Topic: Schools Holding Original Degrees

[JackJohnson]

    I was talking to a friend who had interviewed at an International School and She told me the following:
1. The school holds all your original documents such a diplomas/degrees
2. If you quit before your contract is up, even after giving approiate notice, they will take away one months salary plus you forfeit a 4% savings that they subtract every paycheck.
   Has anybody ever heard of these rules? It seems kind of  "harsh" that they would have these things written in there contracts. I can see the conflicts already.

[los_teacher]

Total BS.

Tell her to tell the school the following:

1) She will hold their original charter and all financial documents. 
2) If they violate her contract in any way they need to pay her double the 4% savings deduction and an extra two months of pay.

[crocodile]

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for any teacher who would even consider accepting such crap.
I was offerred a job with this condition. I said NO. They withdrew the condition.
I guess that maybe most of my new colleagues have allowed themselves to be imprisoned this way.
They must be penniless and starving. But even then, there's lots of jobs. Bloody fools if they did!

[hero]

Does this "international school" have a name?

[samvimes]

Holding your degree and certificates/passport are all akin to a bonded labour situation i.e. a form of slavery!

Run very quickly away from any school or business that require this.

[hero]

Why on earth should/would they in any case confounds me - at least if not to possibly hold you to ransom at a later date!

Once they have applied for the TL and WP on your behalf then they shouldn't need them again ever (although possibly some employers may need them annually for extensions, depending on what kind of outfit/school it is I guess!)

[Thai Me Up]

Encourage your friend to post to teflwatch directly.  I don't like this second-hand reporting...

[maichai]

Any employer-employee relationship that begins in that manner is bound to end up even worse.  If I were your friend, I would have already moved on.  There are too many jobs out there for anyone to have to put up with such nonsense.  Total BS imho.

[bomha]

I will make the vote unanymous.  It's an outrage.  What next - they hold your passport and your driver's license?

[Thai Me Up]

Where is OP to fill in more details.  Did OP's friend take the job?  etc.

[Pavlovsdog]

My school wanted to keep the original of my teacher's license .  I politely but firmly said no and that was that!

[hero]

I've worked at places where they think nothing about hlding onto one's passport for months on end while they complete paperwork, they just have no idea!

[ladyteacher]

Once worked at a school were the  wannabee manager a fat aged know all who had just arrived in the L.O.S.  :readit:told the management they should hold all the teachers degrees and passports in the school safe .

The thinking behind his idea being no one could escape from the school without the school knowing about it .

The redneck failed miserably,perhaps he or the school wanted to copy documents for their own ends.
 

[hero]

Perhaps his next step would have been compulsory on site residence with barred windows and lock down, sorry lights out at 8.30!

[hero]

Why should it be any different here than back home.  If folks want to quit their jobs at no notice and disappear without telling anyone then that is their right to do so.  The job of management is to ask themselves why this happens.  Either the employment they offer ain't all that great for the employees or they are employing the wrong people.

It is common practice here in Thailand IME for piss-poor managers to load all of their problems onto their staff as some kind of solution.  Far from solving problems, this adds to and even creates problems.  Thus we see resentment of administrators and managers from even the most diligent and conscientious teachers.

It is not a problem unique to Thailand I'm sure.  But I think you would have to travel far and wide to find an industry or sector in the world where there is so much perceived need of emphasis on "forcing" folks to fulfill their contracts.

Blaming it on the "transient nature" of expats or particularly TEFLers is another common management ploy - again they are making no attempt to address any issues, merely shifting attention away from themselves and onto the teachers.

[Mods-Rockers]

Great points Hero and well put!

[samvimes]

Just because we are in another country does not mean that there is no rule of law; The rule of law requires both citizens and governments to be subject to known and standing laws. In the application of law there must be equality before the law. Laws should not be made in respect to particular people or institutions. Thailand also has the rule of law it's just that some schools think they are above the law/exempt/or too powerful and they can do whatever they like.

Deducting salary and holding it back to force (coerce) someone to fulfill their contract is against the law.

There are provisions that can be made legally within the contract to ensure that a contract is more likely to be fulfilled i.e. an annual bonus at the end of the contract which is dependent on contract completion (this is legal and keeping back salary is illegal)

Schools even though they employ on yearly contracts still have to pay severance pay and follow the labour law unless it can be proved that the worker is employed in a temporary position (most teachers are not employed in temporary positions)

A good lawyer could tear some of these schools apart given half the chance as they clearly breach contract and labor law and it makes you wonder whether they have actually bothered to take any legal advice from a professional.

Too many people are so desperate to stay and work that they will overlook the basic protections and rights that they are entitled to enjoy.

If you work without a contract you are putting yourself in a position where you can be taken advantage of.

[maichai]

Too many people are so desperate to stay and work that they will overlook the basic protections and rights that they are entitled to enjoy.

And by doing so they often put those who will not put up with such nonsense in the position of having to fight the battles that need fighting in educating owners and managers as to what is acceptable and what is not.

The "desperate" crew is at the heart of low wages and many other problems that exist in the world of TEFL and I have seen too many examples over the years in too many countries to believe I have it all wrong.

[Thai Me Up]

Why should it be any different here than back home.  If folks want to quit their jobs at no notice and disappear without telling anyone then that is their right to do so.  The job of management is to ask themselves why this happens.  Either the employment they offer ain't all that great for the employees or they are employing the wrong people.

I agree with this 100%, but Thais do not reflect and ask "why this happens?" when confronted either with loss of staff or looking at the results of a motorbike crash. It also seems to be a standing tradition to lie to foreign teachers and disregard verbal and written agreements.  Unfortunately, American employers do the same thing, so I believe it's up to every individual employee to draw his/her own line in the sand.  If the school refuses to provide non-imm B support, then I'd haul a** outta there.  If the school asks me to cover 5-10 classes/year as a period sub, I'll do it.  Not every issue is worthy of starting WWIII, but some issues are indeed deal breakers.

Certainly, if the school wants to hold your diploma, there is a way to finesse your way out of this.  "I keep my diploma in a beautiful frame in my room, please give it back," or stand there with a crowbar and say, "So sorry, which file cabinet do I start with?"