Topic: School Corruption in Thailand

[Nemesis]

What stories do you have about corruption in Thai schools? What first hand knowledge? No need to mention specific school names.

[Nick2007]

Tax fraud as a matter of course. Copying books, which is theft. I presume it goes on everywhere.

[Geekboy]

I worked at a supposed Christian School that had pirated software on all of their computers, copied textbooks and looked for any way they could to steal.

 

I can't understand how schools with money enough to throw around, violate intellectual property rights and then use the defense that they can't afford the legit.

[hero]

It's funny, since I've been working in a government (supposedly the poorest of all the schools) I haven't seen a copied textbook

The last private school I worked at were more than happy to use copied textbooks.  They usually said that they were awaiting delivery of books at the start of the semester - but often the books never showed up at all!

Plenty of pirated software at both schools too.

[diaw]

At Thailand's leading academic university - the 'well-known one', *all* textbooks are copied. In my time there, I never saw one legit version of any textbook. At the start of semester, the teachers would bring a copy of their copy of the book & appoint a class leader to have the book copied & bound at the campus copy-shop.

In fact, I was quite interested to see what the original books looked like over Amazon.

As for legitimate software licenses - I never saw one.

[IHvACrtfctImAGrtTchr]

good... the only reason those books are so damn expensive is to pay the ceo's millions in annual salaries

[Mods-Rockers]

good... the only reason those books are so damn expensive is to pay the ceo's millions in annual salaries

I take it you failed economics 101 then!

[bomha]

The last that I had heard, AUTHORS were still entitled to royalties.  Would we all like to receive royalties for every book we wrote and published?

[RobRoy]

At my first job here, I taught computer science.  I loaded my personal copy of visual basic and my Thai coteacher, who was doing his masters in ICT, commented he had never seen original Microsoft CD's before.  At that point, I was actually astonished, but now after four years, thats par for the course.

The one that amazes me is the "perks" that are provided to the school by some of the parents.  Refrigerators, TV's, microwaves,etc.  I often wondered why the school didn't kick out some of the more worthless students, seeing a new frig or water cooler explains a lot.

[IHvACrtfctImAGrtTchr]

never even took economics but I make a whole lot more than you

[Mods-Rockers]

never even took economics but I make a whole lot more than you

Well now that does show a degree of stupidity borderring on the ridiculous, So tell me, what is my income in Thailand? how much income do I recieve from my Government (mil) pension? What is my average income from invetments back home.

And anyway the above notwithstanding, I would rather be poor than gain my income by selling my booty as you do!!!


BTW, are you the great JL aka ADP aka HD?

[certified]

Corruption is a way of life here. They have no respect for copyrights simply because their own societies are too backward to produce it's own quality material. Essentially the Chinese and Indians are the leaders in this sort of theft with South East Asia copying them. They should be laughed at and felt sorry for because these are just copy economies that can't exist on their own merits. THEY JUST DON'T GET IT DO THEY?

[retiredstillteaching]

It's good to see we're back on topic.

When I arrived in Bkk from Korea and my possessions soon followed by ship, the local shipping agent advised me that Baht 3,000 to the customs officer would prevent my things from being put at the end of a long line that went thru several corners in the huge receiving building at the Port of Bangkok. So I paid and got my stuff next day.

When I mentioned this to the director of a family owned group of schools I taught for in Bkk, he he suddenly began to beam with pride and started to say, "We have a tradition..." then broke off his sentence because I turned and started walking away. He and his attitude continue to disgust me to this moment. My strongest personal objection is that the owners/managers at schools in Thailand want farang to be Thai, or more like Thais than we might already be. Ugh! 

[bluefalang]

i have difficulty getting too bent over pirated software and books.

i am aware of significant bribes being paid to get a student accepted into a given school/university and guranteed a diploma.

i also know of university employees that would, for a fee, arrange for the sexual services of unversity students.

and -- a faculty member using the services of falang teachers (under duress) in his private business.

or -- x amount of money was provided by the university to a faculty member to pay for extra teaching services rendered by falangs. the faculty member then changed the payment amount to y (after the sevices were completed) and pocketed the difference. when asked, the faculty member decribed the process as "bargaining" and delaminated at the teachers unwillingness to be teamplayers.  

[diaw]

i have difficulty getting too bent over pirated software and books.

On that score, I must say, after downloading a bunch of books through e-mule & then printing them out, I've changed my policy & am now buying legit versions through Amazon.

Have you ever worked out just how much space a bunch of poorly-copied books, housed in leverarch files takes up? It's actually a whole lot easier to read a properly-bound original.

I do use e-mule to preview the odd expensive book, & if it is worth the expense, I go ahead & order it. I feel a whole lot better doing things this way.

[Geekboy]

I agree, diaw. It's a lot easier to read the book. I download for ideas, but I prefer reading a bound book.

[IHvACrtfctImAGrtTchr]

^ you have to take it to a photocopy shop. There is one university near the airport. They will take it, print it out, and hard bind it for you. Standard fee for photocopies/printouts and 200 to 400 to bind it. I usually get a hard cover put on my copies.

As for the corruption... university students back home don't have sex for some sort of payment?
teachers don't take things from students (maybe it isn't called a bribe)?
government officials aren't corrupt?

and then you have your lack of anything in schools in particular where the teachers sit there doing absolutely nothing all day, literally.
Seems to me that Thailand is pretty similar to everywhere else.
Just some people love to whine about their own inadequacies

[fair]

I will not name the school.  My best friend went to her history professor with $100US in an envelope in exchange of passing grade.  The professor told her it was too late in the term and asked her to take the same course next quarter (yes, her school that time was in quarter system).  There were a lot more.  FYI, all these happened in US.

[bluefalang]

obviously, nonthai schools/uni's have ethical problems...but, then...that isnt the topic of the original post.

[hero]

My old headmaster went to jail for embezzling school funds.  Served two and a half years of a five year sentence

The irony of it was - he was one of the ringleaders that organised a huge march on Westminster to appeal to the Tory government for more funding for state schools!

[Minxlady]

In schools and unis, there is so much that it would take a whole book to cover it. Endemic in the society, I guess.

Even at the Big 3 universities! The biggest name place has several copying shops. Any book can be copied for 180-400b depending on size. It is blatant, not discreet. One copyshop is part of the official uni supermarket and bookshop.

M

[ajarn1970]

Part of the problem seems to be that of policing.
I'm not sure about Thailand, but back home in Oz recording off the radio is technically illegal without the consent of the radio broadcasting licensee. I have a 20 MB MP3 player with a function "record radio". The question is, who's going to notice?

At the university I'm at, there's a heap of small shops photocopying books and I've never heard of anyone in there saying "hold on.....there are copyright laws to abide by here." My university back home would photocopy NO MORE than 10% of any book without seeking the appropriate permission from the publisher.

As for passing and cheating though, well the deal is once a student has paid his / her money, a pass is pretty much guaranteed. Whether the teacher likes it or not. Often the scores are changed behind our backs and students are pushed up into the next level regardless of their ability. It's only when they fail to pay their re-enrollment fees that someone actually gathers the energy to act.

'You if money have, OK then problem no speak you English good. Worry don't the about ding dong teacher farang. Just sure make you money have pay us to and happy mak mak we can sure make to you pass.....jing jing!'

I love it 

[sabai_sabai]

One of the sathit programs at a major uni here had a big public scandal about seven years ago.  Students appeared to test into the program and only a few were admitted.  One mother who was also a lawyer had a child that was not accepted to the program and she demanded to see the scores of the students.  The university gave her the run-around but eventually the scores came out and, yes, there were students admitted that had scored lower than those excluded.  It was probably a combination of money and influence that got some of the students in.

The result was that the principal was moved from the regular program into the international program because nobody likes dealing with the farangs.  Oddly enough, that principal's English was not very good... especially for someone that earned a PhD in the US. 

[Mods-Rockers]

As for passing and cheating though, well the deal is once a student has paid his / her money, a pass is pretty much guaranteed. Whether the teacher likes it or not. Often the scores are changed behind our backs and students are pushed up into the next level regardless of their ability. It's only when they fail to pay their re-enrollment fees that someone actually gathers the energy to act.

 

I hate to shatter all your illusions here 70, but Whilst the above as a generalization may hold true in many cases, it is certainly not a 100%er. I have 3 students this semester, all with student numbers starting with 46, all doing the same module for the forth time. If they fail this year they have been told that all their 1st year credits fall out of the bottom of the envelope and they are starting to run scared. The shame of it is that they have again just breezed through the semester and only now with finals drawing neigh realizing that they do not have enough for a D- even if they ace the final.

[ajarn1970]

Mods,

It probably is more a generalisation as you say and I should've stated that.

My university actually fails them too and some students are taking the basic English course for the 4th or 5th time. Some give it up and go off to a university which is somewhat more "sympathetic" for want of a better term  .

There certainly seems to be a disparity between the schools and universities though and my perceptions allude me to conclude that the school arena is a great deal more cut-throat business wise where they don't want to see students pulled out and placed in schools which will pass them. There are not as many universities though and the private university I work for has as many as 5 applications waiting to be processed for every student that actually makes it so they can afford to have the attitude of "OK thanks.....err....bye".

It's a mixed bag but we know what the majority of this bag is full of hey?

Cheers

[ThonburiTim]

Strange topic.  Most foreign teachers at Thai schools are part and parcel of the corruption that is taking place at any school with a prestigious or competitve EP or MEP program.  By this I mean that school directors are consistently taking 50,000 or 100,000 baht to let an unqualified student in to the programs.  (It was 50,000 at the school I recently left, where parents are now engaged in lega action against the director for misuse of EP money). For officials at the MOE, they often let family members in for favors and political goodies and don´t take any cash.  Where this cash goes....one can easily guess...our director had a newly remodeled office and lots of new toys around, including a huge lot of land that he bough with EP money.  Why do I say EP and MEP teachers are part of this? Because they are the bait.  And at the school I was at, Potisarn, the corruption was as deep and dark as anywhere...as half or more of my colleagues had no degree or fake degrees but the parents were never told this.  The director and EP coordinator knew quite well of this, and even had a meeting with several of them to tell them just not to talk about it and he would take care of it....sitting directly across from a teacher with a fake MA and BA in education with the fake documents and proof they were fake right in front of him on the table. 

[7baht]

Amazing,

you guys actually have printed material hahahahahah.
I cant count the schools that failed to provide books and or workbooks for the students in the english program. Hmmm like having a book will cause the parents to protest the cost.
The lack of proper material being provided is capitalized on by the so called WBs companies in Thailand. ohhh WB = Warm Body.
 Question? what do 65 thai students do in a classroom with no books? hahahahaha

7baht

[RobRoy]

Question? what do 65 thai students do in a classroom with no books? hahahahaha

The same thing 65 Thai students do in a classroom WITH books

[Thai Me Up]

As long as the kids learn the latest King-worship song, everything else is "mai bpen rai."  In a kingdom, it's essential that the peasants remain uneducated.  Anyone disagree?   

[RobRoy]

Thanks TMU!!!! 

As long as posters like you are here, it makes the professionals look that much better!!! Please, keep posting!!!!  In fact, you can join the school corruption thread with Mods and RST...it will be a fun place for us to exchange off topic opinions about each others ancestory, teaching skills and my personal favorite...badmintion skills...if you can't play badminton ...well, you need to find a reason to live.

[Thai Me Up]

RobRoy,
I do admit that most of my students come prepared to school with a badminton racket.  No textbook mind you, but a badminton racket.  No motivation to learn English, but a badminton racket.  No English skills after 9 years of study, but a badminton racket.

As for anecdotes about corruption, other than the mindless endless shameless cheating that is the modus operandi of all our students, I can't think of any good stories to share.  Oh, my Bangkok govt school doesn't have a CD player, rooms are filthy (no cleaning staff), language "labs" broke 30 years ago, no TVs or DVD players, no WB markers or erasers, no xerox machine...but I wear my "I love the King" shirt so everything's cool.

[Mods-Rockers]

No motivation to learn English, but a badminton racket.  No English skills after 9 years of study, but a badminton racket.

Tie me up, I do hope you don’t mind me slipping in on the side of this tête-à-tête, but it strikes me that one of the responsibilities of a teacher is to motivate them to learn and not to whine about their lack of motivation! Maybe the fact that they have no English skills after 9 years of study point more to non motivational teachers than to non motivated students!

[Mods-Rockers]

Oh, and before anyone tries to tear me a new asshole over the above, I am extremely pro teacher, but not pro charlatan teacher!

[Thai Me Up]

Oh Miss MR Havisham, dearie, have you considered that your Depends is now full and needs changing, because the shit has piled so high it's flowing out of your mouth again.

In my school, the director has decided that Mandarin is most important, so we now have 3 Mandarin teachers and only 1 farang teaching English - that's me.  The Mandarin teachers are subsidized by their own government, so the director only pays them lunch money as a salary.

Working conditions are deplorable - two open construction sites on either side of the building where I teach.  And yes, English is NOT promoted at my school, so the students are not motivated to study.  Some battlefields are meant to be abandoned, and this is one of those instances.

[Minxlady]

Yes, the cheating is shameless. When I worked at a leading public uni, it was rife in exam rooms. Direct eye copying as well as cribsheets, cuffs, etc.

Plagiarism when writing essays is universal. Various websites and cheatsites are used. The Thai teachers generally don't look for it, or penalise it.

I spent years fighting a one-woman battle against plags. I lost.

M

[Thai Me Up]

Yes, the cheating is shameless. When I worked at a leading public uni, it was rife in exam rooms. Direct eye copying as well as cribsheets, cuffs, etc.

Plagiarism when writing essays is universal. Various websites and cheatsites are used. The Thai teachers generally don't look for it, or penalise it.

I spent years fighting a one-woman battle against plags. I lost.

M

I've always believed in Maslow's hierarchy, the path towards self-actualization.  What I can't wrap my mind around is how polite my Thai students seem to be and how shame-free and guilt-free in their cheating.  How do I reconcile politeness and no sense of integrity?  Minxlady, I've succeeded in very difficult teaching situations, but some battles cannot be won.  Then it's time to pick up the tools and exit the battlefield.  How could you possibly win a war against plags in a society that prides itself on knock-offs.  I'm giving up on govt schools and looking towards FT corporate work now.  As for the expose on corruption, that's another war that will never be won in LOS.

[RobRoy]

TMU...with teachers like you don't you think the Thais would think Mandarin is a good idea?

[Mods-Rockers]

Oh Miss MR Havisham, dearie, have you considered that your Depends is now full and needs changing, because the shit has piled so high it's flowing out of your mouth again.

Ah yes a well crafted reply that fully addresses the point raised NOT!

In my school, the director has decided that Mandarin is most important, so we now have 3 Mandarin teachers and only 1 farang teaching English - that's me.  The Mandarin teachers are subsidized by their own government, so the director only pays them lunch money as a salary.

So you seem to be implying here that the fact that Mandarin has been emphasized at your school, and that additionally the outside funding provided to the Chinese teachers by their government totally absolves you of the necessity to motivate your students to learn the subject that you are employed to teach! You really do need to consider what RR says above!

Working conditions are deplorable - two open construction sites on either side of the building where I teach.  And yes, English is NOT promoted at my school, so the students are not motivated to study.  Some battlefields are meant to be abandoned, and this is one of those instances.

I totally agree, when the abilities of your troops are not up to the requirements of fighting the battle then a strategic withdrawal is the only option, giving needed time to regroup, retrain and thus be in a position to win the next battle.

[chuck_S]

And your point is....

[Mods-Rockers]

Well chuckie, if you cant work it out, WTF shou...

[7baht]

reading along this thread was good. I actually realized it wasnt just my school or me as a farang to notice heaps of goods and services being sliced up by the part time Supers and Henchmen.

The story will be a simple one. On 2 occasions i have had the pleasure of admiring how some officals make their extra money from school, barring the constant streams of mobile markets at the school doors. Fish ponds! nice method, sound reasoning,great business plan. Rent a back-hoe if need be, dig a hole , fill with water, purchase a few 1000 baht worth of baby fish , use school funding to feed the fish , use students to oversee the day to day operation of the fish ponds, then in a few months call ur buddy with the vaccum water truck from the city and hose up the fish and off to the market. Instant Gold. Students can write a summary on the adventure.

2nd story is less appealing, using students on a day trip that thier parents paid for to plant mangoes on the Super's family farm..lol..that one was very clever.