Topic: Chiang Mai University Language Institute

[ghecko]

I read a report about the Chiang Mai University Language Institute at

http://languageinstinct.blogspot.com/search/label/Chiang%20Mai%20University .

Do any other teachers have comments to add ?

[lone ranger]

I can see why BV and TI were attracted to CMU! 

[Thighlander]

I read the link; very damaging.  About a year ago, I was in Chiang Mai and met with "Dr." Kay.  Then the cost of the course was 48,000 Thb, but he was willing to give me a 10% discount.  He seems to have been successful at turning English teaching at one of the top Universities in Thailand into a pay to work scheme.  I've heard from their students that the course was very thorough.  Those that take this course will find their job prospects to be no better than those, who went to Text & Talk, or even BV's piece of shite course.  Chiangmai is one of the best places to live in LOS.  It easily could be one of the worst to teach.  It's way over saturated, and the cost of living is lower than BKK, but much more than Isaan.

The clincher for me not taking the course was when he was "bragging" about a person from London House School of English coming to his class and offering everyone in it a job.  Therefore he could boast 100% placement.  The problem was, that I had interviewed with the NNS, Filipino piece of rat turd, two weeks earlier, and the job was something like this:  You arrive at the LH center one hour before class starts, you are transported to a government school to teach for two hours, then you are transported back to LH.  So, from the time I left my house, until the time I returned, I would have made 500 Thb in 4.5 hours.  Give me a fuxing break!  That was the same job that the CMU TEFL grads were getting through Dr. Melonhead.

I also noticed diception in what Melonhead told me.  On that day, his Phd. (stands for piled higher) was from the University of Hawaii.  I think he chose that school, because it would be one of the most unlikely to run into someone from that school, who actually went there.  But, guess what?  A former GF of mine in America had attended a private school that was right next door to the main campus of U of H.  They actually shared the facilities.  He had never heard of Chaminad College, which is probably the most well known private school in Hawaii.

I love CNX, and the CMU campus is beautiful, and it is a great school.  Will I pay to work there?  Hell NO!
Go there to find a nice GF, but for your own sake; do not even think about teaching there.  I know it is a shame for the fine young women and men, who are students there, but shiite, we got fuxin' bill to pay.

If you want to go to CNX, kick back, get a 100 baht per hour massage, or a 320 Thb "short time," be my guest; it's a wonderful place, and they are generally tolerant of the falang--even the "smelly backpackers."
If you want to teach; go to Khon Khaen, Lopburi, or someother less falang inhabited place and make the most of it; you might just fall in love with it.

Sheers everyone--best of luck; don't be taken advantage of.  38,000 Thb is a lot of money in Chiangmai, and that's not how much you will be making--that number will be closer to 20,000 per month.

[Thighlander]

"Dr." Matt, has an ad in the Chiangmai Mail.  He gives his phone number as xxx-xxx-xxxx.  Will someone give him a call and ask him to come on here and clarify things for us?

[Mods-Rockers]

Why dont you!

[bomha]

My friends in Chiang Mai tell me that most of the TEFL courses there, and perhaps everywhere, fill the  seats with middle aged bums.     The demographics are there.  You don't have to be a native speaker or a uni graduate to be taught by them or any number of other courses.  Check the websites of the providers.  Do all the CELTA providers require a uni degree?

Everybody from my friends to posters on all the message boards confirm that wages for TEFL teachers in Chiang Mai are shite.  It is unanymous.  Nobody brags about making the big money in Changers. 

There were rumours about Matt's doctorate from day one.  Rumours, tumours, bloomers. It seems that the TEFL scene in Changers was very competitive.  Cuthroat.  Rumour-mongerish.

[bomha]

Checking the CMU Language Institute website, guess who is still listed on their faculty:

http://www.teflcmu.com/index.php?active_page_id=24

[wake]

.



Yo! Doc,

Does the word "paragraph" mean anything to you?

Where is your dissertation published?  We all sure would like to have a gander at it, eh fellows?


wake


~

[Matt]

I have been tossing up whether to reply to this or not. But as Mr. Peter McKenzie-Brown chose to involve others in a highly slanderous way, I believe it to be best that I say a few brief remarks. I am the aforementioned "Dr" Matt talked about in such length in Mr. Peter McKenzie-Brown's blog.

Let me start by saying, some time ago I provided documented proof of my degree to CMU. It was throughly checked by them and found to be completely in order (I know exactly who started the rumours about my academic qualifications - and you are right "Bomha" - it can be a rough and rocky ride in the ole TEFL world!). Besides, I have never taught or held ANY position at CMU that would require a Ph.D, so I am not sure what Mr. McKenzie-Brown point is (for the record, I do NOT teach any of the TEFL programs, I am NOT qualified. We do employ a number of trainers who ARE HIGHLY qualified). It all may have to do with (something that Peter McKenzie fails to mention in his blog) the fact that Peter was FIRED from his position at CMU (the exact reasons will remain private - but let's say for demonstrating the same kind of lies and gossipy nastiness toward his work colleagues that he does in his blog to such a degree that he was asked to clean out his desk and leave the building immediately). Now, I can understand him being upset and so attacking me and attempting to bring my academic qualifications into doubt (I have been working at CMU for almost 4 years now - I mean really! I answered and completely settled these rumours about my degree a 1 1/2 years ago - and Peter Mc Kenzie-Brown KNOWS that!), but calling me a "psychopath" that borders on the hysterical.

His blog was posted on April 07 and at that time was laughed off as a somewhat weak attempt to do damage to me and the Language Institute. However, for the record, I would like to make a few points absolutely clear:

1) I do NOT receive 50% of profits from the programs for foreigners (I wish!)

2) I receive a commission per student ONLY for the TEFL program AND I do NOT receive either a salary or a wage from the TEFL - all up my monthly income is about what a full-time teacher would get in CM

3) ABSOLUTELY NOBODY at CMU receives any kickbacks or money from the international programs at the Language Institute, CMU (Mr. Peter McKenzie-Brown really goes TOO far with this allegation. It is one thing to involve me - I am a big boy I can look after myself - but to involve innocent people who have worked for CMU for many years and to besmirch their reputations out of sheer spite really is low, Peter! And, cowardly, only something Peter chose to do AFTER HE LEFT THAILAND - thus, giving none of those people the opportunity to defend themselves, or indeed, prosecute Peter in a Thai court of law)

4) I try to be absolutely honest with people about the course, what it requires, and their chances of finding employment in CM and elsewhere.

5) Yes - I did swear at a student over the phone once. I lost my temper, I am not proud of it. However (again Peter is selective with the details) that student and I are, if not quite friends, are quite friendly now and have put the whole thing behind us (something that Peter is well aware of).

6) Our TEFL program does not and has not EVER entered into any commission deals with language schools nor do can we guarantee the work at those schools. The best that we can do is offer our estimation of what is fair deal for a teacher. We DO NOT have any agreements to provide students to schools. We DO NOT, nor have we EVER, said that we can place 100% students in teaching positions.

Finally, we have worked VERY hard to offer a high quality program which will prepare students to teach in Thailand. At the same time, we have endeavoured to raise the conditions for ESL teachers (when we began the Language Institute initiated a 450 baht a hour rate for our teachers - which is pretty good for Chiang Mai). If anyone is really that interested, I invite you to come and visit me at the Language Institute and I would be happy to show documented evidence of exactly how much money I draw from the TEFL program (it really is not that much - if it was I wouldn't be teaching 7 days as well!) I am more than happy to chat to anyone about teaching in Thailand and I will as honestly as possible tell you what to expect. I will also tell you if I believe you even need to do a TEFL or if our TEFL is the right one for you. Anyway, that's it. I will not be entering into any more discussion about on this matter on this forum. But I am happy to talk to anyone in my office or on the phone regarding any questions you might have about the CMU TEFL Program.

ps. I am NOT a psychopath - I am just an Aussie!

[you're right - much easier to read - thanks, Wake. BTW -- http://www.nla.gov.au/usq/theses. Happy reading. If you like that check out: www.thenakedwanderer.blogspot.com]

[bomha]

Booha here.  Or la bomba.  Actually, bomha, whatever that means 50 km southwest of Launceston.

Actually, a friend of mine used to work with the aforementioned Dr. Matthew Kay in Thailand, even before he became a Doctor.  Her description of working alongside Matt and sitting in the staffroom next to him for one semester, and briefly ever since, is that he was always a gentleman.  And the rumours about the tumours in his bloomers.....not true.

[Thighlander]

Dr. Matt,

You've made some good points.  However, your link does not work.  Could you please state your academic qualifications on this thread for us to see?

[samvimes]

I don't think it's our place to check academic qualifications, it's up to the university or school.

I applaud Matt for responding and I think it's a rational and reasoned response. 

[Matt]

My entire academic career goes something like this: at 17 years old I could neither read nor write (well, a little bit, but very very badly - I'd left school at 14) at 19 I auditioned and was accepted to NIDA (National Institute of Dramatic Art) in Sydney, Australia - got thrown out after two years, but managed to pick up reading and writing skills. Bummed around for years trying to pick up acting work - married a famous Oz actress - Lenore Smith (was in the Flying Doctors for seven years) - you can google her - I think her fan site mentions me - at 33 (I am 46 now) divorced now, I wandered into a small regional uni - Southern Cross Uni in Lismore Australia - did a couple of years of undergrad there and did a lot better than I thought I would - moved up to the University of Queensland to study philosophy and religion - finished my BA and did an honors year - did a honors dissertation on Eihei Dogen - Japanese founder of Soto Zen - got a Ph.D scholarship that was half paid by UQ and by UH (university of hawaii, East/West Centre, Manoa) - I came to Thailand in 2003 with a few months of writing of my thesis to do ("Existential and Ontological Dimensions of Time in Heidegger and Dogen" - there is a book by Steven Heine of the same name - a major oversight by myself and my thesis committee (but who would have thunk it!) - so sometimes you will find my dissertation as "Aspects of Temporality in Heidegger and Dogen") - anyway, I taught English in Chiang Mai at that time (180 baht an hour at CEC). And, I think that this is where the doubt lies - I went home in 2004 to defend my thesis and because I missed Thailand so much came back to teach English as a "Dr." (apart from the fact that I am pretty much a boofhead and no one can believe I have a doctorate!). Anyway, I was awarded my doctorate sometime in 2004 - don't ask me when - I think May. It seems to me it would be pretty crazy to pretend to have a doctorate so I could teach English for 350 baht an hour! I teach English for 350 baht an hour because: 1) I really like my Thai students, 2) I think my coming late to the English language makes me empathize a bit more with them, and 3) most importantly, I have a great Thai wife (who wants to stay here) and a beautiful 16 month old baby girl both of whom I have to feed! I have probably given away enough now to become the victim of identity theft! Cheers .... Dr. Matt!

[Good2b-happy]

Don't worry Matt you're not the only illiterate Ph.D. in Thailand.
Unless you got it from Abu Dhabi lol.

[ghecko]

Thanks for your reply, Matt.

The link to the page at NLA (National Library of Australia) doesn't work, but you can go to their homepage http://www.nla.gov.au/ and search the site. Typing in "Heidegger and Dogen" brings up the following:

Libraries Australia - 3 found

Heine, Steven,1950- Existential and ontological dimensions of time in Heidegger and Dogen /by Steven Heine. Albany :State University of New York Press,1985. details...

Heine, Steven,1950- Existential and ontological dimensions of time in Heidegger and Dogen /Steven Heine. Albany :State University of New York Press,c1985. details...

Glass, Newman Robert. Working emptiness :toward a third reading of emptiness in Buddhism and postmodern thought /by Newman Robert Glass. Atlanta, Ga. :Scholars Press,1995. details...

Anyway, comments about the programs are probably more important to most of us. It would be interesting to hear more from teachers who have taken the tefl course or taught at the Language Institute.

[Minxlady]

Having a PhD doesn't mean a lot. A lot of the PhDs I know are very up their own tails (for no good reason). They have "researched" (often paraphrased or drawn inferences about) something very specialised (say, the inside of a gnat's anus) for four or five years. In the TEFL field, they do something useless like "Dipthong Utilisation among Amish Farmers with Cleft Palates" or some such drivel.

I heard about someone (a yank or a limey) who had one from the University of Uzbechistan. He was a complete idiot, according to my sources. Not all places have the same rigour as Harvard. In some places, you can get by if you suck up to the PhD supervisor. Yes, and you can buy a PhD. The University of Rushmore (USA) advertises in the Economist (even). It will dispense MAs and PhDs based on your "life experience".

As a colleague, as a teacher for a Thai friend, or even for Teacher Training, I would always hope for someone who had a lot of experience and the "knack". You either have it or not. Most PhDs I know don't have it. Two of the best teachers I know here in LOS have BAs or BScs only. One does not have a CELTA. They have loads of experience, and watching them is poetry in motion. A friend of mine worked at one of the top three unis here, and I hear that many of the Thai PhDs are also a joke. She told me that Associate Profs and Assistant Profs (the Thais like to call themselves these names) WITH PhDs used to come to her all the time with basic queries about tenses (etc)

It is true. Having a PhD is not the be-all and end-all. Don't worry if you don't have one. You will be a better teacher without one.

M

[bomha]

Me cousin is the only bloke I ever knew, what said he didn't want his mother to ever call him "doctor" after he earned his Ph.D.  I say even if Dr. Matt has his Ph.D. in wallaby forking, we should call him doctor.

Me lady friend, what actually knows Matt Kay and actually taught with him, says he's all right, and they never forked, either, and he was a good teacher.  But this isn't about Matt's teaching, is it?  Is he a competent administrator at CMU?  He is, by definition, if he's still on their payroll.  The bloke what started all this commotion is no longer on the payroll.

Who knows ten graduates of the course at CMU?  I mean, well enough to have professionally judged their competence in the classroom?  Who knows ten graduates who have judged the course at CMU?

[Thighlander]

Dr. Matt:

In post number 8 you state wages of 450 Thb, per hour; in post number 12 you say 350 Thb per hour.  I knew wages were falling, but 22% in 83 minutes?

[hero]

It is true. Having a PhD is not the be-all and end-all. Don't worry if you don't have one. You will be a better teacher without one.

Hmmm.  Not sure if I agree.  Pretty sure that there are good and bad teachers with PhDs and good and bad teachers without!

Fair enough to say that a PhD doesn't necessarily make a good teacher - but quite different to say that a PhD will necessarily make an inferior teacher!

[hero]

I'm locking this thread here, there is enough information for readers to draw their own conclusions about the place.  It will be reopened in future should any new posters come forward with new information.

It won't be reopened for morons to post crap, sorry Anna Key your post is in Sour Gripes - feel free to whinge all day long in there!

Hero