Topic: Open Letter to Sarasas Ektra

[Nemesis]

Thanks for the email. I would have liked that this hadn't happened. Unfortunately, I will be required to make this letter public to the internet at large. It may not make your school be seen in a favorable light.

Sorry, we can not and will not comply with Thai Law that is in contravention of US law. The comments in question left on the website are protected speech under the Safe Harbor Provision of US law. The site is hosted in the US and it is a US based website and needs to comply with US law, not Thai law. The Thai Law you quote is draconian and violates human rights.

I am sorry that I am not able to make special provisions for Thai people, everyone is equal on TEFLWatch. I urge you to make comments on TEFLWatch, you have that right. But I can not and will not take away someone elses right to free speech away.

You may seek litigation in Thailand for any perceived offenses you believe have been committed, but you will have an unenforceable judgment. You do need to seek redress in US courts because this is a US site, but be prepared for a countersuit under provisions of the law that prevent trying to take away the human rights of Americans abroad.

My simple advice to you, is to counter the bad news with good news of your own. Have your teachers spread the good news about your school. You do have happy teachers, right?

You will do whatever you need to do, but I can't, under US law, do any actions that would jeopardize the human rights of anyone else. I know the draconian law in Thailand, and I refuse to be used as any tool to inflict harm upon another human being for merely stating their opinion.
 
Letter in both pdf and jpg:
http://www.teflwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/letterfromektra.jpg
http://www.teflwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/letterfromektra.pdf

[between myths]

Not a badly written letter. Not a great letter but not a badly written one either.

And a very nice response, Khun Nemesis.

[Mods-Rockers]

Whilst it is true that U have no love for Namtok, Retiredstillteaching et al, it does seem that his rants have finally caused Ektra to sharpen the knives. you are perfectly correct Nemisis when you state that the site is protected and Namtoks Indentity is thus protected via the site. However the school knows who he is, and can thus find him by other means. It seems that namtoks days in Thailand may be comoing to an end unless he is stupid enough to try and fight them!

Thai defamation laws are firstly criminal in nature and thus carry what can be a hefty jailterm and sadly the burden of proof often falls on the accused, the real person behind the namtok et al usernames would have to prove he was not Namtok, which I would say could be a tad difficult!

[anyonefortennis]

oh dear oh dear.

If ever there was a case of shooting oneself in the foot  .

Respect to the admin for putting the letter in the public domain.  NT (hard as he may try) could not have posted anything so daming as the letter from the Sarasas admin.

Prospective Sarasas teachers this is your red flag warning..........ignore it at your peril   

[angryfarang]

People in Glass Houses Should Not Throw Stones ( Be warned Sarasas )

Sarasas over the years has mistreated, lied and even threatened and punished its teachers. It has a simply awlful name, thats all of them, not just the ones recently mentioned. The Educational Standard is a Joke! they of course are not alone in this area, as it is a Thai cultural disease to under educate. It is however a very successful business with friends high up. The Days of Namtok may be coming to an end, but so may the days of Sarasas as it appears that the Parents might be about to sue Sarasas for misrepresentation of a contract. I.E. to educate their children. Well done Nemesis for your report. New Teachers avoid all Sarasas like the Plague, they also pay below the level of any Language School in Thailand, most if not all teachers are totally unqualified apart from the Khao San degree.

[hero]

Threads merged.

[between myths]

Khun Namtok/Retired Still Teaching--
     Sarasas Ektra seems to think it is going to huff and puff and (eventually) blow your house down. Silly posturing and a poorly thought out effort to intimidate, I think. But if I am wrong and things get shitty in a formal way, I am good for a few thousand baht to your legal defense fund. Don't let the fools win, sir -- either legally or morally. Keep speaking out!
                       With Respect, a newbie

[RobRoy]

"Namtok talks about Sarasas Ekktra School and MOST of the information is not true"

Nemesis, I would ask would parts ARE true to help you "prune" the information properly.  It might be interesting in what they say.  And, I'm not suggesting you actually delete anything due to this, but just get the info from the school.

I wonder if the school actually read Namtok/RST posts to see how well they're "appreciated", for the lack of a better term, by the teaching community.  Or have questioned why Namtok doesn't post any more.  

Lastly, as I'm sure you have, inform the school of the existence of this thread so they may comment.

[sir mouse burgher]

Well I have read the epistle in question and indeed the signature is certainly that of Pisut Yongkamol the head honcho at Sarasas Ektra .

The request made smacks of Gestapo content , you should be aware that the family who own theses Sarasas schools are not considered lilywhite in many sectors of Thai society for a number of reasons .

The school is sort of run by a mainly unqualified and arrogant Thai and Australian clique  :talkhand:intent on protecting their little fiefdoms and cushy lifestyles.

However I can say that if any one considersorking at the Sarasas schools group they must be
TOTALLY BLOODY MAD  

[Gonzo]

Just something the admin might like to consider regarding this new development.

The aim might not be to have the content removed from your site.
The aim might be to gather enough evidence of non cooperation to then apply to the courts here in Thailand to have TeflWatch blocked by the Ministry of Information and Technology as a seditious or anti Thai website.

The MICT is pretty quick on the trigger finger at the moment under the current military government. And the Youngkamol family does have some hefty connections in the ministries.

Not a big hurdle for we that know how to use a proxy server but it would mean you would be cut off from many new potential users and your valid warnings of caution will then not be read by those who really need to see them.

[RobRoy]

  Thought about that one myself, but I would think many websites could be accused of slagging Thai schools/Thai culture, etc.  Where would the MICT start....and finish?

[sabai_sabai]

Just something the admin might like to consider regarding this new development.

The aim might not be to have the content removed from your site.
The aim might be to gather enough evidence of non cooperation to then apply to the courts here in Thailand to have TeflWatch blocked by the Ministry of Information and Technology as a seditious or anti Thai website.

The MICT is pretty quick on the trigger finger at the moment under the current military government. And the Youngkamol family does have some hefty connections in the ministries.

Not a big hurdle for we that know how to use a proxy server but it would mean you would be cut off from many new potential users and your valid warnings of caution will then not be read by those who really need to see them.

Interesting thought, and having TEFL watch banned here would be bad in the short-term but would probably bring a lot more attention to the site and proxies and mirror sites would solve the problem.  Long term, I think it would actually make TEFL watch a bigger site with all the publicity that blocking it would generate.

Sarasas and BCC have had an awful reputation spread by word of mouth for years.  Before TEFL watch and it's predecessors many foreign teachers in Thailand at least knew about the reputation.  Word of mouth is probably worse than any web forum because the stories tend to become more exaggerated in time.

Sarasas should be concerned about a website that can be accessed in the West, even if it were ever to be blocked here.  They hire many teachers from overseas, perhaps because it has a bad reputation here and people overseas haven't heard.  I was called when I was overseas and the package they offered me as a qualified teacher in my home country was 30,000 Baht.  (I had a good laugh.) Seems that they are counting on teachers having as little information as possible before accepting a job.  It's in their interest to keep information about them away from prospective teachers overseas. 

TEFL watch will always win one way or another by posting the threats that they receive.  It probably generates more traffic on this site and a few more threads about the offending school/institution.  Westerners react very strongly against the idea of censorship, and trying to find someone and accuse them of slander is attempting to silence opposing opinions.  It would be wiser if Sarasas went onto the thread and refuted the posts that they believe are untrue.  Even BCC has had teachers writing posts that things are getting better.  Even when these posts are rebutted (which they always will be) at least both sides can be in writing on the board.

[between myths]

  "Westerners react very strongly against the idea of censorship, and trying to find someone and accuse them of slander is attempting to silence opposing opinions.  It would be wiser if Sarasas went onto the thread and refuted the posts that they believe are untrue." (sabai sabai) 


This soooo true.

[Sayjack]

I love the message in the letter. However, you need an editor. There are some sloppy mistakes and some usage problems. There must be an English teacher around here somewhere.

[samvimes]

Unfortunately for Sarasas, the key concept here is jurisdiction.

As the  server that his web site is hosted on is in the USA, quoting all the Thai laws will change nothing as Thai courts have no jurisdiction at all AND the right to express your opinion is guaranteed by the constitution of the United States.