Topic: Truth about Contracts

[Nemesis]

I am not much of a fan of new age let's all hug each other type of people. i think mostly they talk a bunch of BS. Maybe Steve Pavlina talks some bs, but most of his stuff is very insightful. I think every teacher needs who ever thinks about a contract needs to take a look at this extract from one of his posts.

You can find the original here:

10 Stupid Mistakes Made by the Newly Self Employed

5.  Assuming a signed contract will be honored.

I’ve made this mistake more than I care to admit.  I’ve had signed contracts with supposedly reputable corporations, and they weren’t worth squat when the CEO decided he wanted out of the deal, even for completely dishonorable reasons.  Sure I was in the right, but did I want to go to court to enforce it?  No, I’d rather continue doing meaningful work.

A signed contract is just a piece of paper.  What’s behind a signed contract is a relationship.  If the relationship goes sour, the contract won’t save you.  The purpose of a contract is to clearly define everyone’s roles and commitments.  But it’s the relationship, not the paper, that ultimately enforces those commitments.  When I understood this, I focused more on relationships and worried less about what was on paper, and my business deals went much more smoothly.  Once you start falling back on the paper, the deal is already in trouble.  Creative (and lucrative) business deals almost always stray from the paper contracts that represent them.  One of my attorneys, who had worked on dozens of game development deals, told me that no deal he worked on ever followed the contract exactly; most weren’t even close.  And these were big money deals in many cases.  Business relationships are similar to other personal relationships — they twist and turn all over the place.

Written contracts are still necessary, especially when dealing with larger corporations where people come and go, but they’re secondary to relationships.  Just don’t make the mistake of assuming that the contract is the deal.  The contract is only the deal’s shadow.  The real deal is the relationship.  Keep your business relationships in good order, and you won’t have to worry so much about what’s on paper.

It’s sad but true that there are loads of scoundrels in business.  Many of them hold titles like CEO, President, and CFO.  There are indeed people out there who seem to care about nothing but money, and they will lie, cheat, and steal to get it.  In recent years some of the more despicable ones have gotten themselves indicted (or are already behind bars).  But there are plenty of others to whom the word honor has no meaning.  For example, in the computer gaming industry, it isn’t unusual for large publishers to feign interest in certain games and string the developers along.  They give the developer every indication that a deal is pending, but all the developer sees are delays and false verbal promises.  In reality the publisher only wants to keep the game off the market to keep it from competing with one of their own titles; they hope to cause the developer to miss the next Christmas season or to run out of cash and cancel the title altogether.  It happens.  Business, especially the entertainment industry, is not for the timid.

[Topper]

I'm really not sure of the message that your quote is sending.  I do agree relationships are very important in any business relationship, but I've always believed these relationships are founded in the committment made by the parties when they signed the contract.

From the quote:
"5.  Assuming a signed contract will be honored.

I’ve made this mistake more than I care to admit.  I’ve had signed contracts with supposedly reputable corporations, and they weren’t worth squat when the CEO decided he wanted out of the deal, even for completely dishonorable reasons.  Sure I was in the right, but did I want to go to court to enforce it?  No, I’d rather continue doing meaningful work."

As this is a teacher centric forum are you suggesting that contracts between teachers and schools shouldn't be expected to be non binding?  That meaningful work is more important? 

" signed contract is just a piece of paper.  What’s behind a signed contract is a relationship.  If the relationship goes sour, the contract won’t save you.  The purpose of a contract is to clearly define everyone’s roles and commitments.  But it’s the relationship, not the paper, that ultimately enforces those commitments.  When I understood this, I focused more on relationships and worried less about what was on paper, and my business deals went much more smoothly.  Once you start falling back on the paper, the deal is already in trouble.  Creative (and lucrative) business deals almost always stray from the paper contracts that represent them.  One of my attorneys, who had worked on dozens of game development deals, told me that no deal he worked on ever followed the contract exactly; most weren’t even close.  And these were big money deals in many cases.  Business relationships are similar to other personal relationships — they twist and turn all over the place."

Once again, would you expect a school to always honor the relationship?  The HOS is full of schools that didn't.  The MOL has ruled in many cases where the school didn't live up to the contract.  Where would you advise teachers to put their trust? 

Personally, I would take the middle ground...a combination of relationship and committment to agreements made.  Yes, some agreements may get "bent" to benefit either the teacher or the school.  But just to trust the relationship.....I don't think so. 

Topper.

A modification..... I asked the OP "would you expect a school to honor a relationship"  Thats not fair to the OP.  I would rather ask the members of the forum this:

Relationship or contract:  Where do most teachers put their trust?  As I've said, I take a middle ground approach with school management.  What are your opinions.  Perhaps we should start a poll to ask our members opinions!   

This poll would give new teachers an insight on the situation as well as providing more experienced teachers "fuel" for thought.  I would suggest to the mod that each member gets one post of fame to defend his/her opinion and one vote. 

What do you think!  Let a mod know!

Topper

[Nemesis]

Ah, the point of posting this is discussion and this is a good one.

I personally see a good contract as a good starting point in terms of defining the relationship boundaries. I'm guess I'm old school. I care about three things being defined in my contract, my pay, any extra duties, and my hours. Everything else is open to negotiation and in a good relationship, neither person will push beyond certain boundaries.

Example, a contract may not make provisions for taking part in an English camp, but heck if I am a teacher at the school and they are holding an English camp then I will go ahead and take part.   If it's a once in a semester or less occurrence then I'm ok with it. If the school has parent teacher night, then I will be there. I don't need it to be in my contract. I saw all of this based on a good relationship with the school.

If a school starts demanding I come in and stand at the gate every morning or if they demand I take part in just too many activities or they just piss me off then no I am not going to take part in the english camp or the Parent-teacher night. Why? because the relationship is bad. Once the relationship is damaged, you only have the paper to hold it together.

What's next? I've seen it enough times. Once the relationship goes south, you need to start looking for a new job because it won't get any better and the school, once you have to hold it to the contract, they will do anything and everything to screw you over.

And that's what Steve was getting at.

Once you start falling back on the paper, the deal is already in trouble.

If you have to remind your school admin to follow the contract then you know it's just a matter of time before they will try to screw you over. If you want to save the job, then look at repairing the relationship.

I'll give an example. I had a boss who dicked me over on some overtime work I did. A teacher had left midterm and I covered their classes. The first month I was paid the correct rate, but in the second month, the rate magically changed. Why? She didn't need me to do the overtime anymore. It was a few thousand baht and had me considering quitting. I also realized there was NOTHING I could do to get the lost overtime.

My wife had just taken a new job so I wasn't anxious to pull up roots so I examined my options. I was working with a crooked boss(who hasn't?) but more than that, there was a damaged relationship. I could walk but have a bad reference. I did something different. I bought the admin some chocolates and visited with her. I told her how sorry I was for reacting the way I did to the  overtime and other bs. I improved the relationship enough to finish out the year and I left with a good reference.

[Topper]

Nemesis,

Good example about relationships...its something every employee (Thai, farang, Israeli, or even American  ) should work to develop with their employers.  I too have done extra duties and not even batted an eye about it.  Last year I was out for two weeks because I had a heart attack and the Thai teachers supported me 100% because I have always supported them.

But a relationship is started the day the contract is signed, but developed over time by the parties involved.  That would be my advice as a manager, coworker and friend....give the relationship time to "mature" but always have a basis that the relationship is based on. 

But at the end of the day, if a problem occurs,  a piece of paper signed by the school is going to be worth more than a verbal agreement.

[Nemesis]

Of course, but I disagree with you. A relationship starts with the first interaction you have with your new employer...in the pre-hire phase. If that's a bad relationship(even though it is just beginning) it can be a prelude to a bad working experience. You can't expect everything from the start, but as the relationship grows, it matures.

And you're right, a written contract is more important than a verbal agreement, legally. I know I'm not like most, but if a verbal agreement has been breached then I am looking elsewhere.......(see the example above)

[Topper]

Personally, I never let the HOD make a verbal agreement without a witness.  She doesn't have perfect English so I make sure another senior Thai teacher hears it as well.

Has the HOD breached a verbal agreement!  Hell yes!  Several times!  But you're right, its the relationship between us that got us thru it.  She's cut me a bit of slack many times.  But I have also reminded her at times the terms of my contract.  She has, to her credit, done the same thing.  Its almost become a game between us (in the best sense..she really is very cool!).  But at the end of the day it all comes down to getting the job done, regardless of the fine friggin print on the contract.  At times you bow up and do it, other times you might say the requirements are out of bounds.

But I would council teachers to build this relationship...thats really what makes ANY job, in Thailand, America or Timbuktu nice.

It helps things, but don't necessarily trust it.  Many school/agencies/language centers don't care..the school isn't a school...its a way for the owners to make money. 

[Nemesis]

Exactly and the more people realize that, then the happier they can be in any job.

[bomha]

A lawyer once told me that the purpose of having contracts was to keep lawyers/barristers employed! 

I once worked at a school where I never saw my contract after I signed it, but it said my weekly contact hours would be under a certain amount.  When they tried to increase my hours the next semester, I reminded them of the contract, and they kept my hours below that amount.  When they tried to short me on my final full month of pay, I reminded them of the contract, and again they honored it, even though nobody had seen the paper for over ten months.

However, near the end of the contract period, I caused my boss to lose face publicly.  I amended my ways and brought her the chocolates, but it was the end of our relationship, effectively.  There is far more to employment relationship than words on paper.  In Thailand, relationship counts far more than the law.

[retiredstillteaching]

Dunno. Seen it both ways.

One school where I taught long term was strictly serious about contracts, especially the suicide clause which said the foreign teachers had to perform any extra or special duty as determined by the director.

Conversely, another employer never paid me until I had to pressure her to pay me by not showing up at school on the scheduled days and times (part-time). Only when I didn't show did she paid me, but it cost me days away from work for which I of course would not be paid.

This same director tried to sign me part-time to a two year contract with a two-year fixed salary rate, saying that there was interactive personalization by which during the second year the salary for some months could be increased without altering the contract. It was complete baloney. The contract also said that if I quit under any circumstances I'd have to pay the school five months salary. She was all take, take, take. So one day I took off.

The attitude towards contracts and the disregard of them to suit either party does indeed sustain the demand for lawyers/barristers. However, in places such as Thailand, the law seldom comes into play as the personal relationship or lack of it often determines whether mutual interests and compatability can or can't overcome the terms and conditions of the contract. 

[Topper]

My wife had just taken a new job so I wasn't anxious to pull up roots so I examined my options. I was working with a crooked boss(who hasn't?) but more than that, there was a damaged relationship. I could walk but have a bad reference. I did something different. I bought the admin some chocolates and visited with her. I told her how sorry I was for reacting the way I did to the  overtime and other bs. I improved the relationship enough to finish out the year and I left with a good reference.

However, near the end of the contract period, I caused my boss to lose face publicly.  I amended my ways and brought her the chocolates, but it was the end of our relationship, effectively.   There is far more to employment relationship than words on paper.  In Thailand, relationship counts far more than the law.

This shows that while even though all of us have had problems with the relationship between ourselves and management, that realizing the damage done to the relationship is something to be understood and repaired if possible.  Both of these teachers gave gifts of chocolate to the female head teachers involved.  In one case, it seems it helped the relationship. In the other..it didn't hurt things overall, but the damage had been done.

Relationships and flexiblity, backed up with a committment to respect the terms of the contract is what teachers and schools alike look for.  Respect means teachers being flexible enough to handle things without being compromised and schools being equally as flexible.