These Forums are not in heavy use anymore, I suggest you say up for an account on the main page, Freelance TEFL. It's a social networking TEFL site where you can make your own groups and have your own little place on the TEFL web.

Poll

How useful are TEFL courses?

Very Useful
5 (33.3%)
Somewhat Useful
5 (33.3%)
Maybe useful for some
3 (20%)
Not at all useful
2 (13.3%)
Not sure
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: How useful are TEFL Courses?  (Read 4425 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Uncle Che

  • Guest
How useful are TEFL Courses?
« on: February 27, 2006, 10:42:44 am »
Just how useful are TEFL courses? Is it possible to train yourself? Would new teacher be better off trying to buy a few teaching books and training themselves or are TEFL courses worth the money?

Please no posting about specific course providers on this thread!

Offline Rick_BKK

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 28
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2006, 02:32:57 pm »
In general I think TEFL/TESOL courses with observed teaching practice are invaluable for a new teacher. New teachers need to get in a classroom and get their feet wet so to speak, and then be given feedback and advice on how to improve. However, I am not sure of the value of courses without teaching practice for new teachers.

Mods-Rockers

  • Guest
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2006, 05:58:04 pm »
How long is a piece of string? This is one of those questions really. If you use as a baseline that most of teh available courses are designed for teaching adults or young adults and the vast majority of jobs on offer are for teaching kids, then the courses do have a major element missing. I taught for 18 months before i did any tefl trainging some at a matayom school some at a ragnarok oops sorry Rajabhat. My next position was teaching EP through a company thats mentioned on a couple of threads here, they insisted on a TEFL and went so far as to reccomend a particular course to do. It was an online course with no observed teaching, was it worth doing? quite frankly no, the whole thing was designed using the MOE's "no fail" policy. Many if not all of my 1st year Rajabhat student could have passed the course with little trouble. Right now I am in my second year of my MA ed (linguistics) where the first year was TESOL based, did I learn anything there, yes buckets full, but applicable to teaching in Thailand, well not really in a direct way, there was a lot that could be fudged and applied here but it would need a lot of prep to get it to work.

Can a newbie learn on the coalface, if he is lucky and gets a good coalface then yes he can, doing a TEFL course will help if its a good un, Does the teacher need a degree to teach english? from teh perspective that the govt is pushing more and more towards that aim then yes, but a degree does not make a teacher just as a tefl course does not make a teacher. Some have what it takes, some dont (I like to think I have it but I leave it to my students to decide) But the is Thailand, if you are warm, white and sober at least 50% of teh time you can get a job teaching somewhere!

Offline MrQ

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2006, 07:35:08 am »
I am going to live in BKK next month to study on a CELTA. Hopefully it will help  my spelling and grammar but also teach me some new tecnhiques.

Ultimately I want to head off the the big money countries rather than staying here in THailand and making a pittance.

Offline hero

  • Holier than thou...
  • Global Moderator
  • TEFLWatcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 632
  • Karma: +16/-5
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2006, 11:22:26 am »
I thought when I signed up for my TEFL course here in Thaialnd that the main reason for doing it was the piece of paper at the end of it.  I wrongly believed that I would find it difficult to get work without the TEFL certificate.

It's ironic that I have never actually provided any employer with my TEFL certificate, nobody has ever asked to see it!

Lucky for me then that I found my TEFL course to be one of the most useful things I have ever done.  It wasn't perfect - nothing could have prepared me for my first day out teaching M5 in a government boys school - but I learnt so many simple techniques that are the difference between enjoying the job and hating it.

I know teachers who haven't ever done TEFL courses, I have worked with them in the past and seen them struggling in classes of silent students trying to follow the textbook as though that's what teaching English is about!  From the TEFL course I learnt that the textbook is only one of many tools that we take into the classroom - for this itself it was worth the money.  I make all my classes fun for me - doesn't always work for the students, but hey ho ;D

Another factor for me was confidence.  As a complete career change, while I knew I could do the job, I had no idea if I would be any good at it.  After learning what was involved, and then being observed and observing others I felt I had a great start and had the confidence to get in there and do it with kids or adults, beginner to advanced.

I have a friend in the UK with no teaching experience who is considering coming here to teach and he asked if he'd get a job.  I said "Of course", everyone gets a job :D  I strongly advised him to a TEFL course of some description though to help get the most out of the job, forget just doing it for the cash or to fund an existence in Thailand - if you're gonna do a job every day then you want to be able to do it properly, it's no fun otherwise!

Offline kenkannif

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +4/-1
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 11:40:48 am »
I am going to live in BKK next month to study on a CELTA. Hopefully it will help? my spelling and grammar but also teach me some new tecnhiques.

Ultimately I want to head off the the big money countries rather than staying here in THailand and making a pittance.

Mate they don't teach grammar/spelling you're expected to know it going in.

Offline MrQ

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2006, 12:19:49 pm »
So what the fudge is the point in the course then

4 weeks of lesson plannings and playing games

Dammit I should have save all that wedge and bought myself a new bike and a fake certificate.

Offline kenkannif

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +4/-1
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2006, 11:00:44 am »
I think they look more at the theory etc. of teaching (academic side).

Don't think they do that many games either as it's geared towards adults.

I did check with Unners and he said no grammar was taught on his???

Have a good time though mate and pop over if you're in the area!


Offline MrQ

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2006, 05:40:53 pm »
nope they are teaching me grammar

It's still not helping me much though

Offline kenkannif

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +4/-1
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2006, 09:28:11 am »
LoL, have a good time mate and remember a dangling participle is not a medical condition and a dipthong is not what Germans go swimming in ;)


Offline Notanewbie

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2006, 01:20:54 pm »
From my viewpoint, on balance, TEFL courses are useful but there are a number of drawbacks to the courses as well. I have never personally done any of the courses (But did do a one weeker at AUA before starting my first teaching job) and rarely teach English these days, so I am more or less an "objective" observer" and have no interest in defending my own decision to take a course or not to. One of the problems in these courses are inherent in all short training programs which can be seen in business, the military, and just about all types of occupations, short courses focus on practices instead of the principles behind the practices. This sometimes results in individuals using the practices in the wrong times in respond to the wrong situations. Because they lack the theoretical underpinnings, they may not understand the contextual aspects of what makes the practices work. Another problem is these courses have a tendency to instill a "there is only one way to teach" mentality. This is especially problematic with head teachers and the like, who may believe the way they were taught in their CELTA or other courses in the "right way" and any teacher doing something different is "wrong." I am not even close to an expert, but I am familiar enough with research done on education and epistemology to realize there is no clear agreement in academia about the "best" way to teach or learn.  The CELTA (or others) way may be an effective way to teach English, but no one should think it is the best or the only way to teach. So I think the attitude of the student makes a world of difference. If a student expects to pick up a few tricks of the trade, get a chance to do a bit of practice teaching, and gain a foundation to continue to learn on, the course will do some good. On the other hand, if the student expects to become an expert teacher who now knows how to teach and believes all people without the CELTA or similar course shouldn't be allowed to clean toilets in a school, it will do more harm than good.

Then there is the economics of these courses. The CELTA at ECC runs $1,400, and with lost wages for the month, one can expect to forgo 80,000 to 90, 000 Baht. How long will it take to pay off the course? If one is just doing a one year teaching lark before beginning one's real life, will the cert give you an extra 7 to 8 thousand extra baht a month to pay for it? If one plans on making English teaching a "career" than obviously one needs one of the certificates, but it seems like a lot of money to pay to get "qualified" for a very low paying job.

Finally, we must give a lot of credit to the TEFL training industry in selling the notion that a four week cert is needed to teach English. When I first came to Thailand around 8 years ago, the TEFL training industry was just in its infancy. The vast majority of teachers had no training at all and only a very few people made a living from providing TEFL training in the country. Today, many (Majority?) of ESL teachers have some form of cert, and a number of people have created a whole new industry and are making their living from TEFL training. There are no four week courses for teaching economics, physics, math, natural sciences, biology, political science, Japanese, Latin, ancient Greek, European history, or the hundreds and hundreds of other subjects taught around the world every day to billions of people, why only English? Actually, the selling of the TEFL training industry might make a good research topic for an academic marketing paper. Also the emotions these courses provoke in there defenders and detractors is puzzling. 

Offline mlomker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2006, 03:45:25 am »
Finally, we must give a lot of credit to the TEFL training industry in selling the notion that a four week cert is needed to teach English.

Many 'English' teachers do not have bachelors degrees in English, much less education.  I do know college instructors in the US that got started with just a masters degree in their subject areas, but many TEFLers are teaching kids.  Here in the US you don't get anywhere near a child without a year or so of education courses...licensure is rather involved and the PGCE in Britain is similar.

The TEFL programs are intended to provide someone without an English or education degree with 'a clue'.  If you have a relevant degree then you have my blessing to make up a certificate on a photo copier.  It'd be silly to make a licensed teacher take a TEFL course.

I'm personally thinking about going to SIT or a local college that allows you to apply your TEFL toward a masters degree.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 03:50:48 am by mlomker »

Offline SusanRichardson

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
The value of "TEFL" Certificates
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2006, 11:11:56 am »
I had inquired where the other ongoing discussion was and did not recieve an answer.

Therefore, I'll be mean and start a new discussion with the hopes of not being labled so many odd names including "Troll".

In Thailand, the "TEFL" certificates carry no weight unless you don't have a formal education. In the instance of no education, some Thai schools think the certificate is some sort of diploma from a real school. I've read numerous times that Japan, Korea, and China don't even consider said certificates when making decisions. I have no personal experience with those countries.

NOTICE and consider the following good advice:

Anytime an outfit advertises in a false and misleading way, don't trust them! Combine that with the deception of advertisments in the "Help Wanted" section of newspapers when in fact selling a product you should be able to reach your own conclusions.

The various TEFL certificates and courses sold over the internet or around Thailand may help people at the end of the day, but survival as a teacher in THAILAND comes down to discipline in the classroom, motivation in the classroom, and acceptance of Thai culture and discrimination.

I hope this discussion is not deleted. Please refer me to the ongoing one and I will gladly read it and move this over.

Thanks and cheers. Susan
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 11:44:53 am by SusanRichardson »

Mods-Rockers

  • Guest
Re: The value of "TEFL" Certificates
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2006, 11:48:54 am »
Did you not do this topic to death over on the other forum, and you made just as little sense over there as well.

Offline SusanRichardson

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The value of "TEFL" Certificates
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2006, 12:03:40 pm »
Did you not do this topic to death over on the other forum, and you made just as little sense over there as well.

Hi. What do you think of companies/outfits etc. which advertise in the help wanted section of newspapers wanting instead to sell something to the perhaps desparate or unemployed and/or unknowing? Good business people or used car salesmen? Cheers. Susan

Mods-Rockers

  • Guest
Re: The value of "TEFL" Certificates
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2006, 01:50:44 pm »
but what relevance does this have to the teaching community?

Offline SusanRichardson

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The value of "TEFL" Certificates
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2006, 06:03:27 pm »
The question:
Hi. What do you think of companies/outfits etc. which advertise in the help wanted section of newspapers wanting instead to sell something to the perhaps desparate or unemployed and/or unknowing? Good business people or used car salesmen? Cheers. Susan

The answer????????????????????????????????????????????????
but what relevance does this have to the teaching community?

The relevance to the teaching community is easily figured out. You are "buying" something which you don't need to buy, which is being sold to you in a child like manner such as used car people or real estate people try on. TEFL "Watch" would imply just that! The teaching community, prospects especially, need to know that it is a matter of what you can put up with in the culture combined with your ability to communicate a lesson which the students can grasp and leave your class with an increased ability in the future. It is not as easy as buying a certificate.


Quote
I hope this discussion is not deleted. Please refer me to the ongoing one and I will gladly read it and move this over.


 Susan
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 06:06:00 pm by SusanRichardson »

Mods-Rockers

  • Guest
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2006, 08:09:14 pm »
Susan is the above a cheap attempt at getting around the dont knock TEFL course providers rule?

Offline SusanRichardson

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2006, 08:26:02 am »
Susan is the above a cheap attempt at getting around the dont knock TEFL course providers rule?

I thought that "rule" applied to individual providers, not the broad spectrum of same. Please clarify. As you are well aware, there are many advertisers on the other site, an ever growing industry?

Just as a side joke, it was reported to me that in Pattaya of all places, there are signs all over town stating that a "work permit, Visa, and job" are guaranteed if you take their course...sad day in Thailand and even sadder for those uninformed how they are being worked.

cheers and again, I don't want to break the rules...if any comments on the legitimaticy of the courses is not allowed so be it. Susan

Offline MrQ

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2006, 05:53:52 pm »
Hello there Susan.

Good to see that you have come over here for reasoned debates.

What is your relationship with TEFL? What are your experiences? DO you have a formal teaching qualification?

Offline Harry

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 31
  • Karma: +2/-1
  • Don't blame it on the otter!
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2006, 04:00:21 pm »
I am going to live in BKK next month to study on a CELTA. Hopefully it will help  my spelling and grammar but also teach me some new tecnhiques. Ultimately I want to head off the the big money countries rather than staying here in THailand and making a pittance.
Why bother to do a CELTA in the cesspool that is BKK, especially since your stated objective is to head off to one of those big money countries? Why not do the course in your native country instead, I reckon that a European or American CELTA would be more widely respected than a Thai one.

This is a cesspool for the uneducated...   ;D

Offline SusanRichardson

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2006, 03:35:23 pm »
Hello there Susan.

Good to see that you have come over here for reasoned debates.

What is your relationship with TEFL? What are your experiences? DO you have a formal teaching qualification?

Hello, sorry for the late reply.
I have not "relationship" with TEFL, I'm an independent woman, something which scares many a man with nothing on his mind but breeding. My experiences prove that Bruce is correct, most teachers are too smart to pay him money therefore are "cheap" and "sex tourist". Yes, I have a TEFL certificate and a college degree. Are those "formal" teaching qualifications or were you refering to a B.A. in Education with a Masters in TESOL?

cheers mate, good luck in the game tomorrow. You are French I assume? Susan

Offline Harry

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 31
  • Karma: +2/-1
  • Don't blame it on the otter!
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2006, 06:25:03 pm »
I have not "relationship" with TEFL, I'm an independent woman, something which scares many a man with nothing on his mind but breeding.

Sue, may I call you Sue? Hell you don't scare me, in fact an independent educated woman is something of a rarity in this country. *assumes Sue is a farang gal* We should seriously consider meeting up for drinks, at the Brit. club perhaps? I promise I won't mention the topic of breeding once.  :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2006, 06:30:01 pm by Harry »

Offline Speaksoftly

  • Global Moderator
  • TEFLWatcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 56
  • Karma: +5/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2006, 10:11:30 pm »
It's almost as thrilling as a Punch and Judy show.

Offline SusanRichardson

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2006, 11:20:27 am »

Sue, may I call you Sue? Hell you don't scare me, in fact an independent educated woman is something of a rarity in this country. *assumes Sue is a farang gal* We should seriously consider meeting up for drinks, at the Brit. club perhaps? I promise I won't mention the topic of breeding once.  :)

The names SUSAN, not Sue, not Darling, not Honey, Not Suize, SUSAN okay?

What is the "Brit Club"? If it's full of drunken British males no thanks. If it's full of guys who like to brawl in the bathrooms with paper towel dispensers, no thanks. On the other hand, if it is near Sukhumvit Soi 11 fine and dandy mate. I'll be in Gullivers for the World Cup tonight but other than that, no plans. Cheers and gday. Susan

Offline Harry

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 31
  • Karma: +2/-1
  • Don't blame it on the otter!
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2006, 04:18:48 pm »
^ It's quite obvious from your post that you're a geezer, possibly with a gender issue.  :) Indeed, the Brit. club isn't a bawdy dive for sex-pats as you can see for yourself http://www.britishclubbangkok.org/

Gillivers eh! How shall I recognise you? Will you be wearing evening dress?

Offline itsturninugly

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2006, 05:43:52 pm »
Thanks for the info....this is of course directed at those who chose to stay on topic and at least reference TEFL type things.

In my opinion, a TEFL course, or other such type course, would indeed be helpful to a person wanting to teach English.

How useful are TEFL courses?

A) They help you in the actual teaching of classes in some kind of way.

B) The course, if completed successfully, will provide you with a piece of paper you can say you have to qualify for a job.

C) They are a source of income for those who are involved in such courses and provide money back into the Thai economy.

D) They, in one way or another, help to regulate the inept damaging individuals who would otherwise come by the planeload to Thailand for other purposes than just.

BTW....why is it that whenever "Susan" comes to post something, others are allowed to menace her. I saw nothing off topic with her post, which is not what I can say for the others. I feel at times like the watch is allowing someone's personal issues onto the forum. Come on!

Mods..Rockers....to answer your initial question: (half its length times two) :)

Offline SusanRichardson

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2006, 07:29:34 am »

C) They are a source of income for those who are involved in such courses and provide money back into the Thai economy.

Not so sure about this opinion. The courses generally are run by farangs with the usual disclaimer "Thai owned". We have all recently read how this may some day come back to haunt the land buyers as well as "business" operators. Most of us actually living here figure the money is spent by foreigners on luxury items, not pumped back into the local economy.

Quote
D) They, in one way or another, help to regulate the inept damaging individuals who would otherwise come by the planeload to Thailand for other purposes than just.

How so mate? Since the certificate is not required to teach and the attempts by the various outfits to approach the M.o.E. were rebuffed and laughed at, why would/should we assume any regulation? I'll add the big question, since there is no standard applied to the certificate one is as good as the other in the Thai mindset, one hour course and certificate, 60hours via email or home study, or the once ballyhooed 120hour figure, combine that with the FACT that no verification is done, how would said courses deter a person with bad intent?

Quote
BTW....why is it that whenever "Susan" comes to post something, others are allowed to menace her. I saw nothing off topic with her post, which is not what I can say for the others. I feel at times like the watch is allowing someone's personal issues onto the forum. Come on!

Boys will be boys mate. Some can only think with the little head when they see a womans name...sad. cheers. Susan
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 07:33:33 am by SusanRichardson »

Mods-Rockers

  • Guest
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2006, 07:49:12 am »
I'll add the big question, since there is no standard applied to the certificate one is as good as the other in the Thai mindset, one hour course and certificate, 60hours via email or home study, or the once ballyhooed 120hour figure, combine that with the FACT that no verification is done, how would said courses deter a person with bad intent?

Its not often I agree with you Susan, but on this I do. Until there is an industry standard applied to this type of course, that is externally audited, there can be no trust relationship built up with regards to the cert.
But the problem as I see it is that the vested interests of the cert providers and indeed the schools that employ holders of these certs will prevail. Imagine for one moment what would happen if the MOE were to suddenly demand and enforce a minimal certification for all foreign teachers of a verifiable internationally recognized TESOL cert of some kind, suddenly IMHO around half the teachers in Thailand would be ineligible to work, competition for teachers (sellers market) would increase and wages would have to follow, an interesting almost utopian dream I would say.

Offline Dumbo

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2006, 08:30:19 am »
I agree, it doesn't matter the TEFL certificate you have, Thai schools don't care. Wanna start your own tefl course if you want to, make up some certificates and lo and behold you are certified to teach.

Modrockers, what you are talking about could only happen when the Thai government actually starts enforcing the law, and they don't need new laws. Imagine what would happen if tomorrow the MOE in conjunction with the Labour Ministry descended upon every school in Thailand and demanded to see documentation on every teacher in Thailand, proof of degree, proper work permit, proper visa, etc? And thene actually fined the individuals AND schools? Overnight, a lot of teachers, including professional ones, would be out and the wages would rise. Or would they? I personally think the TEFL industry is built on a house of cards in Thailand. Does little Somchai in Isaan really need to learn English?

Is the TEFL inudstry in Thailand, just a fad? 6 years ago, teaching positions were limited to a few high schools, language institutes, universities, and corporate work. What about now? EP programs and farang face in the school programs account for a vast majority of the teaching positions in Thailand, a market that was very small 5 or 6 years ago. Here's a hint: enrollment figures in lesser EP programs are stagnant or beginning to fall, the better programs are seeing a drop in applicants.

In the last few years, the supply of teachers in Thailand have increased but not as fast as the demand for teachers. Give it two years and it will be a school's market.


Offline SusanRichardson

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2006, 08:33:28 am »

Its not often I agree with you Susan, but on this I do.

Without examples, a red herring. What exactly is it you have not agreed with?

Quote
Until there is an industry standard applied to this type of course, that is externally audited, there can be no trust relationship built up with regards to the cert.

Thank you for using the word "industry" vs educational accreditdation(sp?). It is an industry. A sales business. Enough said. Our minds are more alike than you care to admit.
 
Quote
suddenly IMHO around half the teachers in Thailand would be ineligible to work,


Half? I doubt it is that high. I doubt half have "certificates". perhaps we should do a poll? Naw, this bunch doesn't like polls. Suffice to say, at THREE schools(government with approved programs) I know first hand about, ZERO had any certificate at #1(4 total), at #2 one out of five had a certificatate from a commercial outfit well known, and at #3 one out of seven has a certificate and she is a non-native speaker of English.

Total Teachers I actually knew: 4 + 5 + 7 = 16

Number with Certificate                             2
from advertisers

(not counting my own as the school printed it out)

cheers. Susan


Offline SusanRichardson

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2006, 08:40:48 am »
Here's a hint: enrollment figures in lesser EP programs are stagnant or beginning to fall, the better programs are seeing a drop in applicants..

I think that the result of more and more problems with the foreign teachers. Late, absent, sloppy, leaving without proper notice, too many non-native speakers getting positions..it catches up and parents decide to just stick with the regular programs.(and save the money)

Susan

Offline samvimes

  • Global Moderator
  • TEFLWatcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 131
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2006, 10:38:38 pm »
I think the real problem is that "better" programs are not very good. This is mostly due to the fact that the administration is normally not very good.

Lots of Thai school can't differentiate between what makes a good teacher and and what doesn't; they don't pay enough to attract quality people either. 50,000 per month is not a good salary for a career teacher and couple that with the lack of resources and support teachers get is it any wonder that parent expectations are not being met? If they want high standards they have to get their act together and treat their staff better and pay them more.

On an aside, there are more and more Thai parents who have been educated in the west and know what they want their kids to get and are more likely to complain when their kids don't get what they think they are paying for.

Offline Johnny Rotten

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2006, 03:29:16 pm »
Hello there Susan.

Good to see that you have come over here for reasoned debates.

What is your relationship with TEFL? What are your experiences? DO you have a formal teaching qualification?

Hello, sorry for the late reply.
I have not "relationship" with TEFL, I'm an independent woman, something which scares many a man with nothing on his mind but breeding. My experiences prove that Bruce is correct, most teachers are too smart to pay him money therefore are "cheap" and "sex tourist". Yes, I have a TEFL certificate and a college degree. Are those "formal" teaching qualifications or were you refering to a B.A. in Education with a Masters in TESOL?

cheers mate, good luck in the game tomorrow. You are French I assume? Susan



Susan ja. I've followed you since you started posting on ajarn - those horrible pigs who used to shout at you.... I wanted to kill them. You sound so strong and... well dominant. Just playing those sounds through my thoughts - Su San - makes my attention prick up. Play with me my tirak, I'll let you hurt me. PM for my number.


Offline Smeg

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: +2/-4
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2007, 10:30:24 pm »
Just remember to get value for money. Some of the TEFL courses in Thailand are charging too as much if not more than courses run in the UK.

Now, how an independant 4 week course run in, for example, Ban Phe, Thailand, can justify charging more than a CELTA course run in London is anyone's guess. Costs of nearly all types are less than half in Thailand, and prices should reflect that.

Offline bomha

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
  • Karma: +11/-2
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2007, 12:13:41 am »
Smeg, I do not think so.  Here is the fruit of my quick online research

CELTA, LONDON, INT'L HOUSE: 1,175 POUNDS
CELTA, LONDON, SAXON COURT: 950 POUNDS
CELTA, LONDON, OXFORD HOUSE: 800 POUNDS

CELTA, THAILAND, INT'L HOUSE: 770 POUNDS
SEE (not CELTA), Chiang Mai: 445 pounds

Not to mention, the difference in the cost of living during thouse four weeks. :axechase: {2<g>

Offline Smeg

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: +2/-4
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2007, 12:20:18 am »
You don't think what? I didn't mention the CELTA in Thailand. But as you do, it is available for 745 pounds in Earls Court, London. That is cheaper than your Thailand CELTA price.

http://www.cactustefl.com/tefl/course.php?course_id=1542
The Cambridge CELTA

This is the course on offer in Earls Court and it is the Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults.


Please choose your preferred start date
4 weeks course starting 05/03/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 02/04/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 30/04/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 29/05/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 04/06/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 02/07/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 30/07/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 28/08/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 24/09/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 22/10/2007 for £745.00 
4 weeks course starting 19/11/2007 for £745.00 

And are you saying that if the cost of living during the 4 weeks is less in Thailand, then that makes charging the same amount (actually, 5 pounds more for a CELTA) for the course in Thailand OK?!?!? With much lower operating costs, it is disgusting.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2007, 01:14:39 am by Smeg »

Offline Happy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2007, 09:46:55 am »
Smeg.  I think some thing is missing in all of this, Ok its cheaper to live in Thailand, than to live in the Uk.
But many come here to do the TEFL + earn a living from schools that tefl place them in.
So you also need to take into consideration the very big gap in salaies between here UK I think you may find a rough figure of 40% more expensive in thailand. 
I think then you will come up a figure that makes working & paying for your TEFL in Thailand is more expensive.
+ I think  looking from the Thai students point of veiw to have their English teacher changed every term.
Not a good thing for Thai educations future in using  r as this seems to be TEFL aim.
Thailand is only cheap if you take into consideration western salaries.
Thai Max for a new TEFL 30K Baht, Min salary Rates UK approx 62,000 baht for working Mc donalds not teaching

Paul
 

Offline bomha

  • TEFLWatcher
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
  • Karma: +11/-2
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2007, 01:23:21 pm »
Okay Smeg, you proved the point that one can even get a CELTA in London for less than you might get a CELTA in Bangkok.  Can we agree that a prospective student should shop around, and not pay top dollar if they can get a good course (for what they intend to teach)? 

And maybe somebody in Australia or the US can get a good course back home - if they are back home.  Generally, courses in Thailand should be cheaper.  However there is no forumula like 50% or even 25% to compute how much cheaper the Thai course should be.

I notice the course at Cactus TEFL welcomes 20 year olds, and I think I saw another one that was soliciting 18 year olds.  Not university graduates, obviously.  Now - since everybody who has ever taken the CELTA talks as if it was more difficult than a Ph.D. in nuclear phsycs - I wonder why they are recruiting kids who haven't finished uni......and we are not talking about course providers in Thailand, but in the UK.

Offline Smeg

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: +2/-4
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2007, 01:40:22 pm »
Cactus TEFL is a TEFL info service run by one of the national newspapers in the UK. They don't run a TEFL course but advertise places that do.

I've spoken to them a few time and they seem very clued up and impartial, unlike, for example phoning ***** of Text and Talk who is slimy and uses weasel words to trick people, because he can, because he is in Thailand where consumer protection, especially of foreigners, is non-existent. I could not recommend that anyone hand cash over to these cowboys who run courses in Thailand.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2007, 05:45:22 pm by Andy »

Offline samvimes

  • Global Moderator
  • TEFLWatcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 131
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: How useful are TEFL Courses?
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2007, 02:46:15 pm »
It all depends where the trainer comes from.

If they have to ship a trainer over to Bangkok just to do the training, then it's going to cost more here!

 

Affiliated With the Better Living Quest