Topic: English Solutions

[blackpanther]

Beware this outfit.

A very funny and scandalously explicit thread was on the old thaischoolwatch forum for a short time before it was removed. I cannot understand why these cowboys have not got a repeat?

No work permit. You may ask but you will never get. Only the two "bosses" (henceforth refered to as little "boss" and big "boss") have these as they paid some Thais to sign their name as ES employees. You will be illegal and will also get no insurance. Fall off a motorcycle and tough shit Jimbob....

No holidays. They will bleat....ohh we are flexible and will give you time off whenever you want BUT this is NEVER paid. Tough shit Jimbo.....

No cancellation policy. If they(or the company) cancel classes on the day you will not be paid...unless you go in and complain in which case you will be earmarked for later "elimination"?

Little "boss" is an unbeliveably arrogant, petulant piece of doodoo who should never have been allowed to leave his mothers womb?  Yes!! He is that bad!!!!!! He will smile and shake your hand in the interview but after this he will treat you with barely concealed contempt. NONE of their corporate clients want him to teach as ALL the students hate him. These are Thai students and many of the readers will recognise how hard it is to get a group of Thai students to hate you but little "boss" has it down to a tee.

Big "boss" is little better. He will smile more and actually has some human skills like small talk and such but, again, it is all a facade. He will lie to you and manipulate you.

Both big and little "boss" have a total of...........wait for it...............ZERO....teaching qualifications. They do not care either. Little "boss" cannot teach. Big "boss" can teach test-prep to high level students but once they drop below upper-intermediate he is useless.

The material is all copied from text books and the internet. It is also "copyrighted" hahahahahahahaha

The material is in no way connected from section to section so if you like to actually teach your class something then you will have to find some way to connect these pieces.

Turnover is <<ahem>> high...........many? good teachers have gone through those doors regretting ever responding to the ad on ajarn.

One good thing is that they pay on time......if little "boss" comes back from the bank on time that is. They may tell you that they pay everyone the same but that is a lie. It's all smoke and mirrors with these boys. Don't believe anything they say.

They will probably be advertising for fresh meat soon on ajarn. Beware amigos, beware.

[Ronaldo]

Black Panther is totally correct about these charlatans.

Some points to bear in mind are:

1. Yes... you will be happy with a little above average wages but this won't last long as there are no guaranteed hours.

2. You get what they don't want (be prepared to go off in the wild blue yonder), and if you have the audacity to complain, you will be placed on the blacklist for less hours (in the hope you bugger off), or later termination which they are know doing by text message.

3. Work, insurance, no holidays and/pay, no cancellation policy etc. etc.

4. Little boss and Big boss are not qualified to teach, proof of this is on their resume at their website. You'll find them amongst the teacher profiles page where eighty percent of the teachers don't exist or do not work there any longer, so many people leave they can't keep up changing the pictures and profiles.

I could go on... But I imagine you get the drift. Beware of these charlatans.

[Bangkok Phil]

I don't know anything about this operation other than what I read on here but it's important to keep in mind that the nature of English Solution's business is corporate work.
Corporate work has always been and always will be 'the icing on the cake' for teachers already doing a full-time job. I can't think of one corporate training company with the possible exception of Inlingua (maybe) who offer work permits, paid holidays, etc - this is predominantly freelance work and you can never rely on it providing you with a steady income. It's either feast or famine in that game.  You do a few hours here and a few hours there.

If you interview with any corporate training company and they offer you regular hours from now until forever, I would approach with great caution. Your hours depend among other factors, on the marketing ability of the management.

[samvimes]

Corporate work has always been and always will be 'the icing on the cake' for teachers already doing a full-time job.

Jeez Phil, still playing the same old tune, you sound like a stuck record.

Just because the work is corporate work does not mean that the companies can be even less professional than some of the schools here. Maybe you should support the teachers in Thailand instead of condoning the status quo which you are yourself perpetuating.

[blackpanther]

I understand your perspective Phil but as you have stated you know nothing of this operation besides what you read here.

These boys have ****screwed**** so many people around that it is no longer funny. I hope to enlighten those unfortunates who think they are a reputable company.

English Solutions have offered contracts and/or guaranteed hours to many of their past teachers. These "contracts" never came with paid holidays, insurance or work permits. All illegal work. Their management "style" is absolutely despicable and cannot be condoned by anyone who wishes to consider themselves a professional teacher.

And, Phil, none of the teachers I knew there had full-time jobs outside of ES. Most of them were duped by silver tongues and false promises. 

[admin]

Phil is probably playing the same tune because the tune is the same. Corporate work is corporate work. If the pay is good, then it worth the hassle, but only if the pay is high enough. Back 6 years ago, most teachers had two choices, language institute work and corporate work. One offered steady pay and the other offered a chance to earn more money. It is the name of the game and if you take any job expecting that you will be taken care of and that you having a regular salary is an important consideration for your boss, then you are sadly mistaken. In Thailand, farangs are hired to make schools, insitutes, agencies and businesses more money.

Most teachers don't want to deal with this BS and they have every right not to deal with it....and since free speech reigns, they have a right to say they don't like something and hope that things will change.

 

[hero]

English Solutions have offered contracts and/or guaranteed hours to many of their past teachers. These "contracts" never came with paid holidays, insurance or work permits.

Did the aforementioned contracts promise holidays, inurance and work permits?

All illegal work.

Technically all the corporate work I've ever done has been illegal - as I guess is the majority of corporate work going on

Their management "style" is absolutely despicable and cannot be condoned by anyone who wishes to consider themselves a professional teacher.

Information like this is always good to know - I have seen their adverts myself!

[blackpanther]

Yes, thank you admin.


I am exercising my right to spread the word on these chancers. I cannot do this on Ajarn nor can I, or will I, walk the sultry streets with a sign on my ?back proselytizing the masses.


Admittedly, their "contracts" were for guaranteed hours only with no extra benefits. Their usual excuse is that you are getting a high rate (500-600 usually) and that this extra money suffices.

Management is the main concern. You will not be treated fairly. They will screw you and lie to you.

[admin]

This thread has been split. The bickerfest has been moved to Sour Gripes. Keep it on-topic about the this school, not about corporate teaching in general or about problems you may or not have with other users.

[hero]

One post split and moved to the English Solutions thread in Sour Gripes http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/index.php?topic=181.0.

Please keep this topic for discussion about the bad practices in this company and use the other thread for discussing management style and personality!

Hero

[blackpanther]

Ok. Let's stick by the rules. Bad Practices only please.

1. There is no cancellation policy. If your corporate class is cancelled on the day you will not be reimbursed....even if you have planned your whole day around this class.

2. They openly admit that their material is plagerized. They copyright this material which I believe is <illegal> ?

3. They have no educational qualifications. I personally believe that if you wish to set up an "institute of learning" then you need some credentials to back ths up. Big and little are NOT qualified and CANNOT justifiably evaluate teachers. As a direct result this leads to friction with qualified teachers who **dislike**being patronised by unknowledgable fakes.

I know that standards are low in Thailand but this practice will most defintely NOT improve this situation. If we, the teachers, are to achieve our goals then we must do this in a constructive, honest and professional environment. I hope this is sane enough for you Bangkok Phil.

4. Teachers are/have been/were told that they will be given loads of hours in the initial interview. While I totally accept the retort of incredulity it is still bad practice to lie. All the teachers who believed this later left in disgust. Why can't they just tell the truth?

5. Teachers are/have been/were told that their was no work for them while others were given extra work. These teachers did their jobs well but for whatever reason they were not appreciated by big and little. They were "phased out". I accept that it is the right of the employer to choose their employees and the jobs that they send them to. However, I feel that it is unethical and BAD practice to tell a teacher that they will have more work next month while knowing full well that they won't and that big and little have absolutely no intention of giving any work to the teacher.

6. Full-time corporate teachers...yes there are/were full-time teachers there.....have NEVER been given insurance. I know that one teacher asked for insurance only to be told that it was not possible because none of them had work permits. When said teacher showed the thread (from ajarn.com) that stated that insurance WAS readily available for illegal employees he was ignored. Is it bad practice to lie and put the health of your full-time employees in danger?

I am hopeful that my efforts to express the various bad practices of this cowboy outfit wil be heartily appreciated by all of my many ex-colleagues and admin here. I have purposely not gone on any tangents about personality and style.

If anyone wants to add their own experiences to this section of my wonderful thread then please remember to NOT expressly witch about big and little. Please keep it to BAD PRACTICES of which there are many many amigos?

[Bangkok Phil]

There is no cancellation policy. If your corporate class is cancelled on the day you will not be reimbursed....even if you have planned your whole day around this class.

Now that is appalling. I would never work for a company that had that kind of arrangement. I've worked at a couple of places that had a rather 'wishy-washy' 50% reimbursement rule but even that is no good to the teacher. The problem could lie with the marketing and the setting up of the corporate contract. Your multinational companies will fully accept that they must pay if they cancel the class on the day. I suspect that the kind of client English Solutions goes for - the less discerning client (and I would include most of the banks in that category) will scrap and hassle for every baht. When you sell corporate training, It's much harder to do business at the bottom end of the market than it is at the top. Never touch Thai companies. And never touch government organisations.

They openly admit that their material is plagerized

I think you'll find most training companies are guilty of this. This is nothing new or unusual.

They have no educational qualifications. I personally believe that if you wish to set up an "institute of learning" then you need some credentials to back ths up. Big and little are NOT qualified and CANNOT justifiably evaluate teachers. As a direct result this leads to friction with qualified teachers who **dislike**being patronised by unknowledgable fakes?

Actually I disagree in part because it's all about treating teachers well. If a teacher is treated well and paid on time, etc, etc then the last thing they will do is moan about the management's lack of qualifications. What would be the point? You just do you work, count your money and go home happy. What you do need if you set up an institute is business acumen and the understanding of the market and of teachers needs. It's these areas where English Solutions fall down.

Evaluating teachers is a seperate issue and always a tricky area. It's a complete misconception that an observer needs to be 'more qualified' than the person they are evaluating. Everyone notices something different. What's important is how the feedback is delivered and that is not an easy task to those who lack people skills.

I feel that it is unethical and BAD practice to tell a teacher that they will have more work next month while knowing full well that they won't and that big and little have absolutely no intention of giving any work to the teacher.

I totally agree.

[blackpanther]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Phil. I thought we may have lost you when the thread was split 



If, <ahem> when, these cowboys go into the Hall of Shame will you continue to post their ads on ajarn???

[Ronaldo]

The 'bad practices' of this company certainly need to placed in the 'hall of shame' for consumption by the teaching fraternity and other interested parties.

They are deserving of this award due to those practices outlined in the thread, which are truly shocking.

The necessity to put them in the hallowed hall should act as a clear warning to all teachers of the sharp practices that these clowns are continually involved in.

One extra point that is of immediate concern is black panthers remark concerning the teaching of children at the offices of English Solutions (presumably a Thai registered company), wherein the two principals are not qualified to teach English and therefore do not have the prequisite Thai teaching license, which I am led to believe, that any teacher of children at an established office is required by law to possess.

Is this true or not?

[blackpanther]

Well noted Ronaldo!


Yes, they do promote summer classes with International school kids. They are not qualified to teach these kids nor are they legally permitted to do so. They do NOT have teaching licenses.

I think their parents would be very interested in this fact??? Maybe the Ministry of Education as well???

[Bangkok Phil]

If, <ahem> when, these cowboys go into the Hall of Shame will you continue to post their ads on ajarn???

Whether they are in the hall of shame or not has nothing to do with it. The hall of shame is just a feature of this particular website.
I think the key word is 'if' so I'll play safe and say I'll cross the bridge when I come to it. I don't fill my head with problems that may not materialize.

[Ronaldo]

Bangkok Phil is quite right to state that we should not fill his head with problems that may not materialize and he has my support (no thanks necessary), however, I certainly would not want to be associated in any form with type of company that has been described in this thread as being of extremely dubious nature on multiple levels.

Black Panthers last entry is illustrative of a truly disturbing development.

Not only do they dupe corporate customers into believing that they are receiving a customized course and then produce copied material that they have the cheek to say that they produce and is thereby copyright to them.

Now we learn that they are not qualified to teach kids nor are they legally permitted to do so and that they do NOT have teaching licenses, this is not sharp practice but sheds light on a more potentially disturbing aspect of their operation.

Add to this the furore over the treatment of teachers (sharp practices), adds up to an unpleasant mixture of the most odious kind.

[Uncle Che]

If, <ahem> when, these cowboys go into the Hall of Shame will you continue to post their ads on ajarn???

Whether they are in the hall of shame or not has nothing to do with it. The hall of shame is just a feature of this particular website.
I think the key word is 'if' so I'll play safe and say I'll cross the bridge when I come to it. I don't fill my head with problems that may not materialize.

Yeah, and the cool thing is that, Phil doesn't have to choose whether or not he posts a job that makes it into the Hall of Shame. The Hall of Shame and all of TeflWatch is a tool for job seekers. Anyone seriously considering any school should vet it against this forum and do a google search for the school's name.

If Bangkok Phil refused to post job ads just because the schools had negative feedback then he would be guilty of censorship. Let the schools post whatever jobs they want to and let the teachers practice due diligence by checking out the school. 

[Notanewbie]

"If Bangkok Phil refused to post job ads just because the schools had negative feedback then he would be guilty censorship. Let the schools post whatever jobs they want to and let the teachers practice due diligence by checking out the school. "

Not my position to tell the owners of websites how to run their own sites, but I have to 100% agree with UC. I don't see where it is Phil or the admin of this site's job to make the decisions for teachers whatt jobs are worth applying for and which are not. It is up to each individual teacher to do that for themselves, and this website should be thought of as a tool to use by job seekers and not the final arbitrator of what jobs are quality and which are not.  Helpful tools to use but responsibility of finding employment that fits one's needs rests with each individual and not with Phil or TEFLWatch.

[Rick_BKK]

1. There is no cancellation policy. If your corporate class is cancelled on the day you will not be reimbursed....even if you have planned your whole day around this class.

I really hate this kind of practice. As Phil rightly points out a lot of Thai business never want to pay for a class they have to cancel, no matter how late they cancel the class. However the school needs to have a policy on how many classes the company can cancel and how many hours notice they have to give. The teacher should be made aware of these policies, and if the company cancels late or more than often then is permitted, then the should get paid for the classes even though they didn?t teach them. This is only fair.

2. They openly admit that their material is plagerized. They copyright this material which I believe is <illegal> ?

As Phil points out this is a common practice in Thailand, however that doesn?t make it right. People have put a lot of time and effort into writing those materials and to copy whole books is wrong. Authors and publishers deserve to get something for their work and wholesale copying of materials unless they are photocopiable materials should not be condoned. To then claim copyright on the already copied material is frankly ludicrous.

Overall from what has been said here I think people should be very cautious about approaching these people for work.

[blackpanther]

If, <ahem> when, these cowboys go into the Hall of Shame will you continue to post their ads on ajarn???

Whether they are in the hall of shame or not has nothing to do with it. The hall of shame is just a feature of this particular website.
I think the key word is 'if' so I'll play safe and say I'll cross the bridge when I come to it. I don't fill my head with problems that may not materialize.

Fair enough Phil. I understand your predicament.

Someone mentioned censorship? I think if a business owner chooses to NOT accept an offer from another individual or company it is perfectly acceptable. However, I do concur with the other posters here that it is up to the job seeker to check out the job and company beforehand.

BAD PRACTICES continued........

7. The Pay.

Big "boss" says that all teachers are paid the same. They are not.

One teacher came from abroad under the impression that he was to be paid 400b an hour for office work. When he went to wee man he was told.....no.....it's 250b. Said teacher went and got the email from big boss and showed him 400 BAHT FOR OFFICE WORK. wee man refused to back down.

Their highest pay rate is (or rather was...more later) 700b per hour for university work. One teacher accepted the university job but, admittedly foolishly, did not clarify the rate. They paid him 600 baht. After protracted discussion wee man and big "boss" admitted their <<mistake>> and gave him the 700b.

They hired fresh meat recently. This person has NO teaching qualifications or even experience in teaching ESL. They immediately gave this person a higher rate than any of the other full-time teachers. 800baht in case you are wondering. And yes she has some snazzy looking degrees from the USA(in non-teaching areas) but they mean jack-shit when you are put in front of a university class of sanuk loving Thai students and asked to explain the difference between the past simple and past perfect.

The above mentioned teachers know about this thread and have been asked to post. Bring on the love boys and girls!

[Pieman]

OK let's talk about illegal practices.

Employing an illegal worker in Thailand (ie one without a work permit) is illegal. I am sure we can agree on that. STRIKE ONE

Now look at this from the employment law thread :
'An employee shall get his basic pay on traditional holidays' . This isnot happening at ES. STRIKE TWO

Yes BP I know 'par for the course', 'goes with the territory'  'I did it so everyone else should do it'  and all that status quo nonsense. By the way ,I know you never said those things and I state categorically that you NEVER said them. The quotation marks are there  to point out that they are cliches and I don't want this thread being split again on the spurious premise that it is badly written. But. there we have it twp strikes for illegal practices do we have a STRIKE THREE?

They are part of the American Chamber of Commerce  (I wonder if they know about this thread?)

http://www.amchamthailand.org/acct/asp/corpDetail.asp?CorpID=854
I found this tidbit of information as I was searching for their website.

On that page I found this:
English Solutions is 95% American and 5% Thai owned. could this be STRIKE THREE? That is a question , I am no expert on Thai employment law.

Here is their website      

www.english-solutions.com

Off to the sour gripes page.
 

[blackpanther]

Good stuff Pieman 

Yes, that info about AMCHAM is correct. They like to spout about their wonderful, qualified and ILLEGAL teachers at those meetings.

Remember amigos.....please don't dissect their website and/or resumes on this thread. You can do it on the Sour Gripes page.

The old English Solutions thread on thaischoolwatch was removed for this reason. We wouldn't want that to happen again now would we???   

[blackpanther]

Bad Practices continued.....

8. False Advertising.

They have 16 trainers listed on their website.

Only .........5.......of these people actually work there now. This includes wee man and big "boss".

The other 11 have either resigned or never even been to Thailand!!!! One guy was fired by text message recently.....classy huh??

They claim on their promotional material to have trainers from the US, Australia, Canada and UK. There are NO Brits working there and NO Canadians. Again lies...lies and a few more lies to top it off.


This is currently being discussed in a more <ahem> frank manner in the sour gripes thread.

[Bangkok Phil]

Bad Practices continued.....

8. False Advertising.
They have 16 trainers listed on their website.
Only .........5.......of these people actually work there now. This includes wee man and big "boss".
The other 11 have either resigned or never even been to Thailand!!!! One guy was fired by text message recently.....classy huh??

This is simply a case of a website not being updated. It's nothing more sinister than that. 90% of companies pay through the nose for a professionally-designed website and then lock it in the cellar.
I didn't realise it until this morning (when in conversation with my boss) but I actually know two guys who DO currently work for ES (admittedly I haven't spoken to them for 6 months or so) Neither of their profiles are on that page.

[blackpanther]

You know 2 guys who work there?? Could you pm me their names to clarify please?

I believe that they were "phased out" or left in disgust or probably both.

6 of the people on that website have never worked in ES. They are presented as trainers.

Present and ex-colleagues of mine know that the site is being constantly updated so wee man and big "boss" are fully aware of their actions. If..........yes, i know big hypothetical if........ they had your resume up there Phil would you simply consider it a case of "not being updated" ?

False advertising.

[Bangkok Phil]

No, I'm not going to pm you names of people without their consent and without letting them know the reason (s) I would be doing it. Sorry.

As far as I know, the two guys are still there and do a few hours 'here and there' . They only look on the jobs as a bit of part-time cash. Both of them have decent pensions I think.

"If they had your resume up there Phil would you simply consider it a case of "not being updated" ?

And I didn't work there anymore? To be honest it wouldn't bother me a great deal. Perhaps it should - but it doesn't. Each to his own.
A previous employer had my picture on a website a whole year after I'd left and the school had gone out of business. It didn't worry me. I think school websites get very little traffic anyway,

[Ronaldo]

The sinister part is that they know what they are doing by not updating the website, which they have employed someone to do on a daily basis, the case is not that simple.

Granted many website owners are lazy and do not update their website on a regualr basis but these guy's are purposely and knowingly advertising false information.

It really is a case of 'false advertising' or 'sharp practice' to knowingly participate in a falsehood that has been constructed purposely to deceive readers and potential customers.

There is no benefit of the doubt to give these guys, they are the proverbial gutter snipes.

[Bangkok Phil]

The sinister part is that they know what they are doing by not updating the website, which they have employed someone to do on a daily basis, the case is not that simple.

You've lost me.

[Ronaldo]

This is simply a case of a website not being updated. It's nothing more sinister than that. 90% of companies pay through the nose for a professionally-designed website and then lock it in the cellar.

From Bangkok Phil

The point is that they knowingly do not update the profiles on the website and the implied intent is deception, is that clear enough for you.

Hope this helps you find your way.

[blackpanther]

As far as I know, the two guys are still there and do a few hours 'here and there' . They only look on the jobs as a bit of part-time cash. Both of them have decent pensions I think.

So you don't know anything about their present employment status with ES? Maybe you should call-mail-text said guys and find out?

Then you could make some qualified statements.....

[Rick_BKK]

Granted many website owners are lazy and do not update their website on a regualr basis but these guy's are purposely and knowingly advertising false information.

It really is a case of 'false advertising' or 'sharp practice' to knowingly participate in a falsehood that has been constructed purposely to deceive readers and potential customers.

Please don?t feel I am trying to defend these people, I am most certainly not, but I think it would help Ronaldo if you explained how not updating their website benefits the owners of this school. I have some experience in selling corporate classes to companies and I don't really see how having trainers that you can't provide would benefit them, after all if the company really liked the look of a particular trainer they would ask for him/her. If this trainer was then not available it doesn't necessarily mean they would accept a different one. Further if they kept picking trainers who were not available then I am sure they would look for another school.

[Ronaldo]

Hi Rick_BKK,

The deception of who does and does not work for them is just that a deception that they perpetuate by knowingly not updating the website.

To answer your post - If a customer likes the look of a trainer it is extremely easy to say that a trainer is not currently available and granted the potential customer may walk away.

However, it is also possible by the same logic that a customer may not walk away and take what is given, which might turn out to be not what was advertised on the website, hence a false advertisement.

Granted this is a relatively small point but it is another example of the sharp practice this company employs.

[Uncle Che]

I don't believe in censorship, but I have to follow the rules. I am locking this thread for 3 days. You may still post in Sour Gripes to your heart's content. I am locking this thread due to this rule:

7. As soon as a moderator feels that a thread has served its purpose, meaning a reasonable person can make a judgment on the school or issue, the thread will be locked.

So relax for 3 days, and then I will re-open this thread because we still haven't heard English Solutions side. I have verified that one of the trainer's listed on their website is not employed by the school. This is easily verified by Google.  I may keep this thread locked for longer if I am able to uncover more information.

[admin]

In the interest of free speech and my belief in not censoring the opinions of anyone, I would like to post this statement provided to me by English Solutions.

"English Solutions disputes the statements made on this thread as the issues presented have been inaccurately portrayed.  For any specific inquiries about employment opportunities, company policies or general information about our organization, please email info@english-solutions.com."

[hero]

"English Solutions disputes the statements made on this thread as the issues presented have been inaccurately portrayed.  For any specific inquiries about employment opportunities, company policies or general information about our organization, please email info@english-solutions.com."

 

I can see their inbox full of new applicants tomorrow, they'll be queuing up to work for these guys!

[Black Knight]

In the interest of free speech and my belief in not censoring the opinions of anyone, I would like to post this statement provided to me by English Solutions.

"English Solutions disputes the statements made on this thread as the issues presented have been inaccurately portrayed.? For any specific inquiries about employment opportunities, company policies or general information about our organization, please email info@english-solutions.com."

Over three weeks have passed since 'Admin' posted the excuse of a rebuttal from English Solutions, however they have refrained from providing their side of the accusations placed before them on this thread and in the 'Sour Grapes' thread, which continued whilst this thread was locked and provided even more accusations of malpractice towards employees past and present.

Clearly, the management of English Solutions will not reply in any detail, which of course is their right but as they have not replied to any degree that would satisfy either those who accussed them or those who wanted to see the element of fairplay run its course and invited them to post, which they declined by issuing the statement above, it is clear to me at least that this is not enough for them to be stopped from being entered into the 'Hall of Shame.'

Comments anyone?

[hero]

I believe it's only a matter of time

[zippy]

Quite clearly the response from ES does not take into consideration any of the allegations in respect of their treatment of workers and their rather sharp business practices.

In effect the response is nothing more than a denial. Does anyone seriously expect them to respond to any emails sent to them in respect of the allegations made. This is the company that tried to inflict censorship on Sesal in requesting him to sign a document. This is the company that fires people by SMS. This is the company that believes that plagerism is okay, if you then copryright it yourself.This is the company that provides false information in respect of the staff that don't work there (you know what I mean).I could go on an on..................................... .....................................

I think I will stop there as I have made my point.

The standard approach of deny all knowledge and hope it goes away is not a response.

The clock is ticking - how many more hours until the Hall of Shame?

[Pieman]

Deafening silence. Could be taken in two ways:
'You have the right to remain silent .....'
'Qui tacit consentire'

and as I am in quotation mode, I would like to say to BlackPanther 'Honi soit qui mal y pense'.

Only 24 hours until we see if the boys are shamed.

[blackpanther]

 You've lost me pieman.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_of_the_Garter

[blackpanther]

Hall of Shame......


Any chance of admin posting the report here for all to read?

[Uncle Che]

Here is the teaser:

I remember fondly the movie, The Smokey and the Bandit. In it, the Bandit is hired by Big and Little Enos Burdett to transport 400 cases of Coors Beer from Texarkana to Georgia. A poster on one of several threads concerning English Solutions reminded me of the movie by posting a picture of Big and Little Enos in the thread. It was a little comic relief in an otherwise sordid tale. It is with great pleasure that English Solutions in inducted into the Hall of Shame.

The rest of the article is at:
http://www.teflwatch.org/2006/04/30/english-solutions-joins-the-hall-of-shame/

[Ronaldo]

Your wish is our command:

THE HALL OF SHAME FOR ENGLISH SOLUTION ARTCILE READS...

I remember fondly the movie, The Smokey and the Bandit. In it, the Bandit is hired by Big and Little Enos Burdett to transport 400 cases of Coors Beer from Texarkana to Georgia. A poster on one of several threads concerning English Solutions reminded me of the movie by posting a picture of Big and Little Enos in the thread. It was a little comic relief in an otherwise sordid tale. It is with great pleasure that English Solutions in inducted into the Hall of Shame.

***EDITED OUT ARTICLE POSTED ON THE FRONT PAGE, COMMENTS ABOUT THE ENTRIES SHOULD BE MADE ON THE ARTICLES THEMSELVES.***

You have succinctly provided us with the reasons for English Solutions entry into the hall of shame where it will serve as a warning to both prospective employees and customers to keep away from these uncouth louts.

[blackpanther]

A poster on one of several threads concerning English Solutions reminded me of the movie by posting a picture of Big and Little Enos in the thread.

 

[Pieman]

Is it my imagination or have ES made some changes to their website. It seems to be slimmed down but it is still a bit difficult to work out who would be teaching me if i signed up for one of their custom, tailor made and cutting edge courses. Cutting edge? A worksheet or do they have any other tools to use? I bet they have one of those new  fangled white boards and those pens that you can rub off with a cloth.
I can't even find the reference to 'aura of a god' anymore.
Perhaps this site has made them sit up and listen. I hope so , my motives have never been destructive. I want them to be a little more respectful to clients and employees. Hubris has had its day.

[the horse]

I would like to know how i can go about reporting a language school to the authorities. While on PhD research abr oad my Thai girlfriend decided to enroll at English Solutions, big mistake. There are too many issues and concerns to be listed in this thread but i would like to report them to the police for several illegal practices including but not limited to: falsifying legal documents (they use thais to sign for everything), providing false promotional and company profile information to the public (just look at their website), employing farangs without work permits or proper papers, lesse-majeste (no detail required but u should hear what these guys have said as overheard by students), not reporting income/taxes to the US gov't as required by law, using copyrighted materials as their own and last but not least, not paying taxes to the Thai gov't (they only have on record the 2 owners as employees while employing a large foreign staff?)
I am very serious about this and it is not a personal issue but an ethical one.

[the horse]

I think in the best interst of this thread as well as Thailand we should reprt ES to the proper authorties and repeatedly email AmCham to review their membership. This is a very honest and valid path to take to find justice against the 2 lovers running ES

[Notanewbie]

This is a very very strange post. If your only connection to the organization is your girlfriend was enrolled there, how do you has such detailed information about the schools tax filings and other sensitive information. Very strange post with a very strange request to do something that would seem to have no way of benefiting yourself. If this is a serious post (which I have serious doubts about), you obviously don't have a good grasp of the Thai legal system. "Legal" in Thailand is not the black and white affair it is in the USA or other western countries, there are plently of shades of grey. My experience with the Thai authorities is somewhat limited, but I felt I was treated fair in most cases, but the authorities don't seem to have much desire to butt into personal business disagreements. I can't see that the police could treat anything you would say as anything but pure spectulation (since your outsider status does not give the idea that you actually know the inside workings of the company any credibility) and act accordingly.

Very strange post that leaves open a lot of room to speculate on the motive of the posting.

 

[Notanewbie]

Oh, I am now fully convinced that your information is accurate and this is not a personal crusade (not).

I have worked at a number of places and the only time I had any information about tax filings was when I was self-employed. Your experience must be quite exceptional, an english teacher being privy to financial information of their company! I bet that doesn't happen every day.

If this company is really stupid enough to be dodging its taxes (wouldn't be surprised at all but I am not accusing them either since I do not have any insider information) and then broadcasting it to all employees and customers (seems highly unlikely) then you need not worry, they will be out of business in a very short time without any help from you.

Very strange posting

[the horse]

Clarification. My friend was a full-time employee with a monthly salary and no work permit. Sorry my error. But ES was taking "taxes" out of his paychecks eventhough he has no tax id, thus no taxes are reported by the employer to the gov't. The reason i know these things is because i am a good and nosey observer, as wellas conducting a study on US-owned businesses in Bangkok where i interviewed various farangs working at various language schools. My claims against ES are not unique as most know but the extent to which they deceive and rob the public of a proper education is what bothers me. It is common sense that they are avoiding taxes: having only 2 people on record as staff/teachers with work permits (Lone wolf and cub in this case), how can you report taxes on an entire staff of teachers who have no tax id or paperwork? I am not just against ES for this, i am quite disturbed by anyone who tries to "beat the system" which probably includes over 50% of farang teachers in thailand. If you haven't noticed, it appears that most of ES former employees are more than willing to disclose information regarding all aspects of the company and it also helps if you can speak and read Thai (that way when you call them as I have, you speak to an honest Thai who is ignorrant of what should or shouldn't be said over the phone.

[Notanewbie]

Whatever dude

Hope this crusade of yours gives you whatever it is you are looking for

Cheers

I used to work there, my girlfriend was a student at a later date, I got this information from a friend, I inquired on the telephone (why?). This story has more holes than a fishing net

[hero]

I reckon this post will be merged with the other English Solutions thread very soon unless someone can convince me not to.

I'm getting deja-vu when I read the OP - seems like there's nothing new here!

[the horse]

This is a valid question, what can actually be done to fix the problem? This doesn't have to be about ES only.

[hero]

Maybe so, yet you ask the question only in the thread title and then in your three posts you provide a whole host of reasons to back up your reasons for wishing to report the company in question.

I don't see any debate on the proposed topic and only see familiar complaints against a school already featured in its own thread and the hall of shame!

It is for those reasons that we find ourselves merged with the English Solutions thread!

Hope you understand,

Hero

[Uncle Che]

As it rightly should. I suggest that horse should be in contact with the other former teachers of ES. The claims against ES are well documented and it is a member of the Hall of Shame. You do not need to invent reasons to show how bad it is.

About taxes: If a teacher doesn't have a work permit, then they can not pay the proper work related taxes on the teacher. Any school that doesn't give a work permit before you get your first pay is technically doing the same thing.

[the horse]

I did not say that the teacher wasn't paying taxes. If you read i say that ES was taking taxes out of an individual who was a full-time salary-based employee without a work permit yet each paycheck he received had "taxes" deducted. That means somebody was pocketingth emoney and i bet it wasn't the teacher. Also, I was under work permit with a thai gov't univ at the time and was doing ES on the side, when i told them that i needed them to sign some paperwork so i could declare my earnings that is when things got weird.
In any case, we all know ES is bad news...

[blackpanther]

.....that is when things got weird.

What got weird? Come on tell us!!

[the horse]

"Weird" as in discovering little boy blue pretending to go to the bathroom but forgetting to close the door so sound would travel up the stairwell and he would suddenly appear like a ghost asking "hey guys, what are you talking about?" as he commonly did to interfere in any type of conversation. I think i actually scared them by wanting to be honest with the thai revenue dept and declare everything. Also it definitley got other teachers talking as to why things were so shady and unprofessional there.

[blackpanther]

ah yes...the ol' "hey guys, what are you talking about?" routine. how I miss it all   

[the horse]

I am back in bangkok now for some research and had a thai friend of mine call up ES on Friday inquiring about their "test preparation skills" for the TOEFEL. Guess what, they guaranteed him a score of perfect or 1 point below perfect. When he asked how this is possible (he stated he has no true expertise or proper handling of english), an offer was made to have somebody take the exam for them for a small fee of 20,000Bt. This is crazy, are these guys serious? Call them yourself if you can speak thai.
I know almost anything goes regarding english teaching in thailand, but paying somebody to take a test for you, that is too much!!!

[the horse]

Sorry mean to say "TOEFL" test. 

[Bangkok Phil]

I am back in bangkok now for some research and had a thai friend of mine call up ES on Friday inquiring about their "test preparation skills" for the TOEFEL. Guess what, they guaranteed him a score of perfect or 1 point below perfect. When he asked how this is possible (he stated he has no true expertise or proper handling of english), an offer was made to have somebody take the exam for them for a small fee of 20,000Bt. This is crazy, are these guys serious? Call them yourself if you can speak thai.
I know almost anything goes regarding english teaching in thailand, but paying somebody to take a test for you, that is too much!!!

This is a VERY serious allegation you are making here. I can't believe any company would be as stupid to make that kind of offer over the telephone to a stranger. However, the benefit of the doubt lies with......

[the horse]

skepticism is understood...
That said, i again recommend having a thai call them and ask in what way they can "assist" them in achieving a high or perfect score. The Thai individual who called also stressed that they would be willing to do anything, and i mean anything to achieve the desired results. It appears an open offer was made but if ES would actually do that, that is the true question, i agree it is doubtful, but it was put on the table at a point in the conversation as relayed back to me.I would be interested to hear their response knowing that the word is out.

[admin]

Knowing that ES reads this forum, I highly doubt that they would actually say anything of the sort if prompted. Because they read this forum, any Thai person calling would be suspect in their mind.

Speaking now not as admin, I used to be in the test prep business. This claim, while incredulous, is hardly surprising.

[blackpanther]

The two boys in ES both defected from Princeton Review. They revel in taking their customers and are willing to promise "extravagant" results at times.

That said, I never heard them directly say that they would complete the tests for a non-native speaker but it would not surprise me at all if they do. Educational ethics and standards are not held in high regard at ES. They make their real money from the test-prep, the corporate training is just a sideshow they send clowns to

[Ronaldo]

The boy's are back advertising on Ajarn.com for fresh meat, their advertisement is sweet and dandy, but one small thing that they have omitted to tell you was the fact that they are and probably will remain fully paid up 'HALL OF SHAME' members having reached the dizzying heights of mediocrity and sharp practice in the Thai educational world.

So, before you call or get to excited... read all about it.

To be fair though, I'll even put their advertisement here for you all to read and will not give in to the temptation of changing it or providing slanderous comment. The thread itself tells the story well enough for you to make an educated decision. Toodle Pip, Ronaldo.

We are looking for native-English speakers for freelance positions as Corporate & Test Preparation Trainers. The hourly rate is 500 to 800 Baht with programs held at our office on Sukhumvit Soi 1 (BTS Ploenchit) and at client locations during the daytime, evenings and weekends. Applicants should possess a dynamic and interactive training style. Masters degrees from reputable institutions and relevant professional backgrounds are a plus for Corporate Trainers. Experience teaching standardized tests, such as the TOEFL, GMAT and SAT, is a plus for Test Preparation Trainers. Please send a resume/CV and a brief cover letter highlighting your experience relevant to the position to iwannawork@english-solutions.com. Interviews will be required for candidates with suitable qualifications.

[Ronaldo]

Well, the boy's are taking advantage of their free once a month post on ajarn again and once again I'm here to warn to you to stay away from this outfit...

Their advertisement is sweet and dandy, but one small thing that they have omitted to tell you was the fact that they are and probably will remain fully paid up 'HALL OF SHAME' members having reached the dizzying heights of mediocrity and sharp practice in the Thai educational world.

So, before you call or get to excited... read all about it in the thread above.

To be fair though, I'll even put their advertisement here for you all to read and will not give in to the temptation of changing it or providing slanderous comment. The thread itself tells the story well enough for you to make an educated decision. Toodle Pip, Ronaldo.

English pollution says -

We are looking for native-English speakers for freelance positions as Corporate & Test Preparation Trainers. The hourly rate is 500 to 800 Baht with programs held at our office on Sukhumvit Soi 1 (BTS Ploenchit) and at client locations during the daytime, evenings and weekends. Applicants should possess a dynamic and interactive training style. Masters degrees from reputable institutions and relevant professional backgrounds are a plus for Corporate Trainers. Experience teaching standardized tests, such as the TOEFL, GMAT and SAT, is a plus for Test Preparation Trainers. Please send a resume/CV and a brief cover letter highlighting your experience relevant to the position to iwannawork@english-solutions.com. Interviews will be required for candidates with suitable qualifications.
 

[Uncle Che]

I thought this might be an interesting read. I guess we aren't the only ones who think firing by text message is not the best method. Maybe Big and Little Enos are starting a new trend?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060807/ap_on_hi_te/britain_fired_by_text;_ylt=Au6WSXGg0oGH5P5JiG6WNlqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cjE0b2MwBHNlYwM3Mzg-

LONDON - Katy Tanner's cell phone beeped with a startling message — you're fired. The 21-year-old had a migraine headache and took a sick day last week from her job at Blue Banana, a chain body-piercing studio in Cardiff, Wales, she said Monday. She turned on her cell phone the next day to discover she'd been terminated from her sales position.

"We've reviewed your sales figures and they're not really up to the level we need," shop manager Alex Barlett wrote in the message. "As a result, we will not require your services any more. Thank you for your time with us."

Ian Bisbie, a Blue Banana director said the company does not usually fire employees by text message, but had no other alternative after phoning Tanner five or six times and calling her boyfriend.

The company also defended the sacking-by-text message as a way to keep modern.

"We are a youth business and our staff are all part of the youth culture that uses (text) messaging as a major means of communication," Bisbie said in a statement e-mailed to the South Wales Echo newspaper. "Therefore as we wished to spare Miss Tanner the embarrassment and expense of coming into the store only to be sent straight home again, it was decided this was the best course of action to take."

Tanner said the text firing was unfair and it should have been done face-to-face.

"It was totally out of the blue," she said. "I don't think you can count it as official by text."

[Ronaldo]

I doubt that this would happen in Thailand, particularly since English Solution's doesn't hire teacher's legally, no WP, tax, etc. but some workers sought grievance against a company in England back in 2003, and won compensation for being fired by text message.

Workers at the Accident Group, the no win, no fee personal injury claims outfit that went titsup with debts of more than £30 million in 2003, have won a compensation claim after they were sacked by text message.

There was outrage in May when some 3,000 staff received text messages telling them that they had been given the boot by the Manchester-based company.

Owed thousands of pounds in pay, the plight of those workers was made even worse after Accident Group boss, Mark Langford, was pictured sunning himself at his luxury villa in Spain while workers in the UK fretted over how they would pay the bills.

21 of the company's 3,000 workforce took their compensation case to an employment tribunal in Ashford, Kent.

The tribunal ruled in their favour adding that staff had been "cynically manipulated".

But since the company has no cash, the compensation claim will be covered by the Government using taxpayers' money, the British newspaper the Daily Telegraph reports.

Following the decision, other former workers are now expected to seek compensation.

Mind you when countries behave like total assholes, what are the companies to do but to follow, ... suit, tie, and cufflinks?

Welcome to the American Idol Century! 

[the horse]

I wonder if any members of friends of members on this web board are involved in the american chamber of commerce. i had a friend a couple years a go in their "ranks" who said that among other companies in the city, ES was been comlained about a great deal by individuals and companies angry at their unsolicited ads, claims of success, etc. it would be interesting if their illegal and unethical practices wre ever officially brought to the attention of AmCham and its board members. It would also be interesting if a claim of illegal business practcies, as was just done in koh samui, was made to the thai authorities. that would at least draw some official and necessary attention to the bad boyz of professional test-taking. Can't the Ministry of Education as well as the Ministry of Labour be notified of these guys as well as all the other illegitimate so-called language schools? 

[brewsterbudgen]

I've been doing freelance corporate work for ES since July I've been very satisfied.  Good pay (600 THB an hour) and always paid on time, good materials (minimal preparation suits me fine), good corporate students and no problems from the management.  If you're looking to supplement your teaching hours and don't need a WP etc. I would recommend them.  I was nearly put off by the criticism on this thread but I'm glad I took the job!

[blackpanther]

Good to hear you enjoy working there.

Maybe "management" have taken on board some of the criticism. I still wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire though 

Be careful with the WP stuff buddy. Your ass will be outta here if you're caught or if ES gets raided.

[Ronaldo]

And there you have it in a nutshell from reply No. 71... Freelance, No Work Permit and No tax.

Hence no management responsibility.

As blackpanther has said "Your ass will be outta here if you're caught or if ES gets raided."

[Uncle Che]

On this thread, we heard about a worker fired by text message. It looks like Britney Spears soon to be ex husband got the same treatment.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061110/people_nm/life_text_dc
"People in their teens and 20s feel more comfortable using a text message to communicate something serious than having to confront someone," said Delly Tamer, chief executive of online wireless retailer LetsTalk.com, which researches phone use.