Topic: Teacher Agencies vs. School Employment

[overdue]

My post was not intended to offend anyone, just my opinion. It amazes me that teachers come to Thailand, do little or no research and then ask themselves why they are making less than teachers who did do their homework and signed a contract directly with the school. The reality is that teachers who sign up directly with the school are making more money and are on a twelve month contract and not a ten month one. Most schools are crying out for teachers so why go through an agency? Sorry, but I don't get it.

[hero]

That's great for those with a long-term plan.  Of course agencies have their uses for others.  When I came to Thailand 3 years ago I had no plan at all.  I was enrolled for a TEFL course and that was as far as my plan went.  I was hoping to work in Phuket, when that didn't materialise (low pay and high cost of living mainly) I headed for Bangkok.  It was mid-semester and I wasn't really looking to work in a school, I fancied teaching adults in language centres.  The best job of three (in my opinion at the time) that I got offered was with an agency who offered me four days a week in two different schools and as much evening and weekend work as I wanted.  I learnt about what to expect in a school and, yes, I became aware that working for a school was suitable for me and "easier" money (due to more sociable hours and lighter work/prep load).

Unfortunately the downside of working for an agency also became apparent, when it was holiday time I was broke because there weren't enough classes to go around.

When term time came round again I had a shiny new school for five days a week which paid my full-time wage and the agency (for whom I stil worked) gave me corporate and language centre classes.  It was all very easy to make a very good monthly wage to be honest.  Of course I didn't have medical cover and I wasn't promied any holiday pay, but for me (still with no long-term plan) it was all good and I was very happy.

Eventually the school and agency had a row, I was forced to choose.  I could stay with the agency or stay with the school.  It was a better package at the school (salary, holiday pay, medical cover), but it was a serious decision affecting the long-term.  If I stayed with the school I would lose al of my extra work and would have to start networking etc., cushy corporates would have to be sought out.

It was only the fact that I realy loved the school that kept me there, to be honest.  Colleagues of mine that weren't so enchanted left and stuck with the agency (they have all now found schools they like also).

What's my point?  For newbie teachers with or without a  long-term plan, working for an agency is a good way to find ot what's out there and find out what they like.  As we know only too well, there are no guarantees that a school will be a good employer - the contract may look better, but that doesn't mean it will be honoured!  Working for an agency may not always "lead to" being taken on by a school in which one has been placed (very often teachers are disappointed in this respect), but it is a good way to find out what is available and to identify what kind of permanent employment one is suited to.

I have now left the school and am currenty between jobs, I have one lined up for next month.  Even now, every time an eveing course finishes and I have to look around for new contacts to get the overtime pay, I remember how easy that was when working for an agency.  There are some terrible agencies out there (I worked for one of the most notorious), but with a sensible head one can get exactly what one wants from them!

[Barracuda]

My post was not intended to offend anyone, just my opinion. It amazes me that teachers come to Thailand, do little or no research and then ask themselves why they are making less than teachers who did do their homework and signed a contract directly with the school. The reality is that teachers who sign up directly with the school are making more money and are on a twelve month contract and not a ten month one. Most schools are crying out for teachers so why go through an agency? Sorry, but I don't get it.

Working directly for the school doesn't always pay more than working for the agency. FACT.

[kenkannif]

^ Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't....sometimes you earn more on the hour, but less in the year etc.

[Due Diligence]

But with most schools finishing around 4pm you can always get a part time after school 6-9pm gig or even a  weekend jobbie.  so if your got a reasonable 40k full time job and then can easily pickup extra 10-20k a month for a few evenings and weekends. Depends on the amount of work you want to do.

Least
1. you got a correct visa and work permit
2. regular salary (some agents screw you for ever cancelled class etc)

[Due Diligence]

As many of you each year look for work in a school you undoubtly come post your resume in Ajarn.com and other places.

Agencies search these and call you in hope to place you in one of the school they contract with.

This phone call beware.  Most times when they call they claim they are from the school they want you to work and never mention their an agency , sometimes your lucky to be given their name.

This can mean that you are unaware your from an agency and then not subject to some school policies or even in most cases lower salary. You could find your bonus at the end is missing (gone to the agency) and or some other deductions.

So please beware and make sure the caller identifies themselves properly. If you go to an interview at a school as arranged by the unknown agency then clarify with the interview who the person on the phone is. 
I think agencies should have some small contract signed with the candidate before the interview occures.   (its also a recommendation to agencies)

Would anyone like to comment on more on these bad practices.

[hero]

Yes, I believe it can be a problem.  Such is the pressure for schols and agencies to sign up enough teachers at this time of the year (not that that is any kind of excuse) that teachers can be victims of "whirlwind recruitment" and arrive at a school with no clear idea of who they are responsible to or who they actualy work for.  Typically new teachers wil circulate their resume and phone number when looking for work, so when somebody calls with a job offer most teachers are interested to find out more.  Unfortunately some of these agents will try and get you to start work almost instantly with no face-to-face negotiations at all with the actual employer.  I have observed this personally, it's not entirely the fault of the teachers who often repeatedly find their questions met with half-answers and stalling tactics!

There's a wider debate on the pros and cons of working for agencies here: http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/index.php?topic=215.0

[Bangkok Phil]

<<<As many of you each year look for work in a school you undoubtly come post your resume in Ajarn.com and other places.
Agencies search these and call you in hope to place you in one of the school they contract with.>>>

It'll be interesting to see how many of these agencies are willing to pay for the service when we start charging for it in hopefully a few months time. Not too many I bet.

[hero]

Post removed containing a cut-and-paste of a job advertisement from ajarn.com with a few cryptic lines giving no clear indication of any point.

If you want to post a cut-and-paste, at least say what it is and where it came from to avoid any confusion.  Feel free to let us all know why you want to share said cut-and-paste with the teflwatch.org readers

[MrQ]

I really want to post the complaint by the poster who's post you edited there Hero. It's all your fault.

[hero]

I've just seen it!  Apparently I'm involved with some scam.  Unfortunately having read the original post I deleted and the "interesting" PM I am still unclear as to what the scam actually is........

[Mods-Rockers]

I am not sure if its a scam as such but to my mind its a very iffy business practice. For whatever reason, possibly the bad press than EF has recently had on this and our predecessor forums, they seem to have started placing ads under school names. these are schools that they have contracts with to supply teachers.

If you are then not on your toes when you reply to the ad you end up being employed by EF and not the school and thus losing all the privelidges that come with the school job (WP, insurance and pay during hols) oh yes and just to rub salt into the wound (this will need to be confirmed as I have only heard about it second hand) EF also takes a % of your pay in agency fees.

I have to agree, that the post was very ambiguous and anyone who has not heard of this practice would learn nothing from the post regarding the system in use. If the poster were to do as suggested and repost with more information and less abiguity it would help. If he truely thinks it  ascam he should take it up with BP, but in all honesty I see little that BP can do about it, short of personally vetting each and every job ad. This would be an expensive business and would I believe nessessitate BP making the jobs board a pay for service by the users (teachers), and lets face it who wants that to happen.

[hero]

  I guess it depends on whether EF are acting as employers or recruiters.  Unfortunately the poster didn't provide any information at all.

If, for example, EF are recruiting for and taking a cut from the school, then they are justified in advertising under the school's name IMO.

If, however, they are employing teachers to work for an agency (with all the drawbacks that are usually part-and-parcel of agency employment) under the guise of being a school (without all the perks that that implies) then clearly it is dubious to say the least.

Unfortunately, the poster concerned did a poor job at highlighting what the problem really was and then appears to have "taken his ball home"!

I would like him to post again, start a new thread and fil us in with all the details

[Mods-Rockers]

Same same

[Harry]

Mentioning no names then...

Sometime in the last month I was sent to a BKK school by an agent for an interview. The agent said that I would receive 36k less tax per month (direct from them), which I reckon to be worth upwards of 34,500 net. So after about an hour school offer me the job, ok so far... then they enquire of me if I'd consider going direct thereby cutting out the agent. So I figure, well the school is paying the agent around 40k... so they want to save some money, which perhaps they might like to share with me. So I go along with things & say ok, what's the deal then? One of the school reps. then tells me that the salary will be 30k per month & they will take care of my tax. Naturally I burst into fits of hysterical laughter, they look shocked & ask what's going on. So I try to explain that by going direct, I'd actually be losing 4 or 5k & they will probably be gaining about 8-10k. They then said that all of their teachers receive such an amount, whcih I find difficult to believe. I mean this school employs some 40 or 50 foreign teachers and some of them have been there for years. I don't believe for one moment that there are very many on 30k. Oh, & the school asked me during the interview, when I had my last alcoholic drink... so I told em' & asked why the question. They said that they had had problems with teachers arriving drunk in the mornings & being unfit to teach. I wanted to tell them that what could they expect if they paid such derisory wages for an inner BKK job, but I didn't.  Complete madness, that's all I can say.

[SusanRichardson]

Mentioning no names then...

Sometime in the last month I was sent to a BKK school by an agent for an interview. The agent said that I would receive 36k less tax per month (direct from them), which I reckon to be worth upwards of 34,500 net. So after about an hour school offer me the job, ok so far... then they enquire of me if I'd consider going direct thereby cutting out the agent. So I figure, well the school is paying the agent around 40k...

Agents generally are paid by the "hour" so they tell me. I'd be very surprised if the 40k figure is correct when offering you 36k. I think they figure min. 10k profit, and can be upwards to 20k, per month. Always ask about the teaching load/contact hours when going thru an agent. Often times they promise/contract with the schools 25hours a week. Here is the math in case you don't have a caculator handy...

25hours a week X call it 600baht an hour to the agent = 100hours a month = 60,000baht a month.

Then you have the holidays like today, the agent can afford them since they pay you a monthly salary of in your example, 34,500.......

NOTICE: When you work thru an agent, forget October, March, April and half of May.

cheers. Susan

[DW]

Agents generally are paid by the "hour" so they tell me. I'd be very surprised if the 40k figure is correct when offering you 36k. I think they figure min. 10k profit, and can be upwards to 20k, per month. Always ask about the teaching load/contact hours when going thru an agent. Often times they promise/contract with the schools 25hours a week. Here is the math in case you don't have a caculator handy...

25hours a week X call it 600baht an hour to the agent = 100hours a month = 60,000baht a month.

Then you have the holidays like today, the agent can afford them since they pay you a monthly salary of in your example, 34,500.......

NOTICE: When you work thru an agent, forget October, March, April and half of May.
 

Not always.  And this is where the problem is.  It all depends on the contract with the school and agent, the contract with the agent and you.

Some agents will be the sole representative of a school.  the school wants X full time teachers and the agent provides them.  IF its a decent contract, it will be monthly paid with october holidays.  If its a really decent contract it will be for 12 months not 11.

I worked for an agency in a school a few years ago that gave me a 12 month contract with paid holidays.  I was getting 44K, others I knew at different schools were getting 33K and that was employed direct by the schools.