Topic: Thewpaingarm School in Bangkok

[Sadly-confused]

Your user moniker seems appropriate under the circumstances.

Possibly, but then again possibly not! I am indeed saddened that you choose to generalize against the whole population of this country based solely on your rather unfortunate experience with your family (both living and dead) in Issan. There again I am certainly not confused by your reaction, sad though it is, following the latter part of you PhD studies!

I am not interested in rising to your bait.

Nor by the looks of it are you interested in any form of debate that does not strictly follow your own set guidelines, many jarpies I know seem the same way, “play by my rules or I take my ball home”

Sorry.

I am not! Nor for that matter am I surprised!

Enjoy your life.

I always do, no ghosts in my garden dude!

[between myths]

Mr. Sadly-confused -- This is an important thread. I see your efforts at penis fencing with poster diaw as diminishing the dialogue. Getting a room or going PM with your little exercise seems more in keeping with the role of a mod. Please consider giving it a rest. Thank you, a concerned newbie

[Sadly-confused]

Mr. Sadly-confused -- This is an important thread. I see your efforts at penis fencing with poster diaw as diminishing the dialogue. Getting a room or going PM with your little exercise seems more in keeping with the role of a mod. Please consider giving it a rest. Thank you, a concerned newbie

Mr Between myths
Sorry you feel that way! The penis fencing (nice term) is however a side issue! The main issue is “This is an important thread.” My first question is; IS IT? What did we see? The pictures shown a bunch of adolescent, undereducated kids putting on a parody of a regime that has been dead some 60 years. It has been pointed out that similar parodies were performed by Monty Python some 30 years closer to the actual events and won international acclaim! And that was by a group of people who had lived through or at least had parents who had lived through the events in question!

You only have to check out the far right groups in Europe, and especially the states to see similar parades of Nazi emulating uniforms and paraphernalia, and that is by groups of people who know what it means. Here we have a group of kids putting on a show, possibly with little or no adult supervision.

What do we really have here? I like many others was appalled when I saw the story, But I like many others tempered how I felt about the show with an understanding that there was little that could be done to change it! Time cannot be put back and the show halted! One hopes that the farang teachers in place did do something to educate the students as to what the symbolism actually meant.

The other this we have is a small but very vocal group, who are baying for blood like the hounds of the Baskervilles gone mad! The are demanding that the school be shamed internationally, yeah like that will ever happen. If it did though, and knowing the Thai stubbornness for saving face, what do you honestly think would happen? I would bet baths of gold against baht coins that what we would see is hundreds of schools emulating this school and putting on similar parodies just so as to stick their noses up to the west!


There are times when you should wake them, but there are also times when the prudent thing to do is LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE!!!

[RobRoy]

And now a year after the event, everyone has an opinion.......

And yes, I'm at fault.  I looked at the pictures, read the comments from the teachers there and my initial reaction was, ah...over the top.  I was so shocked that I couldn't believe a school in any way, shape or form condone such an activity. 

Then I remembered where I was...in a culture where its just as offensive to touch or stand above a seniors head.  A culture that forgets all about the Japs visiting Thailand during WWII.  So, in my opinion, lets get realistic ladies and gentlemen.

Was the school trying to resurrect/condone/ or basically say Fascism is good?    I doubt it.

Was the school portraying Nazis as "cool" and if they did, did the students even understand?   I doubt it.

Lastly, a year after the event, what changes has this school event caused in Thai society, Nazi membership, or general acceptance of fascist beliefs?
None, would be my guess.

Get over it...Yes, it was in poor taste, yes it was even beyond poor taste, but what are the lasting affects of the event?   I work at the largest Uni in Thailand...haven't seen the place overrun with Nazis yet!

[bomha]

In the context of this thread, what do we mean by letting a rabid  dog lie sleeping, when in fact he's more vicious than the hounds of the Baskervilles?  This rabid dog killed six million Jews, about six million more Gentiles (especially Communists, gays, Gypsies, and TEACHERS!).  Is the school scheduled to repeat this abomination?  Did the farangs at this school let the rabid dog keep biting, without mentioning anything to the administration?

Next time this school puts on a skit at sports day, it would be a little bit less bad to stage a mock reenactment of Burma's most humiliating defeats of the Thais, complete with rapes of the Thai women.

[between myths]

A good parodist, comedian or satirist -- has a level of understanding and a knowledge of world history that these children and the "educators" responsible for them seem to lack. I would argue that what we see here may be better termed absurd and grotesque mimicry. Clumsily and unintelligently aping a truly horrible world event that resulted in millions of deaths merits shame. Though I doubt this site has the readership to bring any real "international shame" i compliment the effort. Ignoring some foolish behavior may be prudent but the institutionalized stupidity of the Thewpaingarm School that this thread appears to point out needs a bright light shined on it. The fact that other ignorant students, "educators" or administrators may react to this light by behaving similarly is no reason to fall silent, in my view. Stay calm. Stay focused. And embarrass these knuckle draggers until they stop this fucked up behavior they seem to view as educational.

[Thai Me Up]

between myths,
Welcome to the TW community.

Like you, I still cannot fathom the "aw shucks, it was a year ago, let sleeping dogs lie" response by teaching colleagues.  However, given that the SALARY is so sweet at Thewpaingarm, it's easy to overlook the Holocaust for that whopping 47K a month (tongue firmly planted in cheek).  I applaud the teacher who DID post the pictures...that was a step in the right direction, IMHO.

[RobRoy]

bomha,

IS there a sleeping dog, is it rabid, and did the Thais awaken the dog, rabid or not?  I'm not making excuses, but other than on the teaching community, what real affect has it on accepting fascism or the Nazis?  Other than offending pretty much all of the farangs in Thailand, was any Thai attitudes changed?  Did it increase their knowledge of Nazi atrocides?  NO, of course not, its just some dumbass thing a really stupid school did.

I'll make you a deal.  If you can show me that the Thai Nazi party membership/party sympathisers, etc has increased in the last year, I'll change my opinion.  Other than that, its just something as worthless today to get upset about as it was a year ago.   It really is ignorance on the schools part.

Let it be a reminder to teachers that, at times, we need to say this is over the line, vocally to the school management. 

[between myths]

I must say that I think looking for an increase in Thai Nazi Party membership as a means of judging this event eludes the point. I find myself wondering what are the educational values of an institution of learning that encourages such behavior?

It would be interesting to get an inside perspective. I see the school is currently recruiting. Perhaps an email or phone call could be made inviting input from a school administrator or at least pointing out this thread and asking for a comment.   

[Sadly-confused]

Well I for one second RR’s sentiments!

In the context of this thread, what do we mean by letting a rabid  dog lie sleeping, when in fact he's more vicious than the hounds of the Baskervilles?  This rabid dog killed six million Jews, about six million more Gentiles (especially Communists, gays, Gypsies, and TEACHERS!).  Is the school scheduled to repeat this abomination?  Did the farangs at this school let the rabid dog keep biting, without mentioning anything to the administration?

“when in fact he's more vicious” Sorry Bomha but get real! Reading the above rant you seem to be implying that the parody put on by these kids is some sort of reincarnation of the horror that was Nazi Germany! If the kids had had any inclination of what they were doing then I might have some agreement with you, BUT remember this is Thailand, these kids and their Thai teachers have difficulty understanding or just plain remembering their own history let alone something that happened half a world away! I do hope, as I have stated before and indeed others also, that the farang in place did do and for that matter are still doing something to show the staff and kids the error of their ways, But frankly the only rabid dogs I see on this thread are those baying for the schools head on a platter!

Next time this school puts on a skit at sports day, it would be a little bit less bad to stage a mock reenactment of Burma's most humiliating defeats of the Thais, complete with rapes of the Thai women.
 

Duh what? Try looking at the Thais view of that war, it differs dramatically from that seen by just about every man and his ferret around the world. But try telling a Thai that and guess what…

A good parodist, comedian or satirist -- has a level of understanding and a knowledge of world history that these children and the "educators" responsible for them seem to lack.

Totally agree! Do you think we can change that? Hardly!

Though I doubt this site has the readership to bring any real "international shame"

Again, totally agree!

Ignoring some foolish behavior may be prudent but the institutionalized stupidity of the Thewpaingarm School that this thread appears to point out needs a bright light shined on it.

If there is one thing that the Thais do really well, its “institutionalized stupidity” But again I ask, do you think the efforts of a few farang will change that?

The fact that other ignorant students, "educators" or administrators may react to this light by behaving similarly is no reason to fall silent, in my view. Stay calm. Stay focused. And embarrass these knuckle draggers until they stop this fucked up behavior they seem to view as educational.

yeah and terms like “knuckle draggers” is going to go a long way towards rationalizing with the Thai about this subject.
The world does not care what happens any more in SE Asia! It watched idly as Pol Pot raped his own country, its doing the square root of bugger all about the real shit happening in Burma, as we sit here and throw hissy fits about, what can only be described as a stupid fuckup by a bunch of school kids and their equally unknowing teachers!

[RobRoy]

Sadly

Great words!  Absolutely too fffing true.

[between myths]

I find myself reacting strongly to this. Is my reaction pragmatic or efficatious? No it isnt. Does this bother me? No it doesnt.

What this school did (does? will do again?) is shamefully stupid at best.

Sometimes it is just so fucking insane on planet thailand that i have to speak/write to stay sane. This place/culture reminds me of a species of amphibian that has been trapped in a dark cave for so many generations that none of them have eyes any more. They have no use for them...and it is the sighted that are the freaks.   

[Nemesis]

I have to disagree. I've publicized this thread for one big reason. It needs to get out in the open. It needs to be aired. Unfortunately, the schools needs to air its dirty laundry if they are to feel any shame. I read this thread and I think we all can agree that the school does need to be ashamed of itself.

Bomha says some good truth. ... They extremely if an Islamic school decided to dress up as Jamal Islamiyah and start celebrating the death of Thai buddhists.   I heard it again and again in Thailand, you must understand. Thai people feel things more than farangs.

I'm upset because it's another typical case of Thai hypocrisy. I don't care if the kids need to be educated about the holocaust, I don't even care if you want to debate whether it happened or not.(Not in this thread though) What I do care about is the fact that we as teachers have to deal with the absurdity of a educational system that thinks its ok to do shameful things. It's an educational system run by adminsitrators who show they are crude and thoughtless in public and don't expect any fallout. Why? Because Thai people are caring people, we must understand THEM no matter how uncaring they appear. 

They put farangs on TV and show them always saying how nice Thailand is. The food is good, the weather is good, thai culture is good. That's called being polite. I'm sorry, if I found a tourist in Afghanistan and I was an Afghani tv reporter, they'd probably say the same things to me. It's called being polite. But Thais use it as proof of their superiority.

I don't want the school admin's head on a platter, but I would like to see a contrite school admin apologize publicly about this. Saying they did wrong and we're uncaring towards other people's feelings. Now, do you think that could ever happen in Thailand? Have you ever heard a Thai person say they did wrong and were uncaring towards a farang' feelings?

Enough of a rant.

[Nick2007]

Nick,
Thanks for posting those pics.

Can I ask you if there was/has been any fallout at your school from the on-line publication of the Nazi celebration pics?  After the event, did you or any group of farang teachers approach the admin and voice your horror at the event?  We're all armchair quarterbacking here, but I'd like to know what the follow-up was to Nazi day at your school.

As others have already posted previously, the school is not one single unit. It's a very big school and it's divided up into different seperate parts. The parade and fancy dress show (which was nearly a year ago at this stage) was organised by a part of the school that the foreign staff have no connection with. None of the foreign teachers in our section have any contact with the Thai staff who put this together. The foreign teachers don't even know who the specific people were who chose the theme. 
The children who were in the dance and parade are not taught by the foreign teachers. The admin we deal with had nothing to do with this.

What did we see? The pictures shown a bunch of adolescent, undereducated kids putting on a parody of a regime that has been dead some 60 years. It has been pointed out that similar parodies were performed by Monty Python some 30 years closer to the actual events and won international acclaim! And that was by a group of people who had lived through or at least had parents who had lived through the events in question!

You only have to check out the far right groups in Europe, and especially the states to see similar parades of Nazi emulating uniforms and paraphernalia, and that is by groups of people who know what it means. Here we have a group of kids putting on a show, possibly with little or no adult supervision.

Good assessment.

One hopes that the farang teachers in place did do something to educate the students as to what the symbolism actually meant.

As has been said already, something was done.

There are times when you should wake them, but there are also times when the prudent thing to do is LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE!!!

 its just some dumbass thing a really stupid school did.

Common sense prevails.

I'll make you a deal.  If you can show me that the Thai Nazi party membership/party sympathisers, etc has increased in the last year, I'll change my opinion.  Other than that, its just something as worthless today to get upset about as it was a year ago.   It really is ignorance on the schools part.

Pure and simple.
 Ignorance is the real problem here, which is something that the mob baying for blood don't seem so concerned about.

What I do care about is the fact that we as teachers have to deal with the absurdity of a educational system that thinks its ok to do shameful things. It's an educational system run by adminsitrators who show they are crude and thoughtless in public and don't expect any fallout. Why? Because Thai people are caring people, we must understand THEM no matter how uncaring they appear. 

 

They put farangs on TV and show them always saying how nice Thailand is. The food is good, the weather is good, thai culture is good. That's called being polite. I'm sorry, if I found a tourist in Afghanistan and I was an Afghani tv reporter, they'd probably say the same things to me. It's called being polite. But Thais use it as proof of their superiority.

[diaw]

I truly wonder if many, or most, in fact, of the Thai students, or their teachers, understand the significance of what Nazism means to a western person?

Somehow, I doubt that their sense of morality & right-wrong, stretches that far into the Western psyche.

It was probably the 'bright idea' of someone who liked the idea of the Nazi symbolism & 'fashion', rather than someone with intrinsically evil intent.

The fundamental question to ask could be: "Will a Neo-fascist ideology suddenly begin sweeping through Thailand?"

The answer to that will, or should, determine your level of response, or otherwise.