Let's not go there again, it doesn't achieve anything and is, frankly, boring!

[Alliecat]

Goodness,
I'm sooooo glad Mr. Amerithai is back!  He is a liar and all we had to do to prove this was let him speak...Who knew?  Well actually...we did.  We have moved on for great jobs in ####(husband doesn't feel it wise to let liar pants know where we are as he's so freaky).   For those of you who haven't figured it out...Mr. A. is a scary psycho and you are not the only people to fall for his BS.   Our reps are a disaster in Surat Thani.  If we'd kept quiet we would have been OK but we don't tolerate bullies! We ARE qualified teachers and anyone who has taught in Korea knows how strict the requirements are there...no Koh San Road degrees would fly there!  Just another lie...but who can count anymore?  And thank you for posting my husband's name in @@@'s rant... that makes it all worth it.  By the way the Irish gent Big Amerithai slandered is a real stand up guy...just for the record.  Hope someone besides us reads these posts and saves themselves some grief.

Cheers

[windex]

So many lies by Mr. Amerithai it would take me a month to refute them all. But it's nice to see him get caught on that fake post... It's definitely a fake: "Gracious girl" even says "if owner sees this" yet when Mr. Amerithai is busted he fumbles up a quick "but that's because I lent her my computer!" Like most liar's webs it has gotten tangled and oh my, he does have much practice at deceiving.                           

A couple of his more ridiculous assertions I will rebuke:

1) My degree and my teacher's clothes travel with me wherever I go. I have a General Studies degree with an extended minor in Geography from Simon Fraser University in British Columbia. Not a prestigious degree, mind you, but easily verifiable and I did show it to you, sir.

2) Your "girlfriend" loaned Allie one skirt. She had two already but after the drama her wearing business style slacks caused at your precious Manita we both felt just wearing what the Thai teachers were wearing for awhile would be best. And you told her she could wear pants.

Bangkok Phil, for the record: We had four large suitcases filled with quite appropriate attire. We lived in Bangkok 3 weeks before deciding to take the job in Surat, hardly "bumming around"... and we had about three thousand U.S. dollars when we arrived in Surat. Our mistake was loving the location too much and deciding to furnish our house. So, when Mr. Amerithai robbed us it hurt bad.

3) The third teacher (our friend) never worked for the other school director. You turned her off teaching for good Mr. Amerithai. She did seek his help too, but all he gave her was advice.
 
4) We stayed at your "home" for 6 days Mr. Amerithai. You stated that you hired us on the 28th 0f November... we moved into our house on the 4th of December... You have no furniture dude. Not even a chair to sit in. Everything else you keep locked in your room, including two televisions.

There are so bloody many outright lies in the posts in which you used your real identity... my god... it defies belief... where did you come up with this stuff?

But it's good to see you outed faking posts from happy former teachers... did you even consider asking one of them to write something first? No, I didn't think so. I can almost hear you yelling at your poor sweet girlfriend to get to the internet cafe now to post. Those months of hard budgeting we had to go through after we left Amerithai were worth it if only for the peace of not hearing your terrible abuse towards her. And K/G (his girlfriend), if you read this: we all hope for better things for you. Help yourself and get away from him.

[Ken]

I work for AmeriThai right now and I feel that I have to reply to a lot of this farago of trite that is coming out in inuendo and inexatitude of truth.
Some may not like this owner of AmeriThai, but then a lot of people don't like Thai owners either, so what's the difference?  I have to speak as I find and I have found nothing but generosity with the man.  He put myself and my girlfriend up for 2 nights whilst he got us an apartment - not many do that.  He often takes teachers to school, not many do that either and he has 2 teachers living in his house rent free for the last 3 weeks, please show me who does that!  I lost some money and he gave me 3,000 baht - gave me!
No, we al have sides to us that rub up some peole the wrong way, but then it seems that some use the Internet to pile on unsound unendos to justify their questionable self-worth.  Sure there are issues you can have out with a boss, but some of us say it straight and then get on with life.  Sadly Thailand seems to have a sad, loser magnet atached to it. For some reason it draws in the lost, disafected and immature. 
Trust me, working here is easy. I work from 9.30 - 11;30 get and hour for lunch then from 12.30 - 2.30 or 3.30 on other days.  I dont go in at 7.30 and salute the flag, I dont have to waste hours of my week waiting for lessons to arrive.  i dont have to hang aroun till 4.00 to sneak home.  Look at the vilification these people are desperately spurting out and you will see it is eating away at them and making it seem worse than the reality.  Pity them, I do - I finished at 2.30 today.
Ken

[Uncle Che]

Irregardless of any other facts, the owner of Amerithai runs a life experience degree business that attempts to circumvent the laws of Thailand, the owner of Amerithai has admitted to not properly paying his former teachers until AFTER they involved the police, and the owner of Amerithai has come on this forum posing as a former employee that is reporting a good experience. Maybe the owner had his reasons to do this, but TeflWatch's benefit of the doubt lies with Alliecat and Windex, as it must.

For this reason I have locked down this thread. There is nothing more to be gained from any other posts. It appears as though this Ken could be another figment of Amerithai's mind, but in the interest of fairness, I will leave it here. It is up to readers to come to their own conclusion based on the facts presented.

[slaxster]

as chance would have it, i am in surat thani indefinitely.  i do not care to teach english in this town again.  but here i am with 16 hours a week split between two colleges because i can't say "no".  i was not recommended since nobody knows me and i don't have a tefl.  i would really like to get rid of at least 4 hours (8 even better, all 16 ideal), but apparently everybody around surat is under a contract not to teach freelance. also, rumor has it that the outlying high schools need teachers.

also, if you should come to surat thani, work at amerithai (or whatever they call themselves this month) at your own risk.

[frankenstein]

I spent 6 months in this dump called Surathani town, and what a shithole it was. Frankly, a truly boring ugly town with nothing much to do, the pay was crap as well. I won't recommend this town to anyone. The province is beautiful, though, with lots of attractions. But let's face it, how much free time do you get as a teacher to visit these attractions? Most teachers I knew in Surat, myself included, worked 6-7 days a week just to make ends meet. I teach in Phuket town these days and it's a much nicer place. Phuket town unlike Suratthani town has some character, believe me.

[NamTok]

   In 1998-99 I lived and taught in Surat Thani town. Yes it is small, dumpy and dingy. Almost any place in Thailand has some decent restaurants: Surat Thani town does. Few farangs there. Some Germans and Brits; a few Thais who speak English. Frequent torrential rainstorms at the end of afternoons. Strong ChineseThai presence. Overall, freindly people (especially if you're buying.).
   But there wasn't anything to do except sit, drink and chat with the same people, or to sit and eat, drink and chat with the same people. Or watch UBC, which told me I would get back my deposit after my return move to Bangok and, of  course, I never did. With several moves of residence in Thailand and UBC each time charging for new installation, UBC has about Baht 13,000 of my many deposits which BUC assures me I'l have returned when I leave Thailand. Hmmm......

[Uncle Che]

This school is now listed on our frontpage as a member of the Hall of Shame.

[wrangler]

 

[Thighlander]

I thought this thread might need a "revival."

[anyonefortennis]

Thighlander, I have a wee hunch they are trading under a new name, see the following;

http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/index.php/topic,888.0.html

I could be well of the mark and totally wrong of course, in which case there is no reason to be put off from working for 'The Language'.

Can anyone confirm if they are in fact one of the same?

[anyonefortennis]

These boys are on the prowl again,

http://www.teflasia.com/ajarn/browse_jobs/Thailand/85652.html 

Anyone thinking about working for AmeriThai may which to read thru this thread before doing so, of course they may well be a much better outfit now.