Topic: Agencies... what to look out for

[Bruce]

In the last several weeks I have been fored to become somewhat of an expert on laws regarding agencies so, in the hopes that this might benefit someone, I thought I would post what I have recently come to know.

There are really two types of agencies; agencies that employ you directly and agencies that just farm you out to schools.  Both can be successful under the right circumstances.  Just be aware of some basic facts:

1.  The organization that hires you is the one that sponsors your Work Permit.  If you think you work for the agency but your WP is issued buy the school, you are wrong.

2.  If the school issues your WP, THEY are responsible for paying you and the agency should not accept money on your behalf.  The school should pay you directly.  If th agency does not pay you, you and the school will be forced to take them to CIVIL (not Labor) court.  Messy and long.  The agency could just run off with the money and they do not owe you anything nor do they need to comply with any labor laws--they are NOT your employer! 

In fact, it is actually ILLEGAL for the agency to accept your pay.  If they do, inform the school of the danger and potential liability to them and you!

If your agency does plan to employ you directly remember a few facts to help you spot trouble:

Thai companies cannot sponsor non-Thais easilly.  They must have registered capital of at least 2 million baht and 7 Thai employees for every non-thai.  if you do not see LOADS of Thais then they probably cannot really sponsor you.  begin to ask questions.

Thai schools can sponsor teachers easily however they can only have one teacher for every classroom at their school.  if their school has 5 classrooms they can sponsor 5 teachers.

There are some good agencies out there but there are some really bad ones too.  But the biggest thing to rememer is that the organization that sponsored your WP is yor employer, and that might not be the agency.

[Thai Me Up]

Bruce,
Thanks for that.  I was told about the 2 million baht capital reserve requirement and 7-to-1 thai-to-farang ratio by an honest agency I had worked for when I asked if they could provide me a letter of intent for a non-immigrant B visa.  Sad, because this rule will ring the death knell for small agencies as far as "legal" employers.

To continue your list of what to look out for...

ajarn.com job listings promising big salaries with grandiose-sounding agency or foundation names but vaguely-worded job descriptions.  When I've emailed enquiries to these agencies asking for physical address information or even a URL describing the agency, I receive evasive answers:  "our web site isn't ready yet" or "we're in Pattaya area."  DON'T mail scans of your diploma, passport or police clearance to these scammers.

[Bruce]

Thnx for the additions, Thai me up.  I have heard of agencies holding diplomas for randsom.

One more thing--if you are working ILLEGALLY (no work permit) you have no recourse with Labor.  You are an illegal worker.

[Mods-Rockers]

Thnx for the additions, Thai me up.  I have heard of agencies holding diplomas for randsom.

One more thing--if you are working ILLEGALLY (no work permit) you have no recourse with Labor.  You are an illegal worker.

Not quite true Bruce, whilst I agree you are an illegal worker, there have been cases recently where the MOL have sided with the illegal worker to go after the illegal employer who is, after all the more flagrant breaker of the Law!

Those working for employers who do not obtain WP's for them should go to the MOL themselves and report it! That way they cover their own asses and drop the illegal employer in the doodoo! OK that may mean losing that job, but that is far better than losing your freedom, and may well go a long way towards improving everyone working conditions.

BTW Bruce would you care to comment on how many foriegners your company employs and ALSO how many Thai!

[anyonefortennis]

.............remember a few facts to help you spot trouble:

If anybody wants to read up on what to look out for in a bad agency, take a trip to the HOS and check out our old friends at AmeriThai.

[Andy]

I think Amerithai's changed its name?

[hero]

Good info Bruce.  My first job was with an infamous three letter agency (ELT),  They don't provide WPs for employees, because they can't as they have no assets to speak of and only a handful of Thai staff that they actually employ.

They do offer every teacher a WP at interview, but they will only provide them for a select few who work in one of the government schools that they farm teachers out to.  Yet, contrary to the way Bruce tells us it should work, the school pays the agency, who pay the teachers (anything up to 3 weeks in arrears).  Make no mistake, with ELT you are employed by the agency as they hold the (WORTHLESS in effect) contract and they routinely subject teachers to working weekends and evening to make up 100 contact hours.  They even have the nerve to limit the number of contact hours each teacher does in the regular school week to ensure they have plenty of staff with hours to make up that they can send to their backwater cowboy English language schools (EnglishPlus) and even cajole teachers into teaching their ridiculous cowboy TEFL school.

Now, this thread is about agencies in general - but ELT are a lesson in what you should not accept.  As Bruce points out, should anything go wrong (illegal firing to save holiday pay, transferring from school to school miles apart at next to no notice, reneging on overtime or bonus payments - and ELT routinely do all of these!) then you will not have a leg to stand on.  If you are one of the lucky few that have a WP, good luck with single-handedly trying to get a government school to accept liability (not impossible, but most of them have connections they can pull to some extent - often more so than private schools and they are government institutions ultimately!) and if you don't have a WP then ELT have even threatened teachers with "shopping" them to the Immigration department!

There are great agencies in Bangkok, I have worked with teachers who are "properly" farmed out to schools by agencies - whereby the school pays a fee to the agency and the school basically employs the teacher.  To some extent this is even a better situation than working directly for a school as the benefits should be equivalent and if things don't work out then the agency can always help you to relocate to another school. 

From my experience, teachers working for agencies should expect nothing less than equivalence with teachers employed by schools - WPs, holiday pay, 12-month contracts, sick pay etc.  Unfortunately the reality of most agencies I have encountered is nowhere near this level!

[Thighlander]

I would look out for people who state their degree(s), but fail to mention the institution where they were obtained.

I would make some of these lowlife scum pay me in advance; after my paperwork was completed at their expense.

[Thai Me Up]

hero,
Since you've named a lousy agency, could you also list some "great agencies?"

[Bruce]

Here in Thailand TEFL International is hosted by a Thai school.  We have about 5 Western emloyees and 20 Thais.

[Mods-Rockers]

Here in Thailand TEFL International is hosted by a Thai school.  We have about 5 Western emloyees and 20 Thais.

Well 20 thai employees would entitle you to employ just 2 farang legally. So what is the status of the ABOUT 3 others?

[Thai Me Up]

Mods-Rockers,
Your math is a little off.  20 thai employees = 2-6/7ths farang

I believe Thais view filipinos and other people of color as fractional human beings.  I'm thinking that 6/7ths would mean 2 Filipino hires or 3 Indians.   

[Mods-Rockers]

Now that is not nice, and may give some people completely the wrong idea about you!

Actually I was thinking about this and 20/7 = 2.857, so what constiture 0.857 of a teacher? Could the 'one armed man' from the Fugative be legally employed as 0.857 of a human? or would he need to have a kidney removed as well? maybe a testicle, it does bring some interesting visuals to the imagination if thinking about a tefl course with Bruce.

Also if only two of the employees are technically legal, and you have the misfortues to study for your TEFL cert there under one or more of the illegals, does that then mean that technically your TEFL cert will also be void as you studied on an illegal course?

[Geekboy]

I think there are different rules for companies and schools when it comes to balance. Agencies are companies, TEFL International is partnered with a Thai school.

I worked for an agency that registered itself as a legitimate school. Once it was legitimate, with their two thai employees, they had 6 farang teachers on work permits, all legal.

[Thai Me Up]

Mods-Rockers,
Well, if you TEFL train under an illegal, then you're a "bastard teacher."  That's the technical term I believe.   

As far as amputations and what constitutes a whole human being, if we can count each arm, leg and testicle individually, then we have sixths.  I propose that we count the head as an appendage which would give us 7/7ths.  Therefore, a company could employ Hitler as a TEFL instructor if they needed 6/7ths farang, but the "sieg heil" thing could be a problem if he couldn't learn to wai properly.