Topic: falling wages

[anyonefortennis]

Just been looking around various teaching job boards and it seems to me the wages (outside of Bangkok) are not remaining static, they're actually sliding.

It appears more schools are offering 25,000 than last year and also that more schools are hiring NN teachers than last year, or am I being paraniod?   

[westernfarang]

I agree, Phil at ajarn says best few weeks ever, but I think that salaries are falling fast, more at 25 to 35k then ever before

[RobRoy]

I agree also...seems to me 3-4 years ago it was 35-40.  NN teachers are cheaper and put up with the BS better than native speakers.

[Thighlander]

Wages have gotten lower.  Tell them to go jump into a crocodile infested, lake.

[Mods-Rockers]

Someone somewhere is making a mint out of all this, I only worked as a convo teacher for one semester in a government school and that was through an agency. The agency charged the school 6-700 baht an hour for a teacher, yet only paid us 300-350. big profits for the agency for doing very little. This might explain why that agency is in the HoS.

The school though was on a bigger scam, they received, as I understood the situation, 500 baht per student per semester from the government to hire native speakers. And if that was not enough they also charged the parents 400 baht per semester for classes with a native speaker. I taught 20 hours a week (all different classes) with an average class size of 45, that works out to:

2*20*45*900=1,620,000 baht per year income for the school per teacher.

2*20*32*700=896,000 baht per year for a farang teacher through an agency. So nearly 725,000 baht a year profit per farang per year. Directors new benz?

13*35,000=455,000 baht per year salary for a locally (non agency) recruited farang teacher, the 13 is assuming that a bonus month is paid! That’s a whopping 1,165,000 baht per teacher per year profit for the school.

Ok these figure are some 5 years out of date now, I have heard that the government does not pay the extra funds for a farang anymore (unconfirmed) though I dare say that students are more than likely charged more nowadays.

So why are we seeing an apparent drop in wages? Could it simply be GREED?

[anyonefortennis]

MR, greed is clearly a big part of it but unsurprising if you see the basic wage of a Thai admin in a gov school out in the sticks..............but that's another topic.

What I don't get right now is the gov are tightening the reg's to work here, so you'd expect that to result in a better standard of teacher (ignoring all degree v non degree arguements for now), and therefore a better wage.........right?

I think I came across the answer earlier today. I saw on ajarn that the special government project for schools is hiring 500 teachers, tefl international have got their special 'Thai Adventure' for new grads (or nearly grads) and media kids is hiring god knows how many teachers  - I guess it's these projects that we have to thank for keeping the government school / university wages so bloody low. And if companies / agencies continue to do deals with local provincial governments then I guess the wages will continue to slide as they look to maximize their profit margin.   

I'd be interested in other peoples thoughts, apart from greed and 'special projects' is there anything else keeping the salaries so bloody low? 

[Speaksoftly]

I think it's a sign that more schools will be hiring illegal workers or non-native speakers.  Or are they pretending that for 25K they're also offering a work permit?

[lone ranger]

It is clear agencies ie TI are getting the best of both worlds, they are getting the TEFL course fee from the student and a placement fee of around 30K per teacher once they have graduated from the likes of Media Kids...not a bad deal.
What TI are doing in Thailand is turning over their teachers every 4 months or 1 semester. They are also making a need by firing their teachers near the holidays so they don't pay holiday pay, they then put their new recruits into the jobs at the begining of the new term and "Bobs your uncle" it all starts again......

TI have worked out that the teachers have no option but to accept it, if they don't pay what can the teacher do with no money to take them to the labour court?

Its a sorry state of affairs but thats how TI are using the very teachers they pledge to help......Bastards!

[ajarnnormal]

Myself, I would never go to an agency to get full time work. I have used an agency to get evening Corporate work. An agency is in the business to make money and who do they make it off? You and the school. If a school takes on an agency to get their teachers then the school pays a good price for the service. there are some schools that take on staff themselves and use an agency. They use an agency mainly because they can not get the staff to fill the positions themselves. In my time teaching in Thailand it seems that the reason they can not get teachers is because they have a bad reputation or they pay low wages. i know of some government schools that try to get staff first then go to an agency at the death. There is a pool of teachers out there and it is getting smaller all the time. I am waiting to see what the next term brings as it gets closer and schools start to panic with no staff. then the wages will go up I'm sure. My advice is don't take the low paid jobs let them squirm and sweat.

[anyonefortennis]

AjN, I don't think the wages will go up the more desperate they get, afterall the money has probably already been allocated to a new Beamer or a jolly to the States 

I think we are already seeing the schools tatics, a shifting of the goalposts, I've started to notice more jobs that state "a two year associate degree".

The problem is that for every teacher who ignores the low paying job, there is one who will take it and until this changes then the wages will remain low.

If we could nuke the shitty end of the tefl course providers market the hell outta of Thailand (or the world for that matter) it would be a start, I put a large amount of the blame for low wages (world wide) in the TEFL industry well and truly at the feet of cowboy course providers who will let any old Harry take their course. As many of the course providers also place their trainees in schools after course completion things aren't going to improve until there is a shortage of tefl trainees to fill the jobs or as stated before we wipe out the cowboy course providers   

[samvimes]

Well it's up to the employers. I won't employ someone with with just a TEFL International certificate or a text and talk certificate.

I will accept a CELTA or Trinity cert though. Sorry to say I don't trust the quality of the courses that are run here.

[Mods-Rockers]

Why be sorry Sam to me its just an honest opinion that is widely held

[samvimes]

I'm sorry for the people who fork out their hard earned money for a piece of toilet paper....

[anyonefortennis]

.............and are often under the assumption that the course they are doing is held in high regard both here and overseas

[bomha]

If I were hiring in Europe, I'd value a world-known cert.  If I were hiring in Thailand, I'd value a Thai-known cert.  If I were hiring in Thailand for a top-tier international school, I would not even care about a TEFL cert.  I do not think that one four week indoctrination course is infinitely better than the average Thai four week course, but some are trash.  First, you ask for documents and second, the interview.  Third and finally, the demonstration lesson.  I would not trash an applicant merely because the applicant went to SEE or T&T but I would be doubtful about some new fly by night place I had never heard of.

I went to an agency once, for part time work, and after seeing my resume (with copies of certifications), they had me to do a grammar test.  In spite it being an American test, I did well, over 94%.  I did a good interview.  Where I earned my TEFL certificate, before I taught in Thailand for several years, was not materiel.