Topic: Culture license

[ajarnnormal]

Hi everyone. Nice to be back. Has anyone heard of this one? I was recently asked to fill out a form at the school I teach at applying for a Culture License. I was told that it is now another requirement for the MOE and WP. I gave 3 pics and copies of my passport but did not actually sit a test. The license is valid for 5 years so I am told. Hardly seems to natch all the other documents you have to have with a WP for one year a TL for three years etc.

[hero]

Well, mate.  We all were asked for 500 baht for something like that.  They sent it away with a few copies of stuff and that was the last we heard.  As far as I know everything was OK, there has been talk of a test but nothing concrete.

I've heard similar stories from others.

[airpuka]

thais dont even have a culture, thats just an excuse to have the white man pay for everything


real thai culture is
gamble,beat up your wife, rip off foreiners


and yes i am synical

[RobRoy]

Air, are we having a bad day?

[RobRoy]

AN,

I heard a while back in order to get a TL you would have to have a course in Thai culture if you had been teaching for less than 4 years at your current school.

A culture license, perhaps the management was thinking a TL and getting aquainted with Thai culture was part of it.  Beats me dude.  I contributed 500B last November to the TL fund and haven't heard anything yet.

[ben]

Yeah, I did that the same time too, that's what it was! i've got some booklet, but it is all in thai, actually I might take another look at that on Monday, see what it's all about, perhaps I can get it translated and fill you in on the details, hmm interesting a thai culture licence, I guess actually they have this skyscraper (well something like 20 floors) near pin klao which provides the basis of thai culture for all the students in wherever possibly thailand maybe bangkok, they are really strict, did you see or hear about the model who got banished, sacked, flocked because she wore a dress which was deemed inappropiate to thai culture standards, hmm I won't voice my opinions, however it would seem that possibly we're going to have to sit some more exams, interesting, I guess from my experiences I have learnt the hard way about thai culture so possibly it might be worth 500 baht if we actually do get to learn something that aids us in someway shape or form.

[Geekboy]

The longer I stay in Thailand, the less I understand about Thai culture.

[Sadly-confused]

The longer I stay in Thailand, the less I understand about Thai culture.

Try marrying a Thai, even worse a sino-Thai, it gets worse

[dwwin]

thais dont even have a culture, thats just an excuse to have the white man pay for everything


real thai culture is
gamble,beat up your wife, rip off foreiners.......

......hit and run accidents, DUI , helping foreigners falling of balconies , backstabbing, paying for good grades (I think it's called corruption ), etc, etc......

No, I'm having a good day, as always.

[ben]

I think it's called wild, scum like behaviour, I do not think all Thai people are that way inclined though, I mean sometimes their civility is extremely over the top.

If you observe some Thai's behaviour you will see there are some good natured people, it would seem the jai yen yen approach sometimes has a negative effect though because they are too polite to mutter their grievences, they will approach you but in a roundabout fashion, then all of a sudden they are really annoyed and I think it might be frustration that leads to some inappropiate behaviour.

Then in another aspect of Thai culture the young cannot question the authority of their elders which is really nice for the elders but sometimes detrimental to progress (without suggesting there's anything wrong with current progress) as you've heard of the infamous "you cannot teach an old dog, new tricks." Again, I guess frustration might play a part in inappropiate behaviour.

I guess a lot of people in Thailand could be seen as being repressed, frustrated and ill treated, it would seem that when a human is treated properly he or she too treats others in the same respect, ofcourse then there's jealousy and other human traits that turn people into swindlers etc, I guess what i'm trying to say is that if everything in Thailand was more balanced then I think there would be a lot less carnage and destructive behaviour as a result.

People being helped to fall off balconies, well if there is any truth in that then I see that as murder and I cannot condone that, you hear a lot of stories though, wild.

[RobRoy]

Sad to say Ben, but some of the stories are true.  A Swede was found dead today...cause...death by som-tam (he got the shi_s).  The other common way of death here is stepping out in front of a bus accidentally.  About 3 years ago had a coworker got his arm and leg broke that way. 

[ben]

  talking of which (the nastiness) have you seen the thai soap operas, I know they're hard to manage but you've got to watch them just for the comedy factor, they are obscene, you know I do admire people like, I can't think of the fella's name, played for man utd, has a bit of a temper, starred in a few movies, snatch etc, begins with J i'm sure, anyway this guy is pretty nasty but the nastiness displayed or portrayed in the soaps is just so passive in comparison, I think in the west we just daren't act in such a manner in fear of getting a few broken bones and a severe kicking, I think i've gone off the point slightly, but Thai's tend to focus on unnecessary (forgive me if i've spelt unnecessary wrong) things such as hurt that little insect and you'll surely have the same back to you someday, well not to put that down at all, but a few fundamentals of nature suggest otherwise such as prey and predator, one just can't take that approach to life since it simply has it's downfalls.

To sum it all up, I don't care that much for spending 500 baht on a culture licence if I get something for it ofcourse, which maybe we won't except the what was it a sixth of a piece of A4 stating names and such, a booklet, who knows hey, anyway I would have rather have had a good meal or a few beers (whoops sorry) for my hard work but I guess possibly someone else is enjoying that privellage, oh well I guess maybe not, we shall see. At the end of the day though boys it is still just 500 baht so no point (I guess) losing too much sleep over, I think to be honest i'm coming to the conclusion like so many that we are slighty undervalued here, does anybody agree?

Anyway for those who have been killed through falling off balconies (possibly helped) and the likes, well my heart is with their families and if the Thai culture way (if your bad to others, then you'll suffer too) does ring true (who knows hey) then fk yeah, although what is that, certainly is no consollation for loss of life (something we can see and appreciate). Then again those without money (i.e those that killed the young women from wales, last year, do truly suffer for their actions) then there is some justice however.............

Regards

ben

[ben]

Man,

That is truly sickening you know, if true, I mean, it's tragic, but yeah a lot of what is being said and what has been said to me through other posts, fk man, it seems there is little respect for life whatsoever in this place, sh__e, wtf man, in fact why the fk are we here, I don't mean to start a debate, but I am of the opinion that perhaps the best option is to stay the fk away from the place, it would seem a lost cause so to speak.

I have to say that really my heart does go out to all those who have suffered and I am truly lost for words.

Sincere Regards

Ben

[ajarnnormal]

Have you noticed how the turn on the Thai culture like a tap when it suites them. " Oh that is against Thai culture" Then stab you in the back.

[certified]

Some Thais want to supervise you culturally. This of course makes them the superior. Recently a Thai woman at our school was given a little tiny room to teach Thai language to 3 years olds once a week.  She now acts like she is the room owner, and wants everyone to take off their shoes among other "requests".

This is Thai culture to some Thais, treating non Thais as if our culture were nothing at all and can be ignored. There is very little real cultural consideration given to us. To the Thai, its our way or the Highway! We really seem to be subjected to the worst they can get away with, without a fight breaking out. One of my students today told me Thais are always fighting with one another over being disrespected and slighted. So what they say, and write on paper about themselves are 2 different things.

[ajarnnormal]

I have put it all down to insecurity. How can a nation that has been subject to coup after coup and blagged by every government feel secure. So we get the backlash and they put it all under the banner of Thai culture. You guys all ask your students to ask you questions and I can guarantee one of the questions that pops up is, "What do you think of Thai culture?"

[anyonefortennis]

You guys all ask your students to ask you questions and I can guarantee one of the questions that pops up is, "What do you think of Thai culture?"

To be fair AN, that's not excatly unique to Thailand - students I had in London from Spain, Germany, France, China, India etc. etc. all asked the same question regarding their culture (regardless of if I had visited their home country or not), the easiest to answer of course was always the French.

I think an understanding of our students culture is essential to delivering relevant and meaningful courses and to help with course and examination development etc. etc. however, there is one major floor in this........what I consider to be Thai culture and what my students consider as Thai culture seem to be miles and miles apart.

[ben]

You know on that point in buddhism, it teaches that you get what you get in this life and it's down to past actions in a previous, therefore a student might be more willing to accept they cannot do something, as silly as it sounds because most are really competitive but you do get the odd few that really just can't be bothered, don't you find?

[bomha]

Any farang who has been in Thailand six months knows about wats, wais, respecting The King, respect of elders and teachers, etc.  Thai food, Thai geography, and a few other things are not needed in order to teach English or physics.  It is absurd to require farang to take a test in Thai culture when the Thai teachers of English cannot pass a test in Western culture.

[airpuka]

call me crazy but arent we teaching ENGLISH? why the hell would we need to know about their messed up culture to teach the students english. if anything we should be teaching them our culture. I SWEAR TO GOD all this is is a way for some slimy issan gambling rats in power to make an extra 500 baht a teacher.

[ajarnnormal]

AFT. I taught in Spain for 18 years and was never asked once about Spanish culture. I get it evry time I have a new class here and to be honest it gets up my nose. Thai culture if adheared to is fine but the way it is used and turned on and off like a tap is a disgrace to Thai culture. I have been fortunate and been able to see a lot of this world and have respected culture in whatever country I have been in, but the more I hear about it here the more I hate it. So for me I love living here and repect the culture not the way it is thrown around by the people.

[Michaelphet]

Has anyone actually completed the Thai Custom and Culture course?   We were informed that five universities, all in Bangkok, were the only ones permitted to conduct the course, Rajapat (at 4,000 B), Rangsit, the International Schools assn at 15,000 B.   When we tried to enrol at Rajapat no one would answer the phone, we tried to send a fax and it would not go.   We emailed Rangsit and they answered that they had no course.   This is not for a work permit, but the new teachers licence, which, we are told, every farang must have for a work permit and visa next year.   As one who has married a Thai and looks to stay here this worries me (and a few others).   Any info would be appreciated

[bomha]

AFT. I taught in Spain for 18 years and was never asked once about Spanish culture. I get it evry time I have a new class here and to be honest it gets up my nose. Thai culture if adheared to is fine but the way it is used and turned on and off like a tap is a disgrace to Thai culture. I have been fortunate and been able to see a lot of this world and have respected culture in whatever country I have been in, but the more I hear about it here the more I hate it. So for me I love living here and repect the culture not the way it is thrown around by the people.

Much or most of Latin America is the same.  You expect to learn some things about the culture as you live there, but it's not shoved in your face as being such a superior culture that you must learn a history that is obviously one-sided.  I cannot imagine TEFL teachers in Mexico having to take such a test. 

Rumours, rumours.  Michaelphet proceeds on 'information' that only five unis in Bangers would teach this required course, and then ran into a deadend.  Are the folks in southern and eastern regions of this kite shaped country supposed to all get on the bus and go to Krunthep to fly their kites?

[Sadly-confused]

Just want to throw my own 50 cents worth into the melting pot. Should farang teachers be required to pass a culture exam to obtain a WP? Personally I see question as quite multi faceted, depending on what is being taught by the teacher:

•   Mainstream English; there is a requirement within the national curriculum that comparative cultural awareness be included within the teaching of English, being aware of your own culture is a given but surely those teachers who wish to teach mainstream, and by this I mean those farang who will be the only English teacher the students have (unlike say the 1 hour/week communications teacher) should be required to know sufficient Thai culture awareness to be able to show comparison.
•   Communicative English teaching; cannot really see much need here for a culture exam, unless the school require that cross culture comparisons be made.
•   EP/MEP non English subject teachers; here I think the idea of a culture exam is somewhat ludicrous.

Whilst I totally agree with Bomha that some Thais do indeed try to ram their culture down our collective throats, it is by no means all Thai who do this, Thais are indeed a very ethnocentric people, but a little knowledge of Thai history and possibly some anthropology does sadly throw light on the need for this ethnocentrism. It is not pretty but its here and now, we can either deal (ignore) with it or suffer it, its our choice.

Equally though it could be pointed out that many westerners are equally ethnocentric, as has been evidenced by a few former and recently present members of this forum and certainly by many members of another forum. Let him who is without sin, throw the first stone, but not if standing in a glasshouse.

… must learn a history that is obviously one-sided. 

Bomha, I doubt that any countries history when examined by someone from a different country, or for that matter an honest countryman of that country, could be judged as being anything if not obviously one-sided.

[fed_up]

… must learn a history that is obviously one-sided. 

Bomha, I doubt that any countries history when examined by someone from a different country, or for that matter an honest countryman of that country, could be judged as being anything if not obviously one-sided.

And your point is ... ?

[RobRoy]

Any farang who has been in Thailand six months knows about wats, wais, respecting The King, respect of elders and teachers, etc.  Thai food, Thai geography, and a few other things are not needed in order to teach English or physics.  It is absurd to require farang to take a test in Thai culture when the Thai teachers of English cannot pass a test in Western culture.

Not true...there's many people ignorant people here after several years...look at some of our posters.  One poster mentioned that seeing his boss disgusted him and then wondered why he got fired.  Get real.

Rumours, rumours.  Michaelphet proceeds on 'information' that only five unis in Bangers would teach this required course, and then ran into a deadend.  Are the folks in southern and eastern regions of this kite shaped country supposed to all get on the bus and go to Krunthep to fly their kites?

This kind of post really "inspires" or "motivates" other posters to share information.  I've heard from a good friend that he's taking the Thai culture course in a city outside of Bangers.  Why should I pass on info thats 99.9% true when all I'll do is get slammed?  After all, if your not a mod, you don't know shite from shinola.  Its just 'information' and therefore useless to any other poster.

sadly....nice explaination....one I'll pass on to other teachers should they ask.  Our EP teachers, I'm fairly certain, do comparative culture exercises.

And your point is ... ?

What's your point for asking....do you really require a more in depth explanation or should sadly use smaller words for you next time?

[Sadly-confused]

And your point is ... ?

Well dude, if you cannot work it out, then its pretty certain you would not understand anyway!

[bomha]

I did not mean to slam Michaelphet's post.  I was making the point that according to his source 'that five universities, all in Bangkok, were the only ones permitted to conduct the course.'  Maybe his source did not mean that, but it sounds that only five universities in all of kite-shaped Thailand offer this course, and then he researched it and came up with several dead ends.  Are teachers in Satun and Mae Sai supposed to get on the bus that brings them to Bangkok?  Rumours indeed, or so it might appear.  One province's solid fact is totally untrue in another province, sometimes.

Please let us know when you have an ironclad absolutely certain certainty that the folks in Ubon or Udon have to take the course, and where they attend, and, and, and...

[RobRoy]

Bomba.....

What is an ironclad certainty in Thailand? When it comes to paperwork, all we can help each other is with educated guesses.  Even the latest requirements are subject to change depending on cash flow, phase of the moon, sunspot activity, mood swings, etc.  Hell, I hope the uni I work at is one of the "blessed" five.  Might make the lessons a bit less boring as it will be easier to blow them off. 

I know of a guy in Korat that said his school was sending him to "cultural awareness training" for his TL.  Haven't emailed him in a couple of weeks so I'm not sure about the details, but will pass them on when I hear.  Not a rumor, it was a Sunday email and he was expressing his "excitement" about attending the course the next day.  Will get the details and pass them along.

[fed_up]

And your point is ... ?

Well dude, if you cannot work it out, then its pretty certain you would not understand anyway!

AND

And your point is ... ?

What's your point for asking....do you really require a more in depth explanation or should sadly use smaller words for you next time?

I'm really starting to doubt the collective IQ of you guys. My question was all about inquiring the necessity of explaining something that doesn't need explanation at all. Almost akin to pointing the pink elephant standing in the middle of the room. I guess this one went way above your heads, didn't it ?

[Thighlander]

Thai culture if adheared to is fine but the way it is used and turned on and off like a tap is a disgrace to Thai culture. I have been fortunate and been able to see a lot of this world and have respected culture in whatever country I have been in, but the more I hear about it here the more I hate it. So for me I love living here and repect the culture not the way it is thrown around by the people.

Great comment; I agree 100%.  Ironically, 90% of the time I heard about Thai Culture, it was while working in an EIP.  Most of the people that talk about it, are full of shit.  I rarely hear it in the business world.

[Sadly-confused]

I'm really starting to doubt the collective IQ of you guys. My question was all about inquiring the necessity of explaining something that doesn't need explanation at all. Almost akin to pointing the pink elephant standing in the middle of the room. I guess this one went way above your heads, didn't it ?

I can actually believe that you are in the habit of seeing pink elephants! What I have difficulty with is believing you explanation as tp the necessity of your original question, given above!

[RobRoy]

We've had posters explain both positive and negative reasons about a "culture awareness" course.  Thats cool....can our esteemed posters cite specific instances within a classroom or in their work environment that would show why a CW course is necessary or a joke.

Here's my two bits......
My first school was a quasi bilingual school. I had very little contact with Thai culture within the school, hence a good bit of ignorance on my part.  Later, I was employed at a government school. Needless to say, extremely different.  I was teaching the sterotypical lesson on family trees when I asked a students to fill in the basic family tree...So I asked "Well, whats your fathers name?"  I finally had to ask a Thai teacher what all the laughter was about.  My ignorance......perhaps a culture course might have helped.....

Explaining Christmas.  This is one I'm absolutely sick of.  Thais want to understand Christmas without any of the religious connotations...After doing it for four years I just avoid the questions.  Perhaps a course in farang culture is needed for the school staff.

Would like to hear more stories!

[ben]

I guess,

this is my opinion the thais like most people don't like being insulted and little things insult them especially when it comes to their heads and feet, now in that sense I guess we have to adapt to it as from the other point of view a thai can go into somebodies' fridge (friend) and take anything without the need to ask, that would p*ss of most westerners I guess so it is advisable as professionals to know this stuff but ...

on the other hand

where is the course we paid 500 baht for?

as you pointed out earlier.

then the other thing is the walking on egg shells around everybody, gets on my nerves somewhat as it's plain uncomfortable and detrimental to my work especially in a disorganised place, but they also expect us to know all this without explaining stuff then get annoyed and start throwing chairs at heads because we don't know it, lol, something missing in my mind, some train of thought or something.

anyway I can see its value and 500 isn't an awful lot of money but again where is it

ben

[ajarnnormal]

Well back to the point. I can tell you that I was not asked to pay anything but was told that I had to have this CL. i have done all the paperwork and told I have now got one but took NO test. Oh Fed up. It is unwise to start judging IQ's on this site from just reading a couple of paragraphs on a topic. Believe me I fell into that trap once and have been proved wrong and found the person or persons to be 100% kosher.

[retiredstillteaching]

The matter of the culture of a place is relevant and material.

The elites in control of Thailand prior to last Sept 19 were not only corrupt, but they were open advocates and apologists of corruption in Thai society, culture and civilization. Those elites were cynical as well. Further, they made the huge mistake of trying to redifine Thailand as a globalized corporation to be owned and operated by the Chinese-Thais themselves.

However, the post Sept 19 elites now in some measure of control of Thailand are the true believers, the Thais who like the semi-closed self-sufficiency enonomy, the Thai Trilogy of Monarchy, Buddhism and Nation, the Thais who are strongly ethnocentric.

Take your choice. 

[RobRoy]

RST,

What does your post have to do with a course in Thai culture or its revelance to teaching? 

AJ,

Did you get a little piece of paper you can mount on the wall?  I.E. some documentation that you've completed the course for your next job?

The reason why I ask is because the thought occurred to my pea sized brain is that this is something the school might refuse to give you the paperwork for (some schools try and hold the teacher's license, WP, etc) just to ruck with you.

[ajarnnormal]

Hi RobRoy. No nothing,they just told me that the application had gone in and that it had been accepted. I did not pay anything so I did not ask any questions.

[dwwin]

Just want to throw my own 50 cents worth into the melting pot. Should farang teachers be required to pass a culture exam to obtain a WP?

Culture, what culture?
Hey you farang Sadly, read the forum rules, will ya? 

As you seem to address foreign teachers in general here I must tell you the I strongly object to being called a guava (farang).

Seriously, there are enough words in the English and Thai language to describe a person from a foreign country in an appropriate way.

Maybe it's because that I'm an Irish/English blond (dumb but lucky) but at my school the kids are in for a stern warning  from the Thai teachers when they refer to any of us as a guava.

Before you jump at me about guava or not, I should tell you that I didn't fall off the plane just yesterday. I've been trying to abbluudysorbe the Thai ??culture?? for the last 20 years. Haven't found much. Some etiquette maybe but culture?

[Mods-Rockers]

As you seem to address foreign teachers in general here I must tell you the I strongly object to being called a guava (farang).

Oh dear! old bean! Pray let me know how we should refer to you in the future!
Ah! Maybe there is a clue here;

Maybe it's because that I'm an Irish/English blond (dumb but lucky) but at my school the kids are in for a stern warning 

Should we refer to you merely as a shovelless mick? Maybe a bogstomping half-breed? How about a scouser? Most of them are half Irish!

Before you jump at me about guava or not, I should tell you that I didn't fall off the plane just yesterday. I've been trying to abbluudysorbe the Thai ??culture?? for the last 20 years. Haven't found much. Some etiquette maybe but culture?

Then I actually feel quite sorry for you! You must have walked around for the last 20 years with your eyes shut and your brain in neutal!

[hero]

As you seem to address foreign teachers in general here I must tell you the I strongly object to being called a guava (farang)

Judging by this post perhaps there is a need for some teachers to take a Thai culture course before coming here

Actually the word 'farang' comes from the Thai word 'farangset' which means Frenchman.  Traditionally the majority of the white folks in Indochina were French, so we all got labeled that way I'm afraid.

The guava fruit has the same name 'farang' in Thai, the jury's out on this one but it could well have to do with the white flesh of the fruit leading to it being named after us white folks!

I've been trying to abbluudysorbe the Thai ??culture?? for the last 20 years.

Oops.  Don't worry nobody's calling you a guava mate - it's just a word that has a couple of different meanings!  I wonder if the folks from Sweden feel the same way when arriving in an English speaking country to find that we label them the same way as a dirty vegetable that's most fit for horse food.....

..... I'd guess they'd probably understand

[RobRoy]

I've got to admit I don't like my coworkers referring to me by some what could be considered a racial idiom.  But then again, if they were in America (I'm a Yank), what would the group of them be called at work?  Thats the way I look at it...

And if you can't absorb it after twenty years....damn dude, perhaps you need a change of environment.  If you're still upset about being called a farang, then perhaps some other adjectives would be more appropriate?

Lets see....Lord Farang?  Ajarn Scouser?  Or how about "Lazy Shiftless Bastard"? After all, thats what most Thai teachers think!

[bomha]

I have noticed that Yanks  do not like to be called "Seppo."  And Canadians  dinna like to be called Yanks.  Some Americans do not like being called Yankees!  I have never been called a guava, kiwi, nor grapefruit.

But I can live with being called "farang" or "falang" or "White boy."

[RobRoy]

bomha...
Canadians are called Canucks...

[Mods-Rockers]

scots dont like being called TV's due to the skirts they wear!

[airpuka]

i also heard somewhere that black people don't like being called niggers.

[Pavlovsdog]

Quite frankly, I'd rather be called a guava than a Frenchman! 

[retiredstillteaching]

Right On!