Topic: TEFL International Songkhla

[chesterford]

What's the deal with these guys?  Is this a scam?   They're looking for 20 teachers, but a dicky bird or 2 tell me that they are not 100% kosher.  I'm hearing about management with moody qualifications, clients poached from other agencies, and the official TEFL International allegedly crying foul.  Has anyone worked for them?  What kind of schools are they farming out to?  Do they pay on time and are they what they claim to be?

[Uncle Che]

When was the last time that Hat Yai-UP advertised for a teacher? Could it be them or ? I had assumed it ws Bruce's TEFL International, sure wish we could get Bruce on this forum to let everyone know that he is most definetely not involved, some teachers may get suckered in.

[Bruce]

It certainly is not me and that school has nothing to do with TEFL International. ?If you want to work for a school that will blatantly scam a name and even a logo from another school, go ahead. ? ?

[admin]

Thanks, Bruce, for coming here to set the record straight on the agency. An untold number of teachers have applied for the positions based on the name TEFL International. I sure you can pursue legal remedies against the agency.

[Moody]

This strange outfit is now advertising on ajarn.com  under the name "Language and Professional Development Center."  >:DAlthough he cannot even spell the damn name correctly! !
He's now claiming to have 7 centers throughout Thailand and major coporate clients??

This is misleading to any would be applicants, cant Phil do something against such an obvious sham??

[chesterford]

Had one or two bits of feedback from a guy who worked for his current setup.  They were paid on time, but this person was only on part-time with him and did not get any kind of documentation off him.  I've not yet found anyone who has worked for him fulltime, but a friend worked for this guy when he worked at Thaksin Uni's TIFL language center and quit due to various problems with working conditions.  I understand that this guy was also fired from this Uni for being unable to produce paperwork to justify expenses.

This strange outfit is now advertising on ajarn.com  under the name "Language and Professional Development Center."  >:DAlthough he cannot even spell the damn name correctly!

Yes, this is the same guy, easily checked by the owners email address.

Email Address

tiflron@yahoo.com

Gotta laugh at the description.....

Description

We are an International Education Consultancy Company with seven centers in Thailand and have over 7000 registered students with our partner schools nationwide, we also teach and conduct courses with some major corporate clients and many local goverment offices.
We are looking to appoint another 11 teachers to work in various locations, Bangkok, Songkhla, Nakorn Si Thammarat and Hat Yai.
The salaries for the positions are all 30000 THB a month for between 20-23 hours a week face to face teaching, all contracts will be for a period of 12 months and WP and Visa assistance is provided.
Applicants should have a Degree and a TEFL certificate and will need to submit a resume, a recent photo and copies of their qualifications as attachments ( not in the body of the email)
The positions are only open to teachers from English speaking countries.Couples are welcome.
Send your details and applications to the HR Department: teflthailand@gmail.com

Let's see...
International? An office in Songkhla makes him international?
Seven Centers? One man band more like.
7,000 registered students...possibly if he means the sum total of all the students in the boonie middle of Nahkon Nowhere schools he farms out to....sounds good anyway.

Send your details and applications to the HR Department:

(HR department lol!)

What a joke!

[mad_dog]

There are several real cowboy agencies working in Songkla... "LDMA" and "grasshopper" from ajarnforum.net have mentioned some before.... These guys sound new and even worse 

[Moody]

Having been "ousted" fom Ajarn.com and having to change his name. This guy is trying to resurrect himself as Tefl International at other teaching web sites, see http://www.tefl.com/jobs/job.html?jo_id=22056

Bruce, u gotta stop him, he has a tarnished and checkered rep in Songkhla and will undoubtably do the same to the otherwise respected name of Tefl international.

He's also still got signs outside his house using the TEFL international logos.

Theres enough of a problem in Songkhla with Shady Thai Agencies without unqualified and unworthy farang getting in on the act.

[Moody]

WTF!!

So a certain BV of TEFL International claims to have nothing to do with certain unsavoury characters in Songkhla..

Then Lo and behold.. On Tefl Internationals very own website...http://www.campinternational.com/en/index.htm

It would seem Mr BV does indeed have a working realtionship with persons in Songkhla

Any chance of an explanation???

[Bruce]

He approached me, asked to work with me, signed a contract to work through our Thai comany (registered in BKK) but never did.? Apparently he set up his own company called TEFL International Education Consultants but, purely for convenience,? ? wink? wink began calling his new company TEFL International...

I can assure you he is a one-man band and his student base is only the total population of the schools where he sells teachers for a 5,000 baht/month profit.? He is an agent, thats all.

Website has been changed.

[Ron]

My Name is Ron Hunter from TEFL International Education Consultants. I do not read these forums as I don't have a lot of time but a friend of mine asked me for to comment on the rubbish that's on the forum.
To start with I know Bruce has been around a few years and has many friends that will try and support him, I on on the other hand have only been back in Thailand for 2 years prior to that I was a DOS in China.
I know you guys have a right to your say and I don't have a problem with that, here is the story....
Last year I made an agreement with Bruce to build TEFL International in Thailand as he  only had 4 centers, some not doing very well( his words at the time, not mine) we agreed to put money into a new operation and I gave up a contract to the company that was worth over 120000THB a month to help develop the business on top of my investment, I was to be paid from TEFL International... 4 months later I was still waiting for my salary and the investment from TEFL International.
This was the cause of the break up from TEFL International.
I am not running a placement agency for teachers at 5000THB profit a month, we are marketing our programmes to schools and colleges all over Thailand, we do supply some teachers on a supply only basis but the bulk of our income is from our own school programmes which are paid for by the students, we have signed contracts with the schools and colleges and we have over 7000 students which pay for this service, we have also registered 3 Language schools with the MOE and we have added a further 3 centers as joint ventures with commercial colleges in the South of Thailand.

Bruce would have you believe that I am a one man ban.Todate we have staff in offices in Hat Yai, Songkhla, Nakorn Si Thammarat, BKK and Mukdahan, all of these are legal registered offices and schools.
We pay the teachers on a monthly basis on the 14th of the month, we give them a 12 month contract with paid holidays and sick leave, we apply for work permits and visas and we look to take care of the people who work with us.Can other schools or agencies say the same?

Now Yes I was the assistant Director of TIFL at Thaksin University, I spent 11 months and 3 weeks employed there, I did not leave because of expense claims/fraud as suggested and when I left the Universities/Language Centers biggest client gave me a new 17 month contract to continue with my work there, the University was not happy but , thats life,this contract still has another 8 months to go, so whatever my beef with the University it did not spread to my clients, they still support me as I give them a very good service.
I have not had any other jobs in Songkhla or Hatyai so to say I have had a chequered time there is rubbish.

I believe I have built one of the best education companies in Thailand over the space of this last year, all this was through hard work and not scamming teachers.
Bruce has said he did not work with me, what he means is he never paid me...and it was me that pulled the plug, I registered TEFL International Education Consultants and I registered my trademark in Thailand after spending over 2million baht building my business and I see no reason to change my company name, Bruce has threatened me with Jail, he has told me that he has the connections and that he will close me down and many  many more threats..I'm still waiting, he is still using his connections to try and stop me recruiting teachers, www.ajarn .com was a very good example, Phil knows the story but he is a business man and Bruce is his biggest client, I agreed not to use the TEFL International name but I was not happy that Bruce could pull these strings...
I  more than welcome any teachers or visitors to this site to come to my offices, look at the way we do business and the professional image we try to portray, our staff speak 3 languages and are all helpfull,  Go to the offices of TEFL International and compare.....
I am not here to bash anyone or another company and I will not be entering any comments after this, just to let you know why we are here and what we do...if you don't know then ask us, we are happy to help but please don't listen to gossip,
Bruce is well pissed off because we are doing well and we are not letting him scare us with his threats, I don't like the man, he was prepared to let me, my wife and baby go without food while he went on about no cash flow to pay me....and having lots of debt, I had to get money from my retirment fund to keep this company going while he tripped round the world saying, next month, next month.....
Oh by the way, we have registered offices in England and a partnership agreement in Hong Kong and China, not alot but it is International .
Please be aware that TEFL International carries out the business of TEFL Training Courses, we do not, we train Thai Teachers and have a contract to train 140 over the next month but we do not copy by marketing TEFL Courses ....this is the only teacher training we have done to date.
I know you guys will have your say on my comments and Bruce will slutter and spit but this is it in a nut shell, have fun knocking me if thats what you want to do but try and keep an open mind, it is possible to build a good business and be honest
Sorry its a little long winded and I just hope it puts the record straight

[Uncle Che]

I really appreciate that you came on here and commented on this thread. This site is about making sure teachers get a fair deal. Presenting your side of the story allows teachers to know more about your school and maybe help them get a fair deal. I would like you to keep monitoring this thread and if any information needs to be provided, feel free to post it and/or pm me.

As was said on the comment on the main blog, if you have evidence to present, feel free to present it and I will ensure a fair hearing. We are here for teachers and no one else.

[Bangkok Phil]

I'm still waiting, he is still using his connections to try and stop me recruiting teachers, www.ajarn .com was a very good example, Phil knows the story but he is a business man and Bruce is his biggest client, I agreed not to use the TEFL International name but I was not happy that Bruce could pull these strings

I need to clarify here that ajarn.com does allow Ron to post his jobs on the ajarn.com board. I just feel it better that he posts under a name other than TEFL International - to avoid the confusion for starters. Reading the above paragraph makes it sound as if ajarn.com does not allow Ron to post his jobs - and that is simply not the case.

[Notanewbie]

I am sure there are at least two sides to this story, I am kind of enjoying this "he said-she said" type of thread. Good entertainment. Why doesn't Ron just change the name to distinguish himself from this other "cowboy" outfit and the two can part ways? Or I am thinking too simplistic here. 

[Due Diligence]

Yes change your name and say why so that the word goes around that the other company is a piece of doodoo. Their are many names you could choose and I'm sure you can come up with a good name.

Maybe oter members can give you some ideas.

Onest Ron's TEFL school or
Teaching In Thailand (TIT) heehee

Ok so I'm not good with creative names,but someone could give you an idea

[Mods-Rockers]

Yes change your name and say why so that the word goes around that the other company is a piece of doodoo. Their are many names you could choose and I'm sure you can come up with a good name.

Maybe oter members can give you some ideas.

Onest Ron's TEFL school or
Teaching In Thailand (TIT) heehee

Ok so I'm not good with creative names,but someone could give you an idea

As I read Rons post he registered his company and trademark on the back of a verbal contract with Bruce. For whatever reason Bruce pulled the plug, Well my understanding of Thai contract law is that a verbal contract is full binding unless its superceded by a written contract stating the agreement made verbally. If Ron paid out the money he owns the name and if Bruce has not registered the name then its Bruce who would have to change. Of course if the names are not identical then there is not a problem unless one of the companies is a cowboy outfit and the other is an honest company then there may be friction which could easilly be sorted in the courtsI doubt the cowboys would start anything though they may threaten, but would teh honest company start, thats a question we will have to wait for the answer on.

This will be a watching brief situation for some time methinks.
Admin I pm'ed you about this.

[MrQ]

Now this is a good thread.

Why has old Bruce not responded to that then?

Come on Bruce I want your side of the story now.

[truthteller100]

I'm for Ron Hunter
Bruce why not try and explain some of the things Ron has stated
or maybe he is speaking the truth,
Threatening someone and not going through with it sounds to me like you are in the wrong and just spouting off
Phil Why can some one not advertise using their own REGISTERED COMPANY NAME on Ajarn.com ??
Is it that you just like Bruce more ??

[MrQ]

I can understand BKKPhil's reasoning.

TEFL International was here first and it could cause confusion.

I still want to read Bruce's reply to all this.

[Bangkok Phil]

Phil Why can some one not advertise using their own REGISTERED COMPANY NAME on Ajarn.com ??
Is it that you just like Bruce more ??

Bruce was here first. End of.

[hero]

  Phil, just out of interest, would you change your stance if, for example, Bruce was found to be "not telling the whole truth" here and poor old Ron had indeed been tricked/conned/let down by Bruce and was the legal holder of the name that is causing confusion.

I'm not suggesting anything, or trying to put you on the spot - I'm just interested

[Bangkok Phil]

Be honest. Do you think it's any of my business?
How is Bruce going to be 'found to not be telling the whole truth'? Do I take Ron's word for it? I don't know Bruce all that well. I don't know Ron at all.

[Mods-Rockers]

Heres an interesting scenario, if as X says he is the legal owner of A name, and provides evidence to you Phil supporting that.  If X then asks that you stop taking ads from Y who is using that name fraudulently, but you resist.  Would that not be putting yourself and your company at risk of litigation as well?

As I said before this is going to play out somehow and we will just have to keep watching

[Bangkok Phil]

As I said before this is going to play out somehow and we will just have to keep watching

Yes. Right.

[hero]

Be honest. Do you think it's any of my business?

Absolutely not.

I was just wondering.  It seems like a childish argument to me, but nonetheless one that you are (inadvertently) involved in (kind of!).  If Ron is telling the truth, he would surely be entitled to use his own company's name when advertising for staff, would he not?

How is Bruce going to be 'found to not be telling the whole truth'? Do I take Ron's word for it? I don't know Bruce all that well. I don't know Ron at all.

Clearly one of them is lying.  I guess we each will have to read into it what we will and make our own judgements (if we are interested!), I was merely wondering whether you were willing to change your editorial stance if there was more evidence available.  You are right though, it's doubtful we'll ever really know the whole truth!

[truthteller100]

Bruce was here first. End of.

seems abit one sided?

If he opened the company first, then sold it to another party or took money as a partner? ? then surely the other party has the right to use said company name?

[chesterford]

What was the story at TIFL, The Thaksin Uni language center?

As Mr Hunter admits he poached one of their only remaining clients when he left, but he does not mention the fact that he took with him 18k baht's worth of course books that the University had paid for specifically for that client, but did not use before Ron's departure. Got some people left behind in big trouble.

TIFL WAS awash with rumours of administrative misappropriation, but how much Mr Hunter was involved with this is unclear, but the fact remains that the book-keeping under his management was considered very shoddy, and he was unable to provide the incoming President with the required financial reports, which was why his contract was not re-newed, according to the version I heard. 

Other aquaintences also accused Mr Hunter of promising placements in one location, then sticking them out in the middle of nowhere.  Hardly a hanging offence, but clearly not a people person.

[admin]

This is a business dispute and as such, this thread is locked. If any teacher would like to start a thread about working for this agency in the capacity of a teacher, please do.

[Uncle Che]

This thread will continue to stay locked for the forseeable future. Anyone may start up a thread dealing with working for this institute, but this thread on the usage of the name and logo TEFL International will stay off-limits as it is a personal business dispute between two individuals. No teachers have come online to complain about working for this agency in Songkhla and I have received positive feedback about this agency from a few reputable teachers I know. This is hardly a stamp of endorsement, but this is a business dispute that TEFLWatch prefers not to enter and we will only enter it when and if teachers have sufferred at the hands of an agency or school.

[admin]

This topic is unlocked. I don't want it to turn into some kind of war of words, but I will publicly state that while I have information that I believe is very very credible concerning how the owner left in his relationship with Thaksin University, but this site is pro-teacher.

I have heard some very, very, very good first hand reports from teachers in the trench on how the owner of this agency treats his teachers, including one from a teacher who quit on very very short notice and got more than he thought he deserved for the time he taught for the agency. I think his treatment of teachers is above average, especially for agencies.

[Johnny Rotten]

Registering names?

If anyone tried to register the name 'TEFL International Songkhla' as an operating company, or brand/trademark in Thailand, I'm fairly sure the application would be refused. Thais aren't daft and unless this new company is owned by the original 'TEFL International' they would know someone is trying to ride this horse.

It's likely TEFL Int.. Son.. is only an operating name and the operating company that runs this business may well have a name completely unconnected to the words 'TEFL' or 'International'. If this is true, then it looks as if someone is trying to benefit from TEFL International's name. Why not just change the operating name?

Interesting to read that Bruce from TEFL International was complaining about poor cash flow - TEFL Int run many courses throughout the year with many trainees where they are paid in full by the trainees before courses begin. Doesn't sound true. TEFL INT may be in financial difficulties because of high overhead and over ambitious expansion, so if they collapse, where does that leave all the people with their certificate?

[anyonefortennis]

I heard something very interesting on the grape vine last night, but as yet have not been able to have it confirmed by either party.........given everything that has been said and done I can't quite believe it.

TI (the course provider) has become the major shareholder in......wait for it............TEFL International Songkhla! According to my source (a TI trainee, apparently in the know!) this happened over the last couple of days, anyone with an ear to the ground able to confirm this?

Perhaps Ron or Bruce can shed some light on the matter? Have you really kissed and made up? What’s the story?

I have my doubts, given the sh8t that's been thrown at TI Songkhla from TI and apparent TI affiliates on this and other threads.  But then Bruce is running a business, perhaps he’s seen an opportunity and grabbed it……….

Admin, given that you have just unlocked this thread.........did you know something was in the air?