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Author Topic: Chokchai School, Lad Prao  (Read 4855 times)

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Offline ben

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Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« on: March 03, 2006, 09:55:46 pm »
A private school in Lad Prao area, my experiences are similar to that of Bangkok Christian College, rioting kids, the kids run the school basically, as I suppose a lot of places in Thailand. I'd say exactly the same as what has been mentioned in BCC's thread except they are ever so slightly more tolerant in that the management won't get rid of you immediately should the parents, staff take a disliking to you for whatever reason. Usualy you'll ask a student to do his/her work and they won't do it and then the management ask as to why the kid is failing his/her subject. I suppose that's the whole deal with Asia in general it's difficult to actually get a productive lesson and quite literally you have to entertain the kids, i'm finding these days that lessons are pretty hit and miss, somedays they can go fantastic and at other times you'll have an abismal lesson, usually class sizes of up to but not exceeding 25 students tend to be more enjoyable but if theres one mischievous child then the lessons a disaster.

To the point though, the school deducted a weeks wages for being late on 11 occassions throughout the month, I suppose I deserved to be deducted 1/4 of my salary for that???? on top of that I was given a 3 month contract to start with, meaning I could be convieniently released from the school pre holidays, the fact was that I had put up with a 3 month contract tolerating the fact that everyone else there would be paid for their holidays, put up with having to come in to school during holidays for completely unrelated tasks and then fleeced out of 9500 baht which I thought was completely out of order, they are only couteous and fair to you depending on how much money you can create for them.

I heard that staff that were dismissed previously held M.Ed's, a total of 5 of these people were dismissed on the grounds that they had tried to do there jobs, the other trouble with them is they'll tell you your s**te in a roundabout fashion, they are eager enough to recruit you at the start though.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 02:17:27 pm by ben »

Offline ben

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2006, 11:46:36 am »
Actually I don't know why I had 9500 stuck in my head it was 5500 for special classes and 7000 for the 4 days work, it's not like I did bugger all while I was there either. Fact was that I was contemplating leaving about a 2 months before all this took place and when I told the management I was told that I had to work until the end of March, convieniently the time when all the kids break up for school, they move the goalposts constantly too, for instance I was told right at the start that I had to work on a 3 month probationary period only to be told that would be extended to 4 months, there was some bo**ocks about a CTTP Certificate of Teachers Training Proffession they wanted me to pay 50K Baht for which after attending for one day I told them I didn't want to continue, thing with that was that I had asked both managers if my contract was going to be renewed if I attended it (concerned that I might just be wasting 50K baht for no good reason) and they ummed and arrhghed answering my question with more questions until I finally got the honest answer out of them which was "no" therefore I explained very politely that I didn't feel that this CTTP would benefit me in the long run and I couldn't extend my budget to cover it, therefore further proceedings meant that I was deducted 12500 baht. ???

Anyway that was my personal experience, it's a good job if you don't mind dedicating your life to it in reward for 40K per month plus the special class money ofcourse and don't mind double standards etc.......


« Last Edit: March 06, 2006, 11:56:01 am by ben »

Offline Bangkok Phil

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2006, 07:16:15 pm »
I take my hat off to you Ben. It takes real balls to slag off a school when you were late 11 times in a month.
If you worked for me you wouldn't have made it past the first week.

Offline billyjenkins

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2006, 08:58:30 am »
I have actually heard about this school from a friend. They are extremely strict wih time keeping. If you are even a few minutes late it gets noted and your wages get docked. He also said the same as Ben. They try and sign you to a three month contract to feel you out and then extend the contract by one month if you are not 'entertaining' the kids enough. The after school program is only for teachers who the children like. They only care about making money and the welfare of the teachers comes second.

Offline Bangkok Phil

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2006, 10:34:43 am »
Late is late if you have a classroom full of students waiting for you. I remember stepping in many times to teach a class whose teacher hadn't shown up. Then ten minutes later, when he eventually arrives you have to perform this embarrassing changeover in full view of the students. Not good. Not good.

I may be coming at this from the wrong angle but what's wrong with making teachers sign a three month contract? Isn't it called a probation period at some places?

Offline Notanewbie

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2006, 01:18:31 pm »
Late 11 times in one month!? Is it any wonder why Thai administrators often think of their foreign English teachers as unprofessional buffoons and treat them so poorly?

Second, what is wrong with being an entertainer? Think back to your school days, who were the teachers you liked the most and learned the most from? Dollar to donuts they were the most entertaining teachers. There is nothing the average teacher can teach a student that is not to be found in the textbook, the teacher?s job is to bring the material alive and engage the students, all of the students, even the lazy ones. Anyone can teach a good student, but it takes a real teacher to teach the underachievers. Yes schools do expect you to teach all of the students, and if a student fails, the teacher failed. It may be all the fault of the teacher, but still the goal was not obtained.?

So basically you are whining that your school expects you to show up on time and do the job you are being paid to do well. Is that it? So this would be a better school if it allowed the teachers to come in anytime that pleases the teachers (all teachers or just the privileged white skinned ones?) and didn?t care if the students enjoyed their lessons?

Yes, I can see the constructive nature of your posting.

It is only the school that cares about money and not about the education of the kids? Late 11 times in one month sure shows your dedication to the education of the students and the rest of your posting shos a lack of caring of your own personal finances.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 01:26:07 pm by Notanewbie »

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2006, 01:38:48 pm »
Late is late if you have a classroom full of students waiting for you. I remember stepping in many times to teach a class whose teacher hadn't shown up. Then ten minutes later, when he eventually arrives you have to perform this embarrassing changeover in full view of the students. Not good. Not good.
Have to tatally agree with your here BP (maybe i should start using phil, BP make you sound like a service station) Tardiness is tardiness and deserves to be punished, but I believe that schools should make the rules on this clear in the contract.
I may be coming at this from the wrong angle but what's wrong with making teachers sign a three month contract? Isn't it called a probation period at some places?

Here I and I believe the Employment law are not in agreement with you, the 90 day probation applies to a 12 month or longer contract, and if the contract is renewed there is bno requirement to do another probation period. A 3 month contract would only demand a 2 week (I believe) probation period. This is purely another method being used by schools to exert extra control on farang (you can bet your bottom dollar that these rules aare not applied to Thai teachers), and if you think they are fair and offered it to me to sign I would be politely telling you to stick it into your well penally investigated anal oriface.
P.S. that would be the term i would use, I have no idea if said oraiface has ever been investigated either willingly or not.  ;D ;D ;D

Offline ben

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2006, 02:21:51 pm »
Yes your right

Fair comment, me and the manager had agreed on 5.5K though, that was my disgruntlement really, I also made up for the lost hours by working in the evenings, did that on many an occassion.

I kind of lost my enthusiasm with them and didn't give them a care in the world when they tried to entise me sign up for the 50K deal but told me that I wasn't having my contract extended, what kind of nonsense is that ? I thought, anyhow. I told them "No Thank You" on more than 10 occassions, ofcourse waking up at 5am to get to work for 7:30am didn't seem that attractive I guess.

Anyhow the lateness issue I guess settles that matter and deservedly so the other 7.5K gets docked.

Don't get me wrong mind, other than money issues with Chokchai, it's a brilliant school, it has loads of resources, books and what not, some schools I have worked at don't even provide books, I kind of prefer that though as "your not just a face at a school" your actually a brain there to teach a subject, this way I find if I need to cover 3 topics during one lesson (because of lack of understanding) it can be achieved i.e. you build the lesson entirely rather just covering topics through pages in a book (the book ofcourse assumes that the student has learned the previous lessons(ur-hum)), it's my personal preference, ofcourse, horses for courses though. I guess realistically I wasn't personal suited for the job, I was just demotivated hence the lateness issues ofcourse it's not proffessional but there's only so much ********* a man can take.

Excuse me

Ben
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 02:39:35 pm by ben »

Offline ben

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2006, 03:01:06 pm »
Bit harsh (unproffesional buffoon), I didn't explain at the start though that we had already agreed upon an amount to be deducted for my tardiness, I certainly didn't feel privelleged working there and I worked past my clocking off time on numerous occassions to prepare for sports day, christmas, Loy Krathong, etc etc. I did dedicate a lot of time and effort to that school more so than a lot of the Thai teachers, admittedly coming in late for lessons is a bad impression to make for students but all the fill in teachers got paid for it out of my pocket. it's the other 7.5K or 4 full days of work that was my disgruntlement, Yes mate that's why i'm "whinning"?

Entertaining the kids hmm, it's debateable I suppose, I find personally my lessons are better when I proceed in this format (I teach Pratom level), chorally recite vocab, spelling it a few times, deal with the phonetic sounds (if any), test the kids on the words now memorised and read through a few sentences using the Thai Translation as well, get the kids to record both new vocab with Thai translation and also sentences, a few examples of sentences that contain those new words learned, then we proceed with words that are similar. I find this helps with those students who frequently jumble up letters, kids who write b instead of d and vice versa. I motivate the class to finish there work by marking the books individually in the classroom (most times), at the desk of the student and try to enforce a no copying policy to ensure the students are studying new topics.  By the way I get class members to come and write thai translations, I tend to avoid visual aids as in actual articles and use drawings on the board for Pratom 1 and 2. I will have a bit of a laugh with the kids and use a game as a motivator to get the class to finish their work further enforcing lessons but generally I think I am sided with traditional teaching methods as the kids can get a bit out of control. Another reason why I tend to sway away from visual aids just to add is that I find certain individuals make reference to pictures rather than words, one experience where it could have got me into trouble was when my pratom 2 exam paper was suspiciously tampered and contained drawings which didn't relate to the words, thankfully the P2's were well aware of the meanings of He, She, They, I, we, you and it so most of them answered the questions properly. I tend to find that the pratom level kids read each word independently  which sounds terrible so I try to pass on the concept of reading ahead translating it in their heads and then reading the sentence out aloud, I personally find that this trains them to think of the translation and recognise sentence structures which differ to Thai grammar structures, and coaches them in conversational English too. I think that's a lot of dedication to students, I also don't just try to teach the good kids I offered my services free during lunch periods for those who failed the spelling tests, the management were shocked with my dedication, like they said from the start it was only a 3 month contract.

I just feel that regardless of the fact that I had come in late since I had dealt with that issue with the managers that I should have been paid for those 4 days for the work that I had put in, by that time my contract had expired and I was more doing them a favour by sticking around.

From a constructive nature though, I would advise that if you are to take a job with Chokchai, they are recruiting now by the way and the salaries now over 40k with special classes thrown in, just be careful with those 3 month contracts and special class money, ofcourse make sure your on time too. LOL

Ben

 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 08:03:53 pm by ben »

Offline ben

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2006, 03:52:28 pm »
I take my hat off to you Ben. It takes real balls to slag off a school when you were late 11 times in a month.
If you worked for me you wouldn't have made it past the first week.

If i had worked for you in the first instance I probably wouldn't have been late, my new manager now is awesome, he's on the level, I respect that a lot, 12500 baht is a lot of cash come on Phil? And if we equate that to time, by jesus!!! Let me put it politely, it doesn't come close to those precious minutes I had missed, anyway Phil don't mistake me for having disregard for them, I worked hard for that cash, damn hard! And all along I felt they were leading me up the proverbial garden path, it was just tiring mate and I couldn't be bothered with their nonsense but they wanted me to work up until the holidays and wouldn't find another teacher even after I had asked them nicely too as I had by then found another job which would give me a contract and not mess me around. There's quite a bit more to this mate, I know exactly what the score is. Anyway just to add (mind this sounds pompous) I am very hard working, diligent, dynamic concientious and usually self motivated, probably too much in fact.


Ben
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 06:38:03 pm by ben »

Offline Notanewbie

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2006, 04:41:18 pm »
Ben

Go luck with whatever comes next. Obviously you didn?t think this was a bad school as you were looking to extend your contract. I guess it became bad when the school decided they didn?t want you next year. If you sign a three month contract, all the school owes you is three months. I did not screw you by not offering you a new contract. From your post, I have little doubt that the school had a good reason to not want to offer you a new contract. Remember, the school was not created for your benefit. Any employment situation to be sustainable needs to both meet the needs of the employee and employer. Chances are, the school did not hire you to run the school or to change the entire system of education, and I bet they were looking for an English teacher not a school manager. I believe many of the problems teachers have in Thailand is they forget the needs of the employer. Has to be win-win. Try to find a place that fits your needs for your next job, don?t take a job that doesn?t fit your ?serious? teaching style and try to change the school to fit your needs, it doesn?t work in Thailand, The USA, The UK Canada, Korea or anywhere else unless you are being hired as a top executive with the mandate to radically change the system. Many an English teacher has come before you and attempted to change the entire Thai school system to meet an idealized version of a western school, and all have failed. What do you think your chances of success are? A school in Thailand doing things the Thai way does not make it a bad school. It makes it a Thai school, if you don?t like working in Thai schools try to get a job at one of the few true international schools or go home to teach. You should take a few moments to think if being an English teacher in Thailand is really what you want to do. It is not for everyone, if fact, it?s not for the majority. Poor pay, little social status, fairly non-challenging work, etc? are facts of life for a career ESL English teacher. Best of luck to you, but remember, it is much easier to change yourself to fit the world?s needs than to try to change the world to fit your needs.

Offline TEFLAsiaMan

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2006, 10:24:33 am »
Though I can?t condone tardiness in any form, I have to agree with the post made that the school focuses mostly on entertainment over education.  Absolutely no decision is made unless the owner agrees to it so the management structure is convoluted at best.  Finally, the weight that the parents bring to bear on the program is tremendous so the school is constantly switching gears to appease parents who aren?t happy?the result being other parents who are not happy with the changes?cycle?cycle?cycle.

I am curious to know what the CTTP (Certificate of Teachers Training Profession) because I can find no reference of it anywhere online.  Anyone familiar with this?

Offline ben

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2006, 05:14:13 am »
Ben

Go luck with whatever comes next. Obviously you didn?t think this was a bad school as you were looking to extend your contract. I guess it became bad when the school decided they didn?t want you next year. If you sign a three month contract, all the school owes you is three months. I did not screw you by not offering you a new contract. From your post, I have little doubt that the school had a good reason to not want to offer you a new contract. Remember, the school was not created for your benefit. Any employment situation to be sustainable needs to both meet the needs of the employee and employer. Chances are, the school did not hire you to run the school or to change the entire system of education, and I bet they were looking for an English teacher not a school manager. I believe many of the problems teachers have in Thailand is they forget the needs of the employer. Has to be win-win. Try to find a place that fits your needs for your next job, don?t take a job that doesn?t fit your ?serious? teaching style and try to change the school to fit your needs, it doesn?t work in Thailand, The USA, The UK Canada, Korea or anywhere else unless you are being hired as a top executive with the mandate to radically change the system. Many an English teacher has come before you and attempted to change the entire Thai school system to meet an idealized version of a western school, and all have failed. What do you think your chances of success are? A school in Thailand doing things the Thai way does not make it a bad school. It makes it a Thai school, if you don?t like working in Thai schools try to get a job at one of the few true international schools or go home to teach. You should take a few moments to think if being an English teacher in Thailand is really what you want to do. It is not for everyone, if fact, it?s not for the majority. Poor pay, little social status, fairly non-challenging work, etc? are facts of life for a career ESL English teacher. Best of luck to you, but remember, it is much easier to change yourself to fit the world?s needs than to try to change the world to fit your needs.


Hmm I agree with a lot of what you said but not all of it, I now get paid a thousand baht more per month for working ***Eighty hours less***, to me being new to all this, that's absolutely shocking. Still yes definately check out those contracts to start and suss it out before you decide on a taking a job with them, and when you do decide to leave them, make sure it falls smack on payday and there's nothing they are left owing you.

CTTP is a way of turning a degree in say Archeology into a teaching degree , it's 14 credits, it focusses on teaching metholodgy, religion in Thailand, school systems and is offered by a University in Thailand this certificate is recognised by the Ministry of Education and (i forget the name of it) Kubasas or something similar, it's alright I guess having one but I couldn't see how it made anyone a better teacher for all the kids throwing Tipex at them (that never happened to me by the way). I just saw it as an additional sales point for the parents really.


Offline Tainted-Teacher

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2006, 11:37:09 am »
  The after school program is only for teachers who the children like. They only care about making money and the welfare of the teachers comes second.

I have heard that the after school money is split 70% to the teachers and 30% to the administration.
Is that right?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 11:42:41 am by Tainted-Teacher »

Offline traveler

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2006, 10:26:58 am »

So overall, is this a decent school to work at? (besides being docked for being late, which is acceptable depending on the situation.)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2006, 10:54:52 am by traveler »

Offline Thighlander

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2006, 09:54:14 pm »
A private school in Lad Prao area, my experiences are similar to that of Bangkok Christian College, rioting kids, the kids run the school basically, as I suppose a lot of places in Thailand. I'd say exactly the same as what has been mentioned in BCC's thread....... they are eager enough to recruit you at the start though.

Yeah, sounds like a great place to be employed.

Offline IHvACrtfctImAGrtTchr

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2007, 09:30:40 pm »
Ben,
Late is late. My school is 1 absence for 3 lates. It isn't about the time. It is about the teachers that have to replace the tardy staff member and the student's education that suffers, but hey, people have their bad spells...

As for the school, I hear it a load of siht. They had five or so p3 teachers for their EP this year. I know kids that have studied their for 5 years and their English is worse than other p2, p3 students...

outside of that, I remember them having 50+ students in K3 when they were telling the parents only 40 (technically, they weren't lieing). When the ministry came in for evaluations about 5 or 6 years ago, they actually took kids of the classrooms to be observed and stuck them into the nursery. This is from Thai teachers that work/ed there. Funny how the first khroo yai is just a regular staff member too. Must have no self respect to go from khroo yai to regular ole teacher instead of just going to another job.

Khroo Keow is your runofthemill school owner, out to make money shamelessly. But with all those new binlingual and international schools opening in the area she is feeling it now... I though Thais learned about karma being Buddhist and all... 

Offline RobRoy

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2007, 10:55:41 pm »
I've heard good things and bad things about them.  My wife gives private lessons to one of the students there.  His English is good enough to spend a month in India over the break with little or no problems.  But at times past the students has be confused about his homework and expectations for tests.  Its almost like several different people are giving him directions as to what is expected.

Offline IHvACrtfctImAGrtTchr

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Re: Chokchai School, Lad Prao
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2007, 07:08:20 am »
care to mention the students level?

 

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