Topic: Is a degree from Mission College worth the paper it is printed on?

[certified]

Anyone from anywhere with a third grade education can "earn" a Masters degree in less than a year. What happened to the Graduate Record Examination, and a GPA above 3.0, and undergraduate transcripts from a recognized institution. And their teacher's certification is a bigger joke. No transcripts needed, no GPA of 3.0 or above is necessary, no references submitted, no FBI checks, no state examinations, and the list continues. In western countries you must be formally invited into the college of education after meeting certain high standards. After being admited you have 2 - 3 years of hard work in that college which finally culminates in a half year of supervised student teaching. Finally after completing the university's educational program, your paper work is sent to the state board of education. Once your qualifications are processed you are then given a letter of invitation  to try to pass the state examinations which last 2 days. If any of the tests and  sub tests ( about 35 - 40) fall below a 70% the aspiring teacher can not become licensed. The tests themselves include one day off your elective type college courses, chemistry, biology, calculus, history, English, earth sciences, etc., while the second day is 8 - 10 hours of tests within your discipline. The testing rooms are filled with hopeful to be educators who sometimes have flunked the examinations 2, 3, maybe 4 times. This doesn't sound like Mission College does it? Incidently, your classes at Mission College...are non-transferable.

[hero]

Link?

[Geekboy]

http://www.missioncollege.edu/

It's a 7th Day Adventist college so yes I do believe it is worth the paper it is printed on. When it comes to the nursing field in particular, there is nothing better than an Adventist University. I'm sure you've heard of Loma Linda University, right?

Mission College programs are also accredited internationally by the Adventist Accediting Association of Schools, Colleges and Universities based in Washington DC, USA and by the Commission of Education at the Southern Asia-Pacific Division of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists in the Philippines. The College is one of more than 90 universities and colleges in the international network of private Adventist colleges operated worldwide.

It has better accreditation than just about any Thai university.

Formal service agreements of academic cooperation between Mission College and American universities and colleges have been signed covering the areas of professor exchange and joint research programs, curriculum and course development, transfer credit arrangements and the benchmarking of academic standards.

 These agreements involve the following institutions:
    * La Sierra University, Riverside, San Bernadino, California, USA
    * Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, San Bernadino, California, USA

You can transfer your credits to a very major American university with ease, can you do that with any other Thai university?

[certified]

This "Mission College" was sold and bought in 1996. They are not part of a recognized educational system. Being a "Mission College" for the Seventh Day Adventists does not give it any further credibility. Last year I worked with 2 guys who got what they call a  teacher's certification from there, and one of the guys informed me his credits were non transferable to any college or university in Canada or America. The other guy got his certification diploma or whetever they choose to call it, and he had no undergraduate degree from anywhere. They never checked. He just filled out the admission forms and paid his money. This is just one step up from Khosan Road.

[Geekboy]

I'm not going to argue, all I know is that they say that they are accredited by the Thai government. They are and have been under the control of the Southeast Asia Union of SDA churches. Credits are transferable to accredited universities in the US and Australia. That's more than I can say for most degrees.

Is there a reason why you are attacking this university so much?

[snottgoblin]

Geekboy.

Whilst I am not disputing your comments could you confirm that the accepting colleges/unversities are within the state framework rather than a religious framework in the countries mentioned ?

Certainly the course is accredited by the Thai goverment which is not the most flattering accolade one could desire from a country that is indeed somewhat flexible in its approach to law and order and the prevention of corruption amonst other things.

A friend of mine recently returned to the U.K and presented the degree paper he had obtained from Mision College to the local authority he had applied to for a teaching position with some rather amazing results.

The laughter can still be heard .

Not disheartened he applied to a school linked to the S.D.A movement in the U.K. They were not impressed and explained that in essence the degree document would make a wonderfulk conversation piece if framed and hung up on the wall however as regarding its value one may be well advised to use it as up market wrapping paper or as material to light a fire.

Methinks an expensive time wasting exercise for a worthless degree document.

[certified]

    Bingo!
Another co-worker I know is from Texas U. He sat down with his admissions officer in Texas and they discussed Mission College. The officer told him that the credits and programs they offer are not part of the State, or Federal Education programs.

[Geekboy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loma_Linda_University

Loma Linda is one university that accepts it and LLU is accredited in the US. They are accredited by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges.

Again, I have no real knowledge of the school, but if I was confronted with a degree from the university, I'd accept it more than any other Thai university. Maybe that's the problem your friend is having...that the degree is from Thailand.

[Andy]

    Bingo!
Another co-worker I know is from Texas U. He sat down with his admissions officer in Texas and they discussed Mission College. The officer told him that the credits and programs they offer are not part of the State, or Federal Education programs.

First off, dudes, there ain't no Texas U. Secondly, why the hell would a foreign university be part of a state or federal education program? It ain't their ball game. If ya got a foreign degree and ya go to the states, you gotta apply to an specialized agency that evaluates foreign educational programs.

Which specialized agency are ya gonna use? It's up to  the university or government office in question to decide which evaluators they're gonna accept. So if podunk linda uni wants to accept podunk college degrees, then it's all cool.

I gotta ask the same q though. Why ya dudes ragging on this college? Certified, you're over on another thread ragging on Niva. That school sucks...and you don't like that it's 7th Day Adventist. Hey, that's cool. But now you are attacking another 7th Day Adventist institution and claimin' a lot of stuff. I'm just a casual observer, but it sure makes me think ya got an agenda.

[certified]

Let the buyer beware.

What kind of credible institution has no admission standards?
No graduate record examination?
No previous degrees or course work is checked?
Transcripts are not asked for?
The course work is questionable?
It's takes just a year or less, with any gpa average, to get their degree.

[los_teacher]

I'll give you several reasons why I am considering this school.

1) Credits are accepted by the Thai Ministry of Education.  Subject teachers at private Bilingual and English Programs in Thailand technically must have 15 education credits to teach any subject other than English.  This program provides 18 education credits, thus meeting the requirement.

2) It is wise to have all the i's dotted and t's crossed and be perfectly legal when working in a foreign country.  Existing rules can be enforced at any time at the whim of school or government officials.

3) With these credits teachers qualify for positions at top Thai schools in BKK - with starting salaries of 65-70k per month.  With 3-5k annual salary increases a person can make between 80-95k per month after only five years.  A person can have a very high quality of life in Thailand on this salary. 

4) Classes are Monday and Tuesday from 6-9 pm held locally in BKK.  Very convenient for working teachers. 

5) There is a supervised practicum component.  This is a very nice aspect of the program.

6)  The total cost is around $1200.  Compare this to the $12,000-20,000+ it would cost stateside or through distance learning.

7) Having spoken to two recent graduates I have been told that the curriculum is challenging and the knowledge they acquired useful and worthwhile.  Even if the credits don't transfer the knowledge will remain with you - it's called professional development.

If one is planning to remain long-term in Thailand and doesn't have the means to pay for an expensive US certification, or perhaps is in a situation where returning to the US isn't viable (supporting a family in Thailand for example) then this program is a nice alternative. 

Personally, I have no intention of returning to the USA.  I have a wife, and we are thinking about having at least one child.  I can't afford to have months where I am not working, nor can I afford to support two households.  I don't want to work illegally, even if it is an unenforced technicality.  I am now at the point in my teaching career where I feel that I could benefit from a sound grounding in pedagogical theory.  The cost of the program is more than reasonable.  I can accept that credits likely won't transfer anywhere in the west.  So what's the problem?   

[bawpenyang]

Mission College is about professional development. Teachers working here for the long haul would benefit by attending Mission College. However, the degree/certificate is worth nothing. There is no statue in Thai law that requires a teacher of English to have a degree. What we are talking about are the policies of the MOE.

[RobRoy]

los....good on you...anything you can do to better yourself is a good thing....I'm not a papered teacher either, but have attended many classes to help me improve my teaching techniques.  

Don't you just love it when some posters get "holier than thou".  Rather than try and help you better yourself or support your efforts, they remind you that your paperwork will never look as pretty as the paper they have.  So what!  At least you're improving and asking questions rather than bragging.  

Oh, and I would be willing to "CERTIFY" not to mention names that you probably have a nice life rather than being frustrated over the lack of pay some peoples paperwork and/or personality have warrented.

Just my guess...Good luck dude and let us know how the course goes
 

[certified]

Obviously someone is part of the family. 

[RobRoy]

You're right certified...I'm part of the family of teachers here wanting to help each other.  Thats what this forum is about.  The big question is...what family are you part of and if you're not wanting to help fellow teachers out, why are you here?

[certified]

Rob are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

[RobRoy]

Baptist actually, but if you donate to the 7th day dudes, then I'm 7th day.

[RobRoy]

In fact just bought a new computer so I could use some donations........

[los_teacher]

Thanks for the encouragement RobRoy.

A clarification.  It is my understanding that the required education credits only apply to 'subject teachers' meaning teachers of science and mathematics.  English and Social Studies teachers do not share this requirement.  I've been working in these types of programs for the last five years - always as a subject teacher.

It is obvious that Mission College can't provide the same quality in their teacher certification program as a school in the USA.  Nobody would make that claim - it would be ridiculous.  I don't think that's the point though.

Without going to the trouble of listing my various credentials and years of teaching experience both in and out of Thailand, I'll just state that I consider myself to be an experienced and competent educator.  I also believe that I can improve, and that Mission College can help. 

I'm at the top of my game right now.  Good position, good school, excellent pay.  I'm committed to my students, my school, and my career - and it's time for some professional development.  I'm also  starting a family here and require job security and economic stability.  It is clear that 18 credits in Education, recognized by the MoE of Thailand, can help me achieve these ends.

[certified]

It probably turns out many talented and gifted people who got a chance to be a teacher. And judging by some of the nut cases I've seen in America as teachers, it's not the system always, but the heart and the dedication of the teacher. I don't remember Buddha or Jesus having been students in a college to become teachers, and yet they have been our greatest examples as teachers. The title of teacher is the noblest one in the world, and if a child calls you their teacher, then you are a teacher.

[bomha]

Now we are back at school, and they let us check the internet for education related material. I showed this discussion to the Yank we call "good old girl.'  She's 50, and her son just finished his M.Ed. at a real university (Perdoo?).  Good old girl laughed and laughed.   She says that of course all the Adventist schools are all Adventist, and the Catholic schools all are members of the "Holy Order of our Mother of Education" professional group, etc.  In fact, she knows nothing about Loma Linda except that "Tricky Dicky" was born there, or went to a Quaker school there.  But she is not a nurse.

Then the Welshman saw that comment about 15 credit hours.  He said that is an old chestnut that has been roasted to death for years now, and nobody knows what it is.  However, with all due professional respect, we agree that you should get all the education you can get.  If you plan to be have your corpse burned in LOS, get your education in Thailand.  If you can only do it two nights a week in Bangkok, from a school that accepts anybody, that is better than setting at the pub, pissed for seven nights a week. 

[certified]

  Amen Brother, I'm beginning to see the light.

[airpuka]

well ramkhamhaeng has a nice international Med program and since its one of thailands oldest state schools it should be acceptable in the US ( i would think) but if you want big money teaching in thailand you got to get certified back home so you can teach in the international schools, but i would look at the other universities in thailand before you commit to this one, all ive heard is bad things about the 7th day church they seem kind of like christian Extremeists.

[certified]

       (all ive heard is bad things about the 7th day church they seem kind of like christian Extremeists.)

If any one of American city's, or for that matter any city in the Phillipines, were to be educationally  flooded with christian extremists popping out of a diploma mill every nine months, there would be a congressional hearing.

Bangkok is where the SDA condition and program their "family". They also intend to integrate their "family" into the school system at the expense of non SDAs.

You have to look at the much larger picture here, and have some working insights into their real intentions.

Every person I know that has been subjected to this "family", and the way they perceive and treat outsiders, wonders how any real christian could behave that way.

The "family" follows a medium named Ellen White who lived in the 1800s. Her believers have taken White's sayings, and have cleaned them up and  fused them into the Bible to create their own religious book.

The Thais are not aware of either SDA plans for Thailand, or the real nature and inner beliefs of this "family".

By the way, mass integration into Thailand's school system is an open goal they talk about at all levels here.

[Mods-Rockers]

Every person I know that has been subjected to this "family", and the way they perceive and treat outsiders, wonders how any real christian could behave that way.

The "family" follows a medium named Ellen White who lived in the 1800s. Her believers have taken White's sayings, and have cleaned them up and  fused them into the Bible to create their own religious book.

The Thais are not aware of either SDA plans for Thailand, or the real nature and inner beliefs of this "family".

By the way, mass integration into Thailand's school system is an open goal they talk about at all levels here.

It\s it just me, or is this thread rapidly moving away from the advantages/disadvantages of the mission collage course and spiraling downwards into what appears to be conspiracy theory realms highly reminiscent of Mr K’s Zionist BS on another forum.

Certified, on two different threads you have been ragging the 7th and on another you decided that the use of religion by a manager were grounds for damming the school. What exactly is your agenda? What exactly is the religion you follow? Just to clarify things you understand.

[certified]

  hahaha nice try. Check out the web on SDA's. I was careful not to use the word CULT.
I was there when these topics were discussed by the SDA directors from America. Any serious student of higher education should understand the background of the institution they are being educated at. Obviously, you react negatively to the poster for personall reasons.
This is not a conspiracy theory by any means. You need to go into the belly of the beast to understand it's true nature. And if you are there already, good luck finding your way out.
 

Peace

[certified]

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=sda+cult&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Here are some web pages with their own perspectives on the SDAs. This is why people should ask this question, Is the degree worth the paper it's written on.

[Mods-Rockers]

hahaha nice try. Check out the web on SDA's. I was careful not to use the word CULT.

And if you now go back and check my post I also did not mention ‘cult’ indeed the first person to bring that term into this discussion is your good self; and the you provide the following link;

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=sda+cult&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Here are some web pages with their own perspectives on the SDAs. This is why people should ask this question, Is the degree worth the paper it's written on.

which if you indeed follow it leads to a results page where the word cult is written no less than 26 times! It should however be noted from the URL that the search criteria were SDA  and CULT, these words would have been put into yahoo’s search engine by the person generating the search, yourself perchance? Obviously not as you state quite categorically above that you did not bring the word CULT into the discussion. Hardly I think!!!!!!

I was there when these topics were discussed by the SDA directors from America. Any serious student of higher education should understand the background of the institution they are being educated at. Obviously, you react negatively to the poster for personall reasons.

Were you now? And why was that? I ask myself! Maybe because of some hidden agenda! I note that when asked in my previous post what agenda you were following and indeed what religion you profess to follow you omitted to answer, deciding instead to go off on your abortive attempt at denial of trying to bring cult conspiracy into a thread that was originally about the educational advantages or disadvantages of following a course of study offered by a collage that follows a religion that you, oh so fcuking obviously hold a great hatred for!

This is not a conspiracy theory by any means. You need to go into the belly of the beast to understand it's true nature. And if you are there already, good luck finding your way out.
 

Peace

THIS IS NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY, ITS ALL TRUE! THE ‘FAMILY’ IS OUT TO GET YOU! That’s if Mr K’s Zionists don’t get you or the family first!

[Mods-Rockers]

Certified
If indeed you have a burr up your ass about the SDA, then you have a burr up your ass! I realize that it must itch tremendously and be a constant irritation! However this is not a thread about the rights and wrongs of a religion, it’s about the pros and cons of a course of study that is being offered! If your burr worries you then there are many forums on the web which deal exclusively with that burr! Please feel free to take yourself to one of these forums where you can get up on your soapbox and preach to those who may have an interest in listening to you!

That will then leave this thread to those who are interested in way of furthering their education in whatever ways are possible in this country to get on with their own discussion on that matter without having some religious fanatic pontificating in the background!

Thank you in advance for you consideration and respect for the wishes of those people!
 

[Andy]

Certified, like yo, I grew up SDA so a lot of your BS is just that, BS. I ain't a freakin SDA because, like dude, it just ain't me. I don't like your comments, but I ain't gonna be the one to mod you cuz that's a conflict of interest in my book. Anyone reading this thread ain't gonna believe that Niva is bad either. You're destroyin' your case for Niva to enter the Hall of Shame. You need to lay off the words dude.

Most of what you are saying about SDA's is pure BS, it makes me wonder if what you're sayin' about Niva is pure BS? Is it, man? Can ya put my mind at ease, dude?

 

[certified]

A school's background is also important in determining the value of the school.
By all means a prospective student needs to know how far his education will take him, and for what reasons. If there are biases that the institution suffers from, right or wrong, they should be informed of any potential problems that could occur for them in the future, as a result of these biases. If you are selecting Mission College because of it's history and mission,then you already are aware of what your situation is. If you're selecting it because  the cost is good, the work load is light, and the time it takes is minimal, then the strength of this degree may not extend beyond the borders of Thailand.
 
In short,each school will carry it's own type of prestige for it's own reasons. When you apply for a job, you will represent the educational institution you come from. If the school carries religious affiliations that are considered unusual, you will need to know about this deficit.

[certified]

Sorry Andy

[samvimes]

well, it's probably better than a "degree" from APEC "University" 

[Mods-Rockers]

A school's background is also important in determining the value of the school.

a true statement in some ways, but lets state a scenario here! For possibly similar reasons to you disliking SDA’s I have a particular dislike of Mormons (actually only a few select mormons but that’s by the by) Mormons don’t have a great rep in some parts of the world even to this day! Does that mean that graduate from Brigham Young Uni are not up to par? I doubt it! The school has a fairly good academic record!

By all means a prospective student needs to know how far his education will take him, and for what reasons.

Again very true! But lets face it a piece of paper from all but a few Thai unis is hardly something to write home about but would be fully acceptable within Thailand

If there are biases that the institution suffers from, right or wrong, they should be informed of any potential problems that could occur for them in the future, as a result of these biases.

What biases? If you mean that some people have a major down on SDA’s and that if teachers were to gain some paper from an SDA mission school then certain certified people would not employ them because of the religious connotation, then yes, prospective students should be aware that there are indeed bigots in this world!

If you are selecting Mission College because of it's history and mission,then you already are aware of what your situation is.

And are in all likelihood a practicing SDA!

If you're selecting it because  the cost is good, the work load is light, and the time it takes is minimal, then the strength of this degree may not extend beyond the borders of Thailand.

those people on this thread who have expressed interest in the mission school course have stated that their interests are as a result of their weish to remain in Thailand, so surely a moot point!

In short,each school will carry it's own type of prestige for it's own reasons. When you apply for a job, you will represent the educational institution you come from. If the school carries religious affiliations that are considered unusual, you will need to know about this deficit.

In short, all prospective course candidates should be aware that they will not be employed by certified, not because of academic reasons but simply because he has a burr up his ass about the ‘FAMILY’