Topic: What is a "fair" wage for teaching in Thailand?

[hero]

Inspired by the "crappy wage" thread on ajarnforum, I thought I would pose the question - What do you consider to be a fair wage for a full-time job teaching in Thailand?

I'm talking about a "full-time" gig, that's a 40 hour week in school or 80-100 contact hour TEFL job, they both seem to pay similar rates if you believe the ads.  I used Bangkok prices, I guess upcountry gigs come in about 15% less - you work it out!

As a newbie three years ago I thought 30k was fine, I had no experience and loads of enthusiasm   These days, three years in, I'm looking for 45k - I believe I'm worth more, although given the nature of the market here that's what I'm happy(ish) with!

I'm looking for an idea of how people value themselves - not interested in "I'm worth more than a Filipino newbie because....." - **yawn**

[Notanewbie]

A teacher, or a teaching job is in fact fairly abstract concepts that a wide range of people and jobs. What is a fair wage? There is not a single answer, there are multiple answers depending the qualification of the individual and the requirements of the job. Who is to decide? For me, a fair wage is a wage an employer is willing to pay and an employee agrees to accept. The market will decide the wages, not whining and moaning. Look at the "discussion" on ajarn.com; same old arguments by the same people year in year out? What does all the whining about low wages accomplish?  It is nothing but a silly attempt for people to place the blame for their problems on the shoulders of others without taking responsibility for their own lives. If you want higher wages, try to change yourself. Move to another country, change your job, increase your level of qualifications and experience, network etc? , these have a chance of increasing your income. Whining about "the market" is a complete waste of time. I have to wonder about the education of some of the "teachers" in Thailand, surely if they passed economic 101 they know why wages are what they are. Simple supply and demand with the availability of substitutes thrown in. Everyone knows that teaching English in Thailand is a low paid, mostly non-skilled profession. If you don't like that fact, you need to change professions, instead of trying to change the profession. I love the idea of unionizing English teachers in Thailand!  Those guys must be smoking some good weed to inspire such socialistic/utopian working class dreams. But what the heck do I know, maybe non-stop whining and crying about the overall level of wages of teachers in Thailand will actually have an impact, but from personal experience I have never seen whining and crying actually significantly improve anyone's life.

Cheers

[hero]

Well, you didn't really answer the question

What (in your opinion obviously) is a fair wage?  I'm more interested in knowing everyone's ballpark figure than arguing the toss over the rights and wrongs of the industry

Another question for everyone to ponder:  Is it any more righteous to whine about whiners than it is to whine about the job?  Please don't take me seriously, but chew the fat with me as it were

[Rick_BKK]

I think in central Bangkok you would need at least 40,000 Baht a month to have a good standard of living, without dipping into savings. However to make a go of living in Bangkok long term I think you would need a little bit more than that, so that you could put some money on one side for a rainy day so to speak. On the outskirts of Bangkok like where I live you can manage on a little less, maybe about 35,000 Baht a month, as the general cost of living is a little lower and accommodation is considerably cheaper. Outside of the major cities and tourist areas I guess you could live well on 30,000 a month.

However having said all that, I wouldn?t be prepared to work for less than 50,000 a month. If I couldn?t get that it would be time to leave Thailand and move on.

[Mods-Rockers]

Well I plumped for 35K but then I live in da sticks and have a private income from home and a wife who earns a damn sight more than me. Hero I think the question is a little vague as there are many criteria that need to be put into the pot besides what you stated:
1.   Age of teacher, the young buck straight from uni and the retiree don?t need too much I guess enough to support the lifestyle. The 30-50 something is a different matter he should be thinking about his retirement and quite frankly even 50K is not enough to support a lifestyle and a pension plan, unless said 30 something is expecting liver failure or another early death to prevent a retirement on state support back home, cos he/she will get jack here!
2.    Lifestyle, are you a few hours online, watch a dvd 5 evenings a week or maybe even UBC, eat like the locals, drink the odd beer, cheap housing, then I guess its ok. However if you are a 5 chiang a nite plus a lady 4 or 5 times a week eat only farang food, taxis everywhere 10k appt, hey you the math.

In fact there are far more elements in the mix that makes an honest answer impossible to reach. I have to agree with nota its all supply and demand and there are far too many teachers or wannabee teachers here. 

[Notanewbie]

Hero,

Fair criticism, maybe it is the term ?fair? that is the problem. After all, no one in Thailand owes us farangs one slim satang. The term fair has the connotation of a responsibility to pay at a certain level, no Thai school has that responsibility and it is a delusion to think they do. Maybe a better question would be, what is a reasonable, or livable wage, for a full time teacher. I have normally found with myself and with other I have met, both here in Thailand and other countries around the world, one normally needs about 25% more than one is making at the present time. When I first started in Bangers, I might have pulled in around 25-30,000 a month working six days a week. I thought 50,000 would allow one to live a ?good? lifestyle in Bangkok with a wife and kids. These days, I guess I overall pull in close to three times as much as I did when I started (still usually working a few extra hours on the weekends and staying late a few nights a week), but now I think one needs 100,000 to live a good lifestyle in Bangers. I expect to be around 100,000 in a year or two (working more than a single job and not teaching English with a Ph.D.), and I am sure when that happens I will think one needs 125,000 a month to live a good lifestyle in Bangers. When I first arrived, getting a free seat on the three and a half baht bus was the highlight of my day, now I am thinking of trading in the second hand car for a new one, I loved living in Thailand on 25-30,000 baht a month and I love living here making quite a bit more, and I wouldn?t mind trying living here making double or triple what I make now!  Ok, Ball park, average non-professional English Teacher (4 ear non-teaching degree and a four week certificate), probably the first year or two 35 to 50,000 is ?reasonable? and after a few years, 50,000+ would be the norm, but most teachers, at least the ones with families, work a little part-time to get over the 50,000 mark. But there are so many variables involved that even ball-park figures need to be qualified.

[noelbino]

Didn't do Economic 1 let alone pass economic 101, but hereis my Reasonable wage:
Situation  wife and 5 year old son.
18 months ago 34,000 after tax. Apartment including elec/water etc 10 to 11,000 per month
Necessary to top up monthly with my visa card.
12 months ago new job new apartment. 40,000 per month apartment 6,500 all up per month.
Visa card not necessary but couldn't whittle it down either.
6 months ago same company same apartment. second job.
55 to 60,000 [depending on cancellations] per month. Visa card only for convenience and whittling it down. saving a little each month and now and then buying luxury items ie- microwave mobile phone [maybe]
So in all that a reasonable wage for me is 50,000+

[scotmick]

So, Noelbino reckons 50,000+ to be a reasonable wage? I must agree with that, but what exactly is a 'microwave mobile phone?'
That's a pretty HOT item to keep in your pocket, no?

[Gonzo]

I posted 40,000 baht on the poll but it's a far more complicated issue than just the net salary figure.
Support from the school for paperwork processing, particularly the teachers license and work permit are very important. On top of salary a housing allowance or free decent accommodation is a prerequisite. If at a language school and traveling between centers then a travel reimbursement should be the norm. Many other factors can influence the actual net salary. I think I've covered most of the major ones.

[Nonklong]

A "fair" wage would be between 50 and 60 thousand Baht a month. The baby-sitting level wages that are offered show how much Thais value education, for the most part. 

[bangjock]

A 'fair' wage for teaching in Thailand, there is a question!

Off the plane some years ago I was quite happy with 30K ish, a lot of part time work brought this into the 50's. But what's the point when you have no time to enjoy yourself.

Now I would expect 50+K for a Mon-Fri job, giving me ample time to spend it!

I think a lot depends on experience. One new fellow I know has just completed his TEFL course, and has landed a nice job paying 42K. His job is as a homeroom teacher, teaching all subjects, so I believe that his salary is fair.

Maybe this begs another question, perhaps a little off topic, do teachers 'teaching' homeroom/math/science etc deserve more that your common and garden ESL teacher (ESL teachers- no disrespect meant!) ?

Mods: If this off topic let me know and I will start a new thread.

[hero]

Having experienced both in-school ESL teaching (matthayom, government, classes of 50 up) and a homeroom gig in a prathom school (private, bilingual, 30ish) I can honestly say it would take a far higher salary to tempt me back into the government school scenario. 

In the ESL conversation gigs you typically see 20 odd classes for one period a week, that's the same lessons over and over again with little or no materials provided - it's great if you want minimum thinking outside the classroom and are happy to leave your brain outside when you clock in.  The classes were hot and the average kids' English ability pretty low down the scale!

As a homeroom teacher you have 'your class', you get to see them 3 or 4 periods a day and you actually feel like you are achieving something (or not with some kids!), although more prep work is required and a far greater sense of responsibility to the cause is essential.  There are greater demands placed on the teacher, one is expected to teach other subjects as well as English, although my experience was that the science and maths elements, for example, were more like subject-orientated ESL classes than anything else!  I imagine this would be slightly different with older kids (matthayom).  The classroom was nicer and the kids were great and with much higher English ability!

In summary, I guess I'd say that the two are worthy of a similar wage, although I'd want more money for higher-level teaching where more subject expertise is required.  It would be nice to have a gig in a bilingual school, but without homeroom responsibility - that would be the best of both worlds I guess

ESL teaching in a language centre also seems to pay a similar reward, yet these guys generally have more prep to do and are often expected to work evenings and weekends for salary - I'm not sure if I fancy that for 40k.  Mind you I guess they don't have to get up early on a Monday typically!

[shocked]

I would suggest that you consider a few things before deciding how much you should earn.  1)  Round trip air-fare to Thailand:  let's say 40,000 Baht.  2) TEFL Course (I hope you find a good one):  40,000 Baht  3)  First month's rent, plus one months deposit:  20,000 Baht.
Okay, so now you are down 100,000 Baht--you will be here for at least two months before and if you get your first check.  Let's add another 10,000 for an all night train ride and two days in Panang, to get a non-immigrant B.  Let's add the two months rent, that will be due before you get your first check.  Now the total is 130,000 Thb.  If you don't spend any money at all on things like food and electricity you will have to work three months before you are one baht in the black.  Does this sound good to you?  Be my guest; it's a wonderful country.  But you will need to do some serious financial planning in order to stay long term and survive.

Best regards to everyone attempting to make life in the workplace more respectable.  See you at the 'Cowboy.

[jill]

you need to be careful and streetwise. I came to Thailand paying nearly 1000 pounds sterling to O.E.G. .I got put into a school in Bangkok that charged 40,000 baht a term for the e.p.kids and my class had 30 kids in it. I got paid 14000 baht a month and a poky apartment costing 2500 a month paid for, promised bonus had to be fought for when I left after my 5 month contract was up. I worked with other k.g teachers two were great the other two men were bloody awful, a south african  that was full of b.s and a pompous kiwi .thank goodness I am out of it .

[blackpanther]

What's O.E.G. ?

Streetwise yes.......you learnt the hard way didn't you? 14,000 a month??? Rice for brekkie, rice for lunch, rice for dinner and rice with sugar for supper.

[shocked]

I got put into a school in Bangkok that charged 40,000 baht a term for the e.p.kids and my class had 30 kids in it. I got paid 14000 baht a month
and a poky apartment costing 2500 a month paid for, promised bonus had to be fought for when I left after my 5 month contract was up. 

Sounds like you got screwed without any hugging or kissing

[MrTam-di-dai-di]

50 plus is fair with a degree I think.

With enough privates I live off that extra cash and only pay bills out of my salary.

I live quite well too, but I wouldn't really stay here for less.

It's all about the life style, I won't get rich here, nor do I want to be that rat on the wheel like so many of my mates in the west.

[monkey woods]

When I started teaching here the wage was 30,000 Baht per month. I guess that's a fair wage. It's certainly more than your average Thai earns, and a lot more than Thai teachers earn. Fair enough, you're a "specialist"  but how many really are? Regardless of that (I'm not qualified myself), posters here seem to be deciding on a figure they would like to earn which enables them to fund their lifestyles.

Surely, when deciding how much he is going to pay you, the employer doesn't ask you how much you pay for your apartment and how many kids you have, does he?

[hero]

  When I stated this thread I had in mind to find out what teachers consider themselves worth in this Thai market rather than what they felt they needed to survive.  In retrospect it's probably very difficult to discern between the two values - it would certainly be very difficult for anyone to admit they were probably worth a salary lower than that which they could survive on

[monkey woods]

When I stated this thread I had in mind to find out what teachers consider themselves worth in this Thai market rather than what they felt they needed to survive.  In retrospect it's probably very difficult to discern between the two values - it would certainly be very difficult for anyone to admit they were probably worth a salary lower than that which they could survive on

For some people maybe, but they aren't thinking very hard, are they. Whereas it's easy to say what you'd like to earn, it's another to honestly say what you should be earning.

I've seen many teachers who weren't worth 30,000 Baht a month. Many.