Topic: When your co-worker flies into a raging bull for no apparent reason

[ben]

I wouldn't say I am completely difficult to work with but check this out, just for a laugh if nothing else:

Just to say I am not naming any names or bitching just want to find public opinion on this one.

So it's a Friday, and the afternoon, i'm helping a colleague sort out his parent's reports, I designed a system that requires little data entry to save the folks sometime, that actually is another topic (the system got completely ripped apart and opposed by some, it worked well but people wanted to make a fuss, so fair enough I wasn't selling it to them just offering it as a gesture of good will) anyway back to the original story, I was running late for my class so I went into my classroom and the art teacher happened to standing at the front of the classroom with what appeared to be the children's work, it appeared he had finished teaching otherwise ofcourse those papers would not have been in his hands?? Anyway my other colleague is there too, I happened to have a thumb drive (data carrier) with the reports that needed to be printed, while the art teacher was closing up his lesson, I happened to try and print the reports for my other colleagues, I had to help him do that since these computers have this virus which hides folders so he was unable to find the file to print them out.

No worries, but one of the students got over excited and started bellowing in my ear "TEACHER, TEACHER! COMPUTER, COMPUTER, TEACHER, TEACHER" anyway the whole class were at which point kind of out of control so I started to address the class and regain control, at which point the art teacher starts f-ing and blinding saying "this is the second time, motherf**ker, the second time" in front of a class full of 7 year olds, at first, well, anyway I was shocked to say the least and thought the guy was messing around, so I said "Urgh?" slightly confused, then he started to seem all the more serious so I repeated "calm down" a number of times before he grabbed a wooden chair and attempted to launch this weapon at me (still in full view of 2 co-workers and a classroom of students) all this because I had addressed the class? At which stage I was well and truly confused and shocked also appalled in all honesty, anyway it worked out that one of the co-workers had opened the door and was telling me to come down stairs since she happened to be scared and he booted me (with is foot, literally) out through the door.

Anyway she happened to be pulling me down the stairs, I wanted to confront this problem since I really was clueless to what was going on and how possibly I could have enraged the guy so much so that he threatened to beat me with a chair, on top of that verbally abused me and booted me through the door.

Anyway my co-worker happened to be there too and told me that he would speak with this guy because it was well and truly out of order, after I had explained that most people at the chair throwing stage would have belted him one and ofcourse this is my boss, although (f**k) or at least a semi-boss as he's well in with the american fellow and in some way shape or form is involved there somewhere. Anyway it got to the end of the day and I waited in the staff room to confront him again about it, in fact I apologised to him saying, "look mate, I have no idea what I have done but what is the problem?" anyway he started to explain "when i'm teaching, I love my job, i'm in my zone, that was the second time you have done that to me" to add I am the homeroom teacher in the two top classes who happen to be some of the naughtiest and to give an example, one day we had a student that did not complete 35 pages of work over the course of 3 or 4 weeks so I happened to be disciplining them, also to add the art teacher is one of the new guys so I felt that I would ask the students to be quiet on the previous occassion and pay attention to their teacher.

Anyhow basically the guy in my eyes was completely out of order and I really feel like telling him if he ever threatens me again that I am basically going to defend myself, regardless of who he is, to top that off as well, none of the new agency guys (with which he came from) now will talk to me since they feel I am actually at fault, i guess, confused?

My questions to you are:

1> Am I truly to blame?

2> Seeing that it was in fact my time to be teaching them do I have the right to discipline my class?

3> What shall I do on Monday should I get the sack?

4> What would you have done?


Kind Regards

ben

[beenaroundawhile01]

seems more to this story than meets the eye "victim?"

[sabai_sabai]

The teacher's lesson ran late, but sometimes that happens and until he's done, it's his class.  If that happens too often or he goes on too long, you should find a way to talk to him about it without letting the class know that the guy can't tell time.

I tend to get a little annoyed at teachers who interrupt my class when I'm teaching, but sometimes it's important and can't be avoided.  Even though it sometimes bothers me, I'd NEVER even voice my displeasure in the slightest in front of students, ever.  Those times that I need to go into another teacher's class while they are teaching, I do my best not to override the teacher's authority.  So if a student looks over and talks to me, I quickly put my finger over my lips (the shhh sign), point over to the teacher and never talk to the student in the lesson. If there is an important announcement that needs to be done for the class, I'll ask the teacher's permission or pass it along to the teacher.

What you did could be perceived as overriding that teacher's authority even though you were not intending to and trying to help out.  But, generally teachers that are the most sensitive about protecting their authority are the ones who are the most insecure about it.

The Art Teacher was completely out of line in his reaction.  He should have had a quiet talk with you (preferably after the first time) or waited to speak to you later.  Anything that could be said about your actions pales in comparison to his. Having such a short temper is not a good thing for a teacher and this may indicate a real problem with him.

Who knows what the other teachers from "the agency" heard from him about it and rumors generally get more colorful in the staffroom.  There's really nothing you can do about the rumors except to watch your behavior carefully towards the people who are talking.  Eventually, the rumor will go away and people will see how you really behave towards co-workers.

If you really do get the sack (which you shouldn't) be happy that you no longer work at a school that allows teachers to behave towards other teachers that way.  If anything, he might get sacked, especially since you were not the only one there.

[Thighlander]

Ben,

Your situation really sucks; and truly struck some nerves.  I had 50 minute classes that were interupted as many times.  Students coming and going to the nurse.  Mothers picking up their kids early so they can squeeze in a fingernail job before the Friday evening madness, the infinite line to the pencil sharpener, and those bathroom "emergencies", etc.

It was the end of his Art class.  If you had come in the middle of an important lecture, and made a lot of racket, I would have been disturbed, but would never have cursed, yelled, or assaulted you.  And even then, having to repeat instructions to members of the class is as much a part of school as smelly toilets--it's a way of life.  The loser assaulted you--period. 

I believe the remedy will depend on your worker status.  If they got you a "B" a WP, and a TL; then it's going to cost you to change jobs.  If your working on a 30, and get paid on the last day of the month, I would do a runner on the 30th.  Don't give any notice.  Crappy teaching jobs are way too easy to get in BKK.  If you are all legit, and think you can stick it out (they sell pepper spray at Sala Dang), you have got to mention this to your supervisor--perhaps, in writing.  If it's them vs. you; get out ASAP.

[ben]

Yeah,

Your right, however I did not think that it was all a big deal coming into the classroom at that stage and taking over since I was 10 minutes late (unlucky so I was), although maybe the last time I might have been a bit brash but in all honesty the kids were wild so I was merely trying to help him out, I know better now and in the future will just leave him be.

Anyway I am trying my best to avoid conflict since it would seem they don't want a lot of us there, they sacked the whole agency before but kept on a few and it would seem that this is standard practise out here so maybe it is down to them not wanting me around anyway, I have already started looking around for other work just incase the proverbial hits the fan, it sucks somewhat because I was kind of getting used to that school.

Also to add I do not want to see the other guy lose his job at all but seriously you know if someone is going to treat you like that too many times then you cannot let them get away with it.

They also told me how the last person they worked with whom they did not get along with, they happened to stick his toothbrush up his rectum as a joke, which I hope to god I never have the displeasure of experiencing.

You know they asked me to work unpaid overtime one saturday, we are doing a trial for the ministry and they wanted us in anyway the boss happened to mention this particular guy and said he would be coming in too, I gt there to find in fact they did not need me there and that the other guy had not shown up (weird, they said he would) anyhow I happened to leave my telephone there which my boss picked up and I am positive he went through my messages, this is not the Art teacher mind but unluckily I had sent an sms to my mum which was a little brash which had said that " the @@@@ was working us to the bone" it is in fact the truth since when he took over was just prior to the school holidays and he made us work without extra pay to write up a whole years worth of lesson plans, in fact it also so happened that things weren't evenly distributed there either.

Your also right about not giving a @@@@ about getting the boot although I really wanted a glowing reference from them hence working so hard last year though, looks like that's gone down the swanny too, unless I can get one of the directors to do it, if they would??

Anyway I guess the moral of the story is people can be extremely sensitive about certain things, and westerners certainly do have different mindsets to easterners so you've just got to be really careful.

Seems so stupid to get sacked for addressing a class of students though hey?

regards

[ben]

I reckon it's going to go that way, I really don't want to give it all up though till I have paid some debt I have accrued, what's the worst they could do if I deal with the situation as diplomatically as possible and point out that I had no evil intentions which is what the guy was telling me I was doing.

Man all of them having it in for me, wow that is something to look forward to on Monday, plus the other side of the coin is that either way they will come out of this smelling of roses.

I hope it isn't like that, I preffuously (excuse my spelling) apologised to the guy too, even though I felt assaulted, and kind of asked his intentions by telling him if I rile him that much in the future just to let me know, anyway the look on his face at which point was that of someone not willing to except that whatsoever.

We'll see


p.s please excuse spelling mistakes and poor grammar, it is late and I am tired, I have re-read it and a lot of it sucks (grammatically and structurally I mean)

[bomha]

The story, as it's been presented here, appears nearly incredible.

A) Teachers here and back home are not supposed to argue in front of the students.
B) Nobody in Thailand, including the school owner, has the right to initiate violence against a teacher.
C) I think you should calm down as much as possible.  Then write out what happened in chronol. order, clearly.  Take your account to your boss, but don't submit it as a written complaint.  Tell him what happened and demand an apology from the offending teacher, in front of the boss and the teachers who witnessed it.
D) Keep calm, take the high road, and if you don't get an apology, take the highway out of there.  Any employer who allows a battering employee to remain at the job is criminally negligent and probably even more insane.

[ben]

That much is apparent, there is something really suss about the whole thing, I think there is more going on myself and with nobody answering their telephones now I get the distinct impression that they are putting the onus onto me, actually after the incident had taken place and to remain diplomatic and kind of calm the situation down, also because I was really confused at which point when my phone rang and my boss said that the art teacher had contacted him I said "yes, my fault" and he replied "right, ok, well then call me at 4:00 pm and explain the whole thing, in anycase I have contacted all of the new employees including the boss and they will not answer their phones??

This was even after the time that I had apologised to this guy basically for doing my job and after I had said "in the future if there is a problem, just say" to which he replied with an infamous grunt as if to say "your not staying around" completely unjust.

Anyway after I apologised he apoligised too but even then his excuses were 1> when i'm teaching i'm in my zone, 2> he felt I was messing with him (wow, we have been having lunch together and allsorts) anyway it would seem from a rumour I had overheard from another guy that works there, the parents think the new guys are a little lazy and the pressure mounted on him, I do myself a hell of a lot of work there, I take care of all the electrical equipment, even the janitor has me doing silly jobs that supposedly she must do, I am the homeroom teacher for prathoms 4 and 5, I teach science, english and math, I write all the computer syllabi, I mean there is no book that we follow I make worksheets and the like too, I write detail and outline lesson plans for all science levels, even those I do not teach, I teach the evening classes for no reward, I do the vocabulary boosting sessions for 4 and 5 during the same periods, gate duty, a whole lot of work, they are getting me to come into work on the weekends to do some other stuff, it just seems the more I do the less they like me which says to me that they are wanting me out but without saying so since the thai staff had asked to keep me when they recruited the new agent, the thing there is that last year there was a philippino homeroom teacher in 4 and 5 also a technician to repair computers, so since I am undertaking their roles too they must be saving in excess of 60,000 baht per month which means I must have a certain value.

Man the whole place sucks I guess it is about time to jump ship, shame because I do have a work permit, non b just no teacher's licence yet since apparently the curriculum has yet to be written by the administrators, I have paid for it however and do have a reciept so???

anyway I have applied for a bunch of positions so hopefully something might come of those, we'll see, what happens, thanks for your keen interest and words.

regards

ben

[Andy]

Whoa, man. Ok, you were kind of out of line goin' into the classroom and overstepping the bounds, but you didn't deserve the response. Yo, dude, you did the right thing by apologizing even though he was out of line. I'd let it all drop. but if the prissy little violent Art teacher keeps it up or decided to go to your boss and your boss sides with him, then I'd jump ship. It aint ever gonna get better, but you can do better.

 

[ben]

Yep like I mentioned he is a kind of a boss there anyhow,

Sucks big time, since they are the new agency, they've come in, he attacks me and now i've got to look for a new job because no doubt these people aren't going to let it slip, I get that feeling because like I said I apologised prefuously to the guy and he still grunted, and I tried to contact them back and they aren't answering my calls.

Mind saying all that no doubt the pay is going to get messed around with too, you know another thing that sucks is that he booted out the other agency and all the staff, then we all got put back onto probationary periods, ofcourse with them being connected and working for the guy previously i'm the one who gets shafted although we have to wait and see what happens tomorrow.

I'm kind of getting sick and tired of it all to be honest I thought teachers were well respected people, it's hard not to get jaded, being worked like a dog then treated like one on top of all that, phew I am quite cool tempered I guess, I think most people would have lost their rag with them by now.

[anyonefortennis]

Ben, to be honest mate I think one of your mistakes is to agree to do so much, give em an inch and they'll.............

Fine if everyone mucks in together, but if you're the only one then you have two problems, a) the Thai staff will use you to do more and more 2) the Western staff will think that you are trying to score points, kiss ass etc. and won't trust you.

Regarding the art teacher, a primary school is no place for a thug, zone or no zone, he should be out on his ear and sent to do drilling at a boot camp somewhere or other.

It seems the more you write the more things you're pissed off with at the school, perhaps it's time to move on, try a new challenge, go somewhere where they use chairs for sitting on rather than lobing at each other.

[ben]

It is not so much I am pissed at them but I was uneasy about the whole thing, got to work today and by which time the art teacher explained what happened, basically it was put to us that we were both at fault, which I agree with since we're in Thailand and there is a ranking system so I had overstepped the boundaries therefore he had kicked off because it was a loss of face thing, I will be so much more careful in the future, and have started walking on egg shells all around the place, not as brash as before apart from the kid who was getting beaten with a stick by a fellow student, I stopped that since I was the only adult around at which time.

Anyway I think the art teacher appreciated I didn't intentionally try to overstep him, and just out of proffessionalism it will be better that I adapt to suit the system, he seemed pretty pissed with himself to be honest and I guess he was expecting some kind of commupance from either me or somebody else, i'm big enough to let it drop, I just need the peace to be honest and whatever makes life easier for me is a blessing.

Thanks for the advice by the way guys, actually the boss was pretty thankful for me coming into work so I guess at least there is a little appreciation there, and that can go a long way..

regards

ben

[sabai_sabai]

I do myself a hell of a lot of work there, I take care of all the electrical equipment, even the janitor has me doing silly jobs that supposedly she must do, I am the homeroom teacher for prathoms 4 and 5, I teach science, english and math, I write all the computer syllabi, I mean there is no book that we follow I make worksheets and the like too, I write detail and outline lesson plans for all science levels, even those I do not teach, I teach the evening classes for no reward, I do the vocabulary boosting sessions for 4 and 5 during the same periods, gate duty, a whole lot of work, they are getting me to come into work on the weekends to do some other stuff, it just seems the more I do the less they like me which says to me that they are wanting me out but without saying so since the thai staff had asked to keep me when they recruited the new agent, the thing there is that last year there was a philippino homeroom teacher in 4 and 5 also a technician to repair computers, so since I am undertaking their roles too they must be saving in excess of 60,000 baht per month which means I must have a certain value.

It seems that the teacher (or any kind of employee) that extends themselves to this extent in the workplace is the one that always gets screwed and will never be valued as much as they are worth.  I guess employers just figure that these people's good natures are to be taken advantage of. 

Sorry to sound so cynical, but I've seen it happen often.  I'm not advocating being lazy by any means. It is possible to do a great job and still insist on having weekends free or just set reasonable boundaries for others' expectations (after all it's really the kids, not administrators that ideally are there to be helped.)  If you do decide to stay, I'd suggest that you slowly start refusing to do extras until you've scaled back your responsibilities to a reasonable amount.  It may not go over well, but at least you're not attacking colleagues with the furniture.

[retiredstillteaching]

The matter of reasonable boundaries is a vital one. For instance, during the second week of the present school year I'd begun my lesson in a class when the Thai English teacher walked in, pro forma asked me if she could do something (I didn't understand exactly what because of her awful English), I pro forma agreed, then watched her procede to distribute the "Student Weekly" zine to each student. Of course each student started flipping through the pages of the paper and talking. Meanwhile, the Thai English teacher sat at the front of the room and started chatting with students immediately in her vicinity.

With my class and the lesson both gone, I packed my books and materials to advise the Thai English teacher that the class was now hers entirely. She followed me onto the veranda but I kept walking, only turning my head over my shoulder to remind her that I'd given the class to her for the whole of the period.

Back at my desk, I phoned the farang boss to advise him of the events and developments. I since haven't seen the Thai English teacher in the particular classroom or anywhere near it. I took my course of action despite the fact that the particular teacher last year had a nervous breakdown and was darting about the school and grounds with a knife until disarmed and taken to hospital, where she spent the remainder of the school year.

There are certain things everyone needs to be clear about. Reasonable boundaries is one of the important ones, so I'd seriously consider the salient point sabai_sabai makes.
 

[ben]

yeah absolutely your right that was not my intention at all and like I said I walk around on egg shells now since the incident, most people are cool with my entrances, I think they are really glad to get out of the classroom sometimes, but for sure I wait and apologise everytime I enter a room now, waiting to be introduced.

You know what started the techie stuff was the fact that I am in fact the computer teacher and the computer teacher from the thai section explained that was part of my duty so to speak, actually the new agent is pretty reasonable it would seem but his orders are his orders and ofcourse the Thai administrators work hard so we are expected to have a double output in a sense I guess, I am sure however at this stage I am good for business for them since I am doing a fair amount of work for my salary and they would have only have had to pay out the extra 60k so it would seem that way, they are pretty nice to me in a certain sense.

I guess really I have made my bed so I must lie in it, but I do see how not so much the school but the parents try to increase my workload for me without any real need, it would seem, I do all the ministry mandate but there is the additional stuff at times, mind saying that some of the kids are good as gold and I really do not mind going the extra mile for them, I guess that is just part and parcel of being a teacher out in Thailand, and I don't think the parents quite comprehend how much work we have to do in preparation for lessons etc, lesson plans, worksheets, syllabi, review tests, mid terms, finals, parent reports phew the list does go on.

Your advice has been taken on board guys and is appreciated, to be honest I was a little worried to begin with but it would seem I might be able to ride this one out, we'll see.

regards