Topic: Debate on the HoS

[Mods-Rockers]

As some will remember when I was a mod I was not an avid supporter of the
HoS, it did however have the support of the majority and thus I went along with it.

There has been a lot of talk recently regarding criteria for being removed for the HoS, and this seems to have divided the regular users of this forum along a line drawn in the sand!

Those that want schools to be removed seem to be opting for a clean slate regardless of outstanding issues, whilst those against seem to be opting for a slate cleans of all outstanding issue. Is there a way out of this conundrum? Could we all bang our collective heads together and come up with an acceptable solution to the issue.

I have therefore started this thread in the hope that we can have sensible ideas put forward that can be analyzed to see if there is a way forward. In keeping with this idea I shall give my own idea for a solution:

Schools are put into the HoS because there is a list of offences that the school has committed, fair enough. If then a school has shown willingness to make changes and many if not all of the bad points have been rectified then surely they would be entitled to some sort of parole. I would suggest a secondary HoS (parole) where is the school is paroled they would sit for a period of say 18 months (this will ensure that a major and a minor cull period are covered) and after that time if no serious offences have been notified and confirmed then the school should be out on license!

The parole hearing should be by way of a debate thread whereby all members of this forum can have their say, followed by a vote by poll! I would suggest that the vote be limited to one vote per user and also be limited to users with a reasonable post count to be set by admin, this should help to alleviate any jerrymandering (sp) by interested parties setting up multiple nicks!

Frequency of a parole board should also be limited to say one attempt per semester to prevent hogging of the board by schools trying to get out simply by boring us all to death with repetition!

Well that’s my idea in a nutshell, and I fully agree that there are many rough edges to be ironed out, however its merely a suggestion and I would hope that other would come up with suggestions of their own or possibly ideas to improve my suggestion.

Gentlemen, and indeed the lady members, I would ask that this thread stays within the borders of decorum as befits a good debate , and I hope that we may, as a thinking group come up with an acceptable solution to this vexed issue!

[anyonefortennis]

Mods, this is soooooooooo difficult, what is it - you canna please all of the people all of the time.

I think first off we need to determine what offences should actually put a school in the hos, perhaps the school could be sentenced at the time of entry.

For example I for one would put AmeriThai (who I defended at the beginning of the thread......oppps) in the hall for life, but perhaps some schools with minor (in comparison) misdemeanours should get a mere 12 month sentence. At the end of their sentence if nothing new has come to light then set them free. 

I think that there should be some kind of release mechanism in place for schools to exit the hall, after all we need to ensure that the information regarding the schools is up to date.

I would personally do away with the hos, it causes too much bickering for my liking and I reckon an up to date thread about problem schools is sufficient. What perhaps would be more useful would be a guide for avoiding the pitfalls / spotting dangers when looking for a new employer, perhaps we could write it……….1) beware of caning during assembly!     

[Mods-Rockers]

Mods, this is soooooooooo difficult, what is it - you canna please all of the people all of the time.

Yip, Never said this was going to be easy!

I think first off we need to determine what offences should actually put a school in the hos, perhaps the school could be sentenced at the time of entry.

For example I for one would put AmeriThai (who I defended at the beginning of the thread......oppps) in the hall for life, but perhaps some schools with minor (in comparison) misdemeanours should get a mere 12 month sentence. At the end of their sentence if nothing new has come to light then set them free. 

nothing new? What about if they are still repeating the original offences?

I think that there should be some kind of release mechanism in place for schools to exit the hall, after all we need to ensure that the information regarding the schools is up to date.

see above!

I would personally do away with the hos, it causes too much bickering for my liking and I reckon an up to date thread about problem schools is sufficient. What perhaps would be more useful would be a guide for avoiding the pitfalls / spotting dangers when looking for a new employer, perhaps we could write it……….1) beware of caning during assembly! 

I think this could be an excellent idea, maybe a new thread, only problem I foresee in the idea is the principle of ‘sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander,’ are they necessarily the same? Take BCC, many find the 20k ‘ransom’ abhorrent while others find it an acceptable condition of employment.

Getting rid of the HoS was not in the remit for this thread, but I suppose it could be! I was never in favour of it, especially at first, but I do ask myself has it caused any improvements? Did BCC do its apparent about face due to being in the hall?

[anyonefortennis]

Well, if the hos remained then for repeat offenders.....throw em back in the slammer and double the sentence.

As for the goose and the gander, fair enough. I guess if it were a simple listing of things to beware of, hidden danagers etc. and then people could make their own minds up.

I do think a lot of problems could be solved if a simple warning is issued, along the lines of "for gods sake read yere bleedin contract before signing the bugger".

[Mods-Rockers]

true about contracts, but then how many are forced by circumstances to sign without the chance to read properly

[anyonefortennis]

I think you're right about people not reading their contract, it seems that some behavioural norms go outta the window when people leave their home country..........the amount of teachers we've had turn up for interviews dressed in shorts, sandals and baseball caps is unreal, occassionally with a couple of BG's in tow for good measure.

I'm sure if people showed the same common sense regarding employment has they do at home many problems could be avoided, just be a little more vigilant - that's not to say that some people don't get screwed despite being careful.

[Andy]

Red, Green, Yellow, we all know those colors, like dudes, we had this debate back in December. Then, we decided that the Hall of Shame would limit a school's membership to 1 year. One of three things then happens.

1) The school continues to yank its teachers around. That school stays in the Hall of Shame for another year.

2) The school quits molestin' their teachers, but doesn't make any changes to fix past wrongs, that school enters into a special yellow list. Can't remember the name off the top of my head.

3) The school quits freakin' their teachers and makes things right by teachers, those schools get full out and its notated in their Hall of Shame listing that they are out of it for good.

It seems to this OG that BCC is headin' to at least the yellow list.   

[Mods-Rockers]

Thanks Andy, I remember that thread, in fact its a little further down the page here! it did not seem at the time that anything was resolved as someone who will remain nameless hijacked the thread and turned it towards a certain group of schools that starts with a S and ends in arasas!

[Thighlander]

I think you're right about people not reading their contract

People not even being given a copy of their contract was one of the complaints against the HOS School in question.

[airpuka]

I really love the HOS because any school in it i wont work for, simple as that this is one of the best ways to get back at a bad school is by recomending them for the hall of shame, i posted a lot about sarasat and it finally became a shame school, i love how teflwatch has the BALLS to yell out looud "THIS SCHOOL SUCKS! DONT TEACH THERE!"

[Krungsri]

I really love the HOS because any school in it i wont work for, simple as that this is one of the best ways to get back at a bad school is by recomending them for the hall of shame, i posted a lot about sarasat and it finally became a shame school, i love how teflwatch has the BALLS to yell out looud "THIS SCHOOL SUCKS! DONT TEACH THERE!"

Airpuka, clean up your act.  Venomous and illiterate posts like this are part of the reason the HoS has so little credibility.

[ajarnnormal]

Krungsri. You have a lovely way with words.

[freedom fighter]

I'm loving the sentencing for a period of time and I'm also in favour of a parole system for those schools trying to reform.  Adopt the justice system!

If a school shows consistent signs of reform then put them on a secondary 'Parole' list for a period of time.  If they keep a clean sheet then let them out.

Bad schools must be highlighted and punished but let's not condemn forever those schools that have served their time and reformed i.e. changed their admin staff.

FF.

[bomha]

Am I am pedant if I request some upper case letters on an acronym, so that HoS or HOS does not look like the American slang for whores?

I think Andy has already clarified the red light district, and the yellow and green light districts.

I like the idea of a Hall of Shame.  It is not how the Thais would do it.  It is the "Hall of Loss of Face".  It is like the Mexicans when they say "Ya, basta!" which I think means "Too much already!"

[retiredstillteaching]

The Teflwatch Hall of Shame always has had great credibility, impact, efficacy and consequence. The power and effect of a school being inducted into the HoS is so mighty that the Teflwatchers who hate it, as well as the infernal schools inducted into it, will and do say anything about a teacher(s) or former teacher(s) who posts to rightly and duly expose a school.

Face the facts: When a school sucks, it sucks, period.

BTW, when a school spends a lengthy time in the HoS, such as a year without anything positive being said of it(except by its own managers and operatives), what are we to think?   

[Mods-Rockers]

Oh now, and what school would that be namtok, AKA pibthong, AKA veritas, AKE yanqui, AKA retiredcomewhatever? Let me guess.......ummmmmm..... extra sugar? eh no! Sarsaparilla ekithump? Ummm no ! am I getting close?
GO ON GIVE US ALL A CLUE!

Sems to me that, despite your claims to have put this 4 year old incident behind you, its still a burr up your ass and cannot be left behind!

I really do feel a deep sense of pity for you nowadays, you will go to your grave a sad old man worrying about a minor incident that has, in reality, ruined your life! Well not so much the incident per se, but your abnormal reaction to it!